Pilot enriched math and social studies classes in MCPS MS

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Enriched Math - very little homework - just started doing projects. Projects look interesting so far. DC is engaged and enjoying it but still breezing through it (although not as much as he is breezing through non-enriched english and world studies, having missed the cut-off for world studies). That doesn't seem to be the case for many of the kids judging from the offers of retakes of quizzes and my child's (admittedly spotty) reports.

Can you give us some info about the projects? Thank you!

Ok - so a group project, and, admittedly, I haven't actually seen it - but it's buying a taco truck and figuring out what to sell, the prices, how to design it, etc.

My kid recently did a sales campaign (design, ads, pricing/discounts to move product in different scenarios, taxes, etc) on a product the group picked based on research.

That sounds like more fun than the worksheets in regular IM but not particularly enriching in terms of content.

I would be sorely disappointed if this is what considered enrichment in middle school math.

The unit is on proportional relationships and percentages, what would you suggest as a group project? The other poster mentioned a taco truck which also seems to be an appropriate project.

My kid also had individual challenge questions on the same topic. My kid is bored by worksheets so I think this is good project to apply mathematical concept to real world.

There is absolutely no need to have a group project for math. It is a waste of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There is absolutely no need to have a group project for math. It is a waste of time.

Why do you think that a group project in math is a waste of time?

[Anonymous]

Re large class sizes: Principals were told who to put into these classes by central office (originally). Principal with 33 kids assigned had choice to have 1 large section, or two sections. Principal could not have 2 15 person sections, if math classes typically 27-30. Principal would have to add high achieving students s/he identified to fill up 2nd class. Instead, principal went with 1 large class to avoid conflict/hassle of identifying extra kids.

[Anonymous]

My kids had IM at their HGC before 2.0. IM was designed to be an enriched course for advanced kids who would otherwise be ready for Algebra, but who were really young. It was also a prerequisite of Algebra at TPMS.

Basically the sequence could be:

Math A - Math B - Algebra (non-magnet)
Math A - Math B - IM - Algebra

I couldn't find a link to the old pathways K-12, but there's a graphic of the different middle-school sequences on page 8 of this old course bulletin.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/robertfrostms/departments/2011-2012%2520ROBERT%2520FROST%2520COURSE%2520BULLETIN.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjkisuMg__dAhWhq1kKHVtMDQ0QFjAFegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw09EFnXypvKxRC7NjINhggY

As I recall, the old unit had a major section devoted to set theory. It also worked with modular math and non-base 10 numbering systems. There may have been other enriched topics, but those are the main ones I remember.

For comparison's sake here are links to both the old version of IM amd the new version:

Old (pre 2.0):

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/math/middle/investigations/Unit1.aspx

New (2.0):

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/math/middle/investigations/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is absolutely no need to have a group project for math. It is a waste of time.

Why do you think that a group project in math is a waste of time?

I also think it's generally a waste of time as implemented in schools, but I believe it could be very valuable if designed correctly. Most of the projects (i.e the examples others brought up of their kids bringing home in the thread) involve a lot of wasted time, and very little math (whatever math is used to calculate prices, money, etc. is very basic, and there are no ideas/concepts that are valuable, ideas which would show kids a neat way of applying the math to real life). I think it's not easy to come up with good projects at the lower levels, and that is why it's so critical to get curriculum developers who actually majored in science/math/engineering to be the ones making the curriculum. Most of the "educators" who come up with the curriculum and projects are not qualified to do this having, no relevant experience, hence the boring everyday math type projects (which incidentally can kill kids interest in the subject if they are perceived as basic, and/or too much focused on calculation, and no neat ideas to discover/explore).

These things may be fine for many kids in schools if they are not too advanced, but for the brightest ones (who also tend to get bored more easily), the projects have to engage in a deeper way (beyond just having kids talk, and/or come up with something creative, etc. but which doesn't involve much math). My opinion is that a good project gets to the point quickly by presenting a problem to solve which does not initially suggest to kids a path to the solution. The problem has to be interesting, draw the kids in, have many different ways to explore it/attack it, and have one or more neat mathematical ideas and/or extensions of that math topic that makes kids see an "aha" moment once they figure out a strategy for solving it. Essentially when one thinks of a good puzzle and approaches for solving it, that should be the same type of experience kids have when doing a math project together. At the end of the project the kids should feel enlightened in some way and have seen a new way to think/apply the ideas they learned.

I believe the bulk of math group projects given in schools are not challenging enough and do not contain many of the above properties. As a result they often turn into a tedious, boring, and time consuming task that doesn't feel interesting to the advanced kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is absolutely no need to have a group project for math. It is a waste of time.

Why do you think that a group project in math is a waste of time?

I also think it's generally a waste of time as implemented in schools, but I believe it could be very valuable if designed correctly. Most of the projects (i.e the examples others brought up of their kids bringing home in the thread) involve a lot of wasted time, and very little math (whatever math is used to calculate prices, money, etc. is very basic, and there are no ideas/concepts that are valuable, ideas which would show kids a neat way of applying the math to real life). I think it's not easy to come up with good projects at the lower levels, and that is why it's so critical to get curriculum developers who actually majored in science/math/engineering to be the ones making the curriculum. Most of the "educators" who come up with the curriculum and projects are not qualified to do this having, no relevant experience, hence the boring everyday math type projects (which incidentally can kill kids interest in the subject if they are perceived as basic, and/or too much focused on calculation, and no neat ideas to discover/explore).

These things may be fine for many kids in schools if they are not too advanced, but for the brightest ones (who also tend to get bored more easily), the projects have to engage in a deeper way (beyond just having kids talk, and/or come up with something creative, etc. but which doesn't involve much math). My opinion is that a good project gets to the point quickly by presenting a problem to solve which does not initially suggest to kids a path to the solution. The problem has to be interesting, draw the kids in, have many different ways to explore it/attack it, and have one or more neat mathematical ideas and/or extensions of that math topic that makes kids see an "aha" moment once they figure out a strategy for solving it. Essentially when one thinks of a good puzzle and approaches for solving it, that should be the same type of experience kids have when doing a math project together. At the end of the project the kids should feel enlightened in some way and have seen a new way to think/apply the ideas they learned.

I believe the bulk of math group projects given in schools are not challenging enough and do not contain many of the above properties. As a result they often turn into a tedious, boring, and time consuming task that doesn't feel interesting to the advanced kids.

Well said. In the taco truck example, the interesting part of the project is not on math. It could be a good project if the class is a baby business planning class. Giving kids hard math problems and ask them to present their approach/solution to the class can even be a much better way to get them some public speaking/group discussion experience. Or have a few of them tackle a hard problem together. The taco truck project is just so basic in math but so tedious to execute, I just don't see the point.

[Anonymous]

Right and this is why it's so critical to have teachers who understand how kids really learn and how they should teach to that. Kids are not trained apes, they are highly curious highly intelligent and should be treated (and challenged) accordingly.

Kids love a good argument, they love to question things, and they love to explore. They do not love being talked down to (i.e being babied), do not like rules that seem arbitrary ("just because"), and do not like being constrained (you have to do it this way, not a different way).