Tollefson Swim Team

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one can stop a USA swimming transfer. The new software allows swimmers to initiate transfers on their own. Why in the world did you tell them you were leaving? I get you were trying to be honest, but these teams are all the same- they only like you when you are loyal. We have moved teams before and you have to watch out for yourself.

It sounds from your post that you are either moving to RMSC or NCap. As someone with experience with these big teams, believe me when I say they aren’t going to treat you better- and if you are headed to NCap, you should know that everyone in the older group at prep quit last year because the coach was so awful. They started with 14 and had 10 by November because they all quit.

If you are going to compete in elite swimming, my advice: Grow a thicker skin, assume teams are awful on some level, and be smart. Good luck!

I’m no math whiz but starting with 14 and ending with 10 doesn’t mean everyone quit. The kids that are left are also elite level swimmers.

OP, I don’t know what level your kid is at, but TOLL doesn’t generally seem to keep top level swimmers beyond age 12. The PP is right though that at a big club like RMSC and NCAP a fast kid is nothing new to them so they aren’t going to see your kid as special unless he is truly elite.

[Anonymous]

Ncap is the literal worst- all they want is your money. I’d say one of the most unethical swim clubs out there. OP, hope you’re headed to RMSC- they are a lot cheaper with just as good results as NCap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ncap is the literal worst- all they want is your money. I’d say one of the most unethical swim clubs out there. OP, hope you’re headed to RMSC- they are a lot cheaper with just as good results as NCap.

You do know that RMSCs higher level training groups are expensive, right? If I had a mediocre swimmer I definitely wouldn’t spend the money on NCAP and would go with RMSCs basic Juniors or Seniors group, but don’t pretend that RMSCs elite groups are cheap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ncap is the literal worst- all they want is your money. I’d say one of the most unethical swim clubs out there. OP, hope you’re headed to RMSC- they are a lot cheaper with just as good results as NCap.

You do know that RMSCs higher level training groups are expensive, right? If I had a mediocre swimmer I definitely wouldn’t spend the money on NCAP and would go with RMSCs basic Juniors or Seniors group, but don’t pretend that RMSCs elite groups are cheap.

The senior group with summer is not particularly heap either given how many kids there are and they get free pool time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find this very hard to believe- the coaches have been super dedicated and responsive.

I also find it difficult to believe that you/your son did not do something wrong yourselves, frankly.

I am a current toll parent and am not at all surprised. The only thing they did wrong was want to leave. Their son is amazing and now Toll is losing their strongest swimmer. It’s a butter but unexpected reaction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find this very hard to believe- the coaches have been super dedicated and responsive.

I also find it difficult to believe that you/your son did not do something wrong yourselves, frankly.

I am a current toll parent and am not at all surprised. The only thing they did wrong was want to leave. Their son is amazing and now Toll is losing their strongest swimmer. It’s a butter but unexpected reaction.

*bitter, not butter

[Anonymous]

Isn't Toll's strongest swimmer an older sectionals swimmer?

Looks like from OP's post, and I could be wrong, the kid wanted to try a faster team- but (and as a PP mentioned) unless they are elite, those bigger clubs won't pay any attention to him.

Not saying the club in question acted in the right way, btw. But after having been in club swim for a while, I can tell you all clubs are vicious to a certain degree. And I'm willing to bet there's another side of the story, but who knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't Toll's strongest swimmer an older sectionals swimmer?

Looks like from OP's post, and I could be wrong, the kid wanted to try a faster team- but (and as a PP mentioned) unless they are elite, those bigger clubs won't pay any attention to him.

Not saying the club in question acted in the right way, btw. But after having been in club swim for a while, I can tell you all clubs are vicious to a certain degree. And I'm willing to bet there's another side of the story, but who knows.

