Son's travel team is awful

[Anonymous]

+1 for not seeing a problem here. DS was on a team that lost a ton last year but it was one of his favorite years for soccer. He made a lot of friends and there were no trash-talkers on the team unlike in previous years.

Those of you who think C team soccer is the same as rec need to get your heads checked. My DC2, who plays rec, is only a year younger than DC1, who does travel, and the level of play is very very different. Rec is fun but it's not soccer. C team soccer is actually soccer although the skill level is not as good as on the A or B teams.

Can you ask the coach if the kids can move down to a different division for the spring season?

[Anonymous]

I don’t see a problem either.

My son’s baseball team most games the first half of the season (though recently picked up some Ws) and I just said winning isn’t the most important thing! Learning and having fun is! You can’t win em all! You’re being a great sport win or lose, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see a problem either.

My son’s baseball team most games the first half of the season (though recently picked up some Ws) and I just said winning isn’t the most important thing! Learning and having fun is! You can’t win em all! You’re being a great sport win or lose, etc.

The only problem is that OP is paying a lot of money and spending a lot of time traveling. If those aren't things OP is concerned about, then all seems to be good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:any C team is not worth a thing and probably the same level as top rec teams.

You are just putting money into their pockets.

This is such a myth. There might not be much of a difference at the beginning of u9 but after a year you can see it.

[Anonymous]

She doesn't seem to mind the traveling. I think you should be proud you raised a DS who is happy with playing soccer more frequently and having more challenging games and doesn't seem bothered by not winning. It's fine he told his sibling that the team is terrible. It may be but that doesn't mean it isn't fun.

[Anonymous]

Those of you who think C team soccer is the same as rec need to get your heads checked. My DC2, who plays rec, is only a year younger than DC1, who does travel, and the level of play is very very different. Rec is fun but it's not soccer. C team soccer is actually soccer although the skill level is not as good as on the A or B teams.

Agreed. My son is on C team this year, was on rec last year and the experiences are not comparable at all. Are there some kids on rec who are better than kids on travel C? Absolutely! There are really good kids on rec whose parents don't want them to do travel, or who personally don't want to do travel, for a variety of reasons.
But on travel C, you learn to play different positions, to stay in position, and a style of play. Also, on travel C, despite what people on DCUM say, there are no players who are really awful or not interested in being there. Everyone is mediocre and is actually trying, even if the skill level/inherent athleticism isn't there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Those of you who think C team soccer is the same as rec need to get your heads checked. My DC2, who plays rec, is only a year younger than DC1, who does travel, and the level of play is very very different. Rec is fun but it's not soccer. C team soccer is actually soccer although the skill level is not as good as on the A or B teams.

Agreed. My son is on C team this year, was on rec last year and the experiences are not comparable at all. Are there some kids on rec who are better than kids on travel C? Absolutely! There are really good kids on rec whose parents don't want them to do travel, or who personally don't want to do travel, for a variety of reasons.
But on travel C, you learn to play different positions, to stay in position, and a style of play. Also, on travel C, despite what people on DCUM say, there are no players who are really awful or not interested in being there. Everyone is mediocre and is actually trying, even if the skill level/inherent athleticism isn't there.

How can anyone possibly compare travel soccer with rec? Completely different mindset, training, commitment and a certified professional coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son has been on losing teams before, and really the make-up of the team will change every year, so just hang in there. It sounds like it doesn't bother your son, and it never bothered my son either. I think it affects the parents more than the kids! Just keep cheering him on and don't over-analyze the games with him.

I agree with this. My DS was on a VERY sucky team at U11. Blow outs almost every game. But two years later, they are mostly winning. The coach was a huge factor. He is awesome and inspiring and told the boys to hang in there and they did. I was so impressed with those little guys, they never gave up. I think there is a value to learning persistence and working your way up.