Each club can be different and yes, some are friendlier than others and/or have different philosophies. And each kid does club swim for their own reasons. TOLL might work well for some and not for others. We are not currently with TOLL, but pretty sure if you are part of the club or are familiar with the club, you are familiar with the swimmer. And if it is who I think it is, he is a really good kid and have no reason to believe, unless someone else has first-hand knowledge, that he did something wrong. So here is an honest take (and to each their own, this is just one view):

TOLL has been growing the program over the past few years--in size and reputation. This includes increased branding and hosting more meets (e.g. SC/LC opens, etc.). And it is natural to want to reduce turnover, especially among your fastest swimmers, and to maintain a healthy pipeline of swimmers across the board. A big part of the appeal for some of the swimmers out there is to be part of a competitive program that will help them grow.

If one of TOLL's most recognized swimmers is leaving the program, I get that it stings in multiple ways. They are losing a strong swimmer and it potentially sets a precedent for others. There can be a domino effect and it can be challenging for TOLL to keep certain swimmers; this isn't a new issue. Perhaps this swimmer wanted a new challenge--informed, thoughtful decision to make a move to foster his personal development. As it currently stands, if you really want to develop at TOLL, have cut times, and you show the requisite potential, there is a good chance you may have to swim up. Being moved at 11 to swim with 14/15 year olds or 13/14 to swim with 18 year olds out of necessity/parity isn't for everyone. It can work for some swimmers, but maybe not so much for others. The physical demands of what an 11 year old can handle vs. a 14 year old can handle can be signicant in terms of yardage, sets, intervals, and even equipment such as paddles. So moving to a program with comparably capable or fast swimmers may provide a better option, especially if the peers are in the same age group.

TOLL has some strong swimmers across the board--a few 14+ and promising swimmers in the 12U groups. And I get that the TOLL coaches put a lot of time and effort into developing their swimmers, including the one who is leaving. This departure seems to have really hurt the coaching staff on both a deeply personal and professional level and the response was unfortunate and extreme. The experience may or may not impact some swimmers who decide to join, leave, or stay with the club. If TOLL works for you, stay. If you are interested, check out the program, try out, and get a feel for what may work for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't Toll's strongest swimmer an older sectionals swimmer?

Looks like from OP's post, and I could be wrong, the kid wanted to try a faster team- but (and as a PP mentioned) unless they are elite, those bigger clubs won't pay any attention to him.

Not saying the club in question acted in the right way, btw. But after having been in club swim for a while, I can tell you all clubs are vicious to a certain degree. And I'm willing to bet there's another side of the story, but who knows.

Each club can be different and yes, some are friendlier than others and/or have different philosophies. And each kid does club swim for their own reasons. TOLL might work well for some and not for others. We are not currently with TOLL, but pretty sure if you are part of the club or are familiar with the club, you are familiar with the swimmer. And if it is who I think it is, he is a really good kid and have no reason to believe, unless someone else has first-hand knowledge, that he did something wrong. So here is an honest take (and to each their own, this is just one view):

TOLL has been growing the program over the past few years--in size and reputation. This includes increased branding and hosting more meets (e.g. SC/LC opens, etc.). And it is natural to want to reduce turnover, especially among your fastest swimmers, and to maintain a healthy pipeline of swimmers across the board. A big part of the appeal for some of the swimmers out there is to be part of a competitive program that will help them grow.

If one of TOLL's most recognized swimmers is leaving the program, I get that it stings in multiple ways. They are losing a strong swimmer and it potentially sets a precedent for others. There can be a domino effect and it can be challenging for TOLL to keep certain swimmers; this isn't a new issue. Perhaps this swimmer wanted a new challenge--informed, thoughtful decision to make a move to foster his personal development. As it currently stands, if you really want to develop at TOLL, have cut times, and you show the requisite potential, there is a good chance you may have to swim up. Being moved at 11 to swim with 14/15 year olds or 13/14 to swim with 18 year olds out of necessity/parity isn't for everyone. It can work for some swimmers, but maybe not so much for others. The physical demands of what an 11 year old can handle vs. a 14 year old can handle can be signicant in terms of yardage, sets, intervals, and even equipment such as paddles. So moving to a program with comparably capable or fast swimmers may provide a better option, especially if the peers are in the same age group.

TOLL has some strong swimmers across the board--a few 14+ and promising swimmers in the 12U groups. And I get that the TOLL coaches put a lot of time and effort into developing their swimmers, including the one who is leaving. This departure seems to have really hurt the coaching staff on both a deeply personal and professional level and the response was unfortunate and extreme. The experience may or may not impact some swimmers who decide to join, leave, or stay with the club. If TOLL works for you, stay. If you are interested, check out the program, try out, and get a feel for what may work for you.

My DD is a 12&U swimmer at a big club and we were at more than 1 meet with TOLL this year and they had a handful of 12&U female swimmers who can compete with anyone. To the point you made about swimming up though, their next group of swimmers were so far behind that level that I would imagine those top girls have to be swimming up to get regular practice that challenges them. I think part of the success of the big clubs is being able to provide an appropriate practice cohort for their best swimmers within their own age group.

While I understand the struggle of trying to build a program to compete with the big clubs in this area, it’s pretty crappy to turn on a 12 year old kid for moving on.

[Anonymous]

So this family was at Toll for eight years, became a great swimmer with them, then you expect the team to shower then with affection when they leave?

Yeah the team handled it wrong for sure- they should have said bye, and let the kid go. But the kid is in for a surprise when they move- teams pay the most attention to their fastest swimmers. And the fastest kids at NCap are Olympic caliber swimmers and the rest of the swimmers are just there to pay the coaches’ salaries

Big fish little pond becomes small fish big pond. But hope it works out for the swimmer and next time this happens Toll just lets the kid go quietly- bc the kid may regret leaving anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So this family was at Toll for eight years, became a great swimmer with them, then you expect the team to shower then with affection when they leave?

Yeah the team handled it wrong for sure- they should have said bye, and let the kid go. But the kid is in for a surprise when they move- teams pay the most attention to their fastest swimmers. And the fastest kids at NCap are Olympic caliber swimmers and the rest of the swimmers are just there to pay the coaches’ salaries

Big fish little pond becomes small fish big pond. But hope it works out for the swimmer and next time this happens Toll just lets the kid go quietly- bc the kid may regret leaving anyway.

No one expected the kid to be showered with affection, but kicking the kid out of the club now even though they paid for LC season is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't Toll's strongest swimmer an older sectionals swimmer?

Looks like from OP's post, and I could be wrong, the kid wanted to try a faster team- but (and as a PP mentioned) unless they are elite, those bigger clubs won't pay any attention to him.

Not saying the club in question acted in the right way, btw. But after having been in club swim for a while, I can tell you all clubs are vicious to a certain degree. And I'm willing to bet there's another side of the story, but who knows.

There is ALWAYS another side to the story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this family was at Toll for eight years, became a great swimmer with them, then you expect the team to shower then with affection when they leave?

Yeah the team handled it wrong for sure- they should have said bye, and let the kid go. But the kid is in for a surprise when they move- teams pay the most attention to their fastest swimmers. And the fastest kids at NCap are Olympic caliber swimmers and the rest of the swimmers are just there to pay the coaches’ salaries

Big fish little pond becomes small fish big pond. But hope it works out for the swimmer and next time this happens Toll just lets the kid go quietly- bc the kid may regret leaving anyway.

No one expected the kid to be showered with affection, but kicking the kid out of the club now even though they paid for LC season is ridiculous.

I assume that they would have at least be refunded a portion of what they paid reflecting that they were forced to leave. If not, that's another issue there on top of everything else.

[Anonymous]

Seems like a real mature response from an adult who is responsible for helping children learn about sportsmanship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So this family was at Toll for eight years, became a great swimmer with them, then you expect the team to shower