I also want to share that I was on a really horrible team in HS and it made me think a lot about why I wanted to play soccer. Sports, for me, was just for fun because my parents pushed me very hard academically and I was a very competitive and successful student. Losing all the time in soccer gave me empathy for kids who had a hard time succeeding in school and truly gave me a kinder world-view. I didn't mind losing in soccer because my friends were on the team and I had fun playing with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 9 year old son is on the C team, which is where he belongs (decent but not affirmatively good). I expected him to be one of the weaker players on the team, but unfortunately, he's not. The entire team is made up of very passive players. We have no one aggressive who can attack and score - it is just endless passing until the other team steals the ball. I am not saying that this is only the fault of the other kids - it is absolutely my son's fault as well because he is just like everyone else on the team. But I don't understand how the league allowed a team to be made up entirely of passive players, without one single aggressive kid. Everyone on the team is getting really depressed because the team is doing awful, even though we only play other C league teams. I don't care about winning tournaments, or even about my son moving up to a better team in the future. I just want this season to be fun for everyone, and for the team to get a bit better and not get completely demolished in every single game. Any thoughts, suggestions, or advice?

I wonder if there's a way to address both the issue of losing and the lack of aggressiveness, and that would be to create a chart that you fill out during your son's games to record instances of the behaviors you want him to display on the field. One measure could be "sprints," another could be "balls won," another could be "tackles attempted," and another could be "hustle plays" (as you define them with him). After the game, you go through the chart with him and explain how you assessed his performance and what he needs to do to improve strictly in chart terms. What this does is take the emphasis completely off of winning and losing -- you're focused just on his performance; you're not even looking at the scoreboard -- while creating some motivation and guidelines for him to play more aggressively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The writing is on the wall; lower level travel teams exist to extract money from parents in exchange for the travel label.

Why not rec? Lower pressure, lower expectations, lots more fun.

The problem with rec now is that it is nearly always the equivalent of the E team. Most of the decent players have left for travel, leaving a good number (not all) of kids who barely show for practice and games, and aren't that interested in actually playing.

[Anonymous]

Bottom line: There are good and bad rec coaches, and there are good and bad travel coaches. They often have exactly the same coaching credentials, in which case the parents will often be better because **they have kids**.

It probably depends where you are. In our county's rec league, the coach is often a volunteer parent without a license or credentials at all - they are just generous enough to give their time. We've had several coaches who did not assign the kids positions (e.g., someone is a defender, someone is a forward) other than goalie and the kids just kind of ran in a lump. That's fine for U8s, but by U10 or 11, that's not a great use of time for a kid who is interested in soccer, even if that kid will never play at a top level.

[Anonymous]

That's not true in our area. DS's rec team is pretty good. It includes some former travel players and a few who didn't play travel but were on a professionally coached team before but who are too busy now with other activities for a more intense soccer experience. DS is in 6th and by this age the kids who don't want to play soccer just don't sign up for soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The writing is on the wall; lower level travel teams exist to extract money from parents in exchange for the travel label.

Why not rec? Lower pressure, lower expectations, lots more fun.

The problem with rec now is that it is nearly always the equivalent of the E team. Most of the decent players have left for travel, leaving a good number (not all) of kids who barely show for practice and games, and aren't that interested in actually playing.

Let's not forget that many have left for other sports all together. I watched a rec game after my son's U6 game that was on an adjacent field, they looked like a U12 and it did not resemble soccer.....or even a sport!

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Those of you who think C team soccer is the same as rec need to get your heads checked. My DC2, who plays rec, is only a year younger than DC1, who does travel, and the level of play is very very different. Rec is fun but it's not soccer. C team soccer is actually soccer although the skill level is not as good as on the A or B teams.

Agreed. My son is on C team this year, was on rec last year and the experiences are not comparable at all. Are there some kids on rec who are better than kids on travel C? Absolutely! There are really good kids on rec whose parents don't want them to do travel, or who personally don't want to do travel, for a variety of reasons.
But on travel C, you learn to play different positions, to stay in position, and a style of play. Also, on travel C, despite what people on DCUM say, there are no players who are really awful or not interested in being there. Everyone is mediocre and is actually trying, even if the skill level/inherent athleticism isn't there.

How can anyone possibly compare travel soccer with rec? Completely different mindset, training, commitment and a certified professional coach.

Sort of.

The biggest difference between travel and rec, especially at the younger age groups, is that the players who lack the interest and the aptitude aren't there. When I'm coaching rec, I have several players with developmental issues, several players who are rarely there, and so on. The other rec players really aren't different.

Some rec players start to fall behind because travel players are training more often and playing with and against more complete teams. But some don't. I've seen so many players come back from travel to rec and find they're really not as far ahead as they thought. If they were playing on a top-level team (above average in VPL or CCL, upper divisions in NCSL), sure, they come back, and they're a lot better. But if they're mid-level or low-level travel? They might not make All-Stars when they come back to rec. Many don't.

And I think the reason why is the last thing you mention -- a "certified professional coach."

I don't know of any clubs that put their best coaches with the U9s through U12s. You may have some coaches that coach multiple teams -- a U16 and a U10, for example -- but they might not be great with the younger age groups.

A more typical lower-age coach has, at most, a D license. Some parent coaches have that as well. Some parent coaches also have more experience than the 24-year-old "professional" coach who is just getting started and was assigned to the U9s.

And their mindset is often completely wrong. They just came out of a college program or perhaps an amateur (even semipro or even fully pro) team that really put an emphasis on winning. So they start their coaching careers, and the "development over winning" mantra hasn't taken hold. Sure, they'll rotate players into different positions because the technical director tells them to, but they're yelling at the players over basic bad touches that any U10 is going to make. Or they're running up the score because they think that'll placate the parents. (And it might.)

At the other end of the spectrum, some coaches are so intent on "development" that they don't teach basic field sense. How many U12 players have you seen who, when asked to play defense, turn and look for options in the *middle* of the field and then give the ball away? They still haven't learned that their best play is usually (not always, of course) going to be to the outside. And if they're in danger of losing the ball, lose it way out on the wing, not dead center 20 yards from goal with no defensive cover behind you.

Bottom line: There are good and bad rec coaches, and there are good and bad travel coaches. They often have exactly the same coaching credentials, in which case the parents will often be better because **they have kids**.

Coaches are basically teachers. You don't learn how to teach when you're playing college soccer. You don't learn much about teaching in the USSF coaching curriculum -- maybe a little more in the revised curriculum, which is good.

D license coaches are "certified" in coming up with a practice plan, and it's drilled into their head to ask guided questions rather than simply yelling. The former is pretty easy, and the TD might have his or her own plans, anyway. The latter? That takes time.

This is well stated. I parent coach rec right now and I have as high or higher license than all but the technical director and 1 other paid travel coach. I don't advertise it because what difference does it make? The license process made me a better coach than I was before but it isn't magic. The main differences I see between travel and rec at this age group are:
1. travel eliminates the first time/unmotivated player by self-selection and 2. what is being taught - travel generally teaches a program of technical and tactical development properly - so OP your team sounds like it is learning possession soccer and losing games while it develops this style of play - lacking aggression is probably just the players are still learning to balance when to attack by passing and when to attack individually - it will come. Sounds like your team may be losing games but winning in development. Think long-term. But as far as what to do as a parent for your child? I suggest you let the coach know the kids were upset and that they may need a pep talk and let the coach know you are there to help. Sometimes it helps a coach to know that you get it as far as development v. losing, and that may help the coach understand that winning a game or two is also important for the psyche development of a team and individual kids. Unfortunately travel and rec both have a parent culture of parents who really can't tell when their player is learning and don't accept the reality that you can't track a player from U8 into the premier league or la liga. Take your kid out for ice cream and identify things he does in the game that you can praise - the old DiCicco catch them being good.

[Anonymous]

o OP your team sounds like it is learning possession soccer and losing games while it develops this style of play - lacking aggression is probably just the players are still learning to balance when to attack by passing and when to attack individually - it will come. Sounds like your team may be losing games but winning in development. Think long-term. But as far as what to do as a parent for your child? I suggest you let the coach know the kids were upset and that they may need a pep talk and let the coach know you are there to help. Sometimes it helps a coach to know that you get it as far as development v. losing, and that may help the coach understand that winning a game or two is also important for the psyche development of a team and individual kids. Unfortunately travel and rec both have a parent culture of parents who really can't tell when their player is learning and don't accept the reality that you can't track a player from U8 into the premier league or la liga. Take your kid out for ice cream and identify things he does in the game that you can praise - the old DiCicco catch them being good.

OP here. Thank you, that is great advice, I appreciate it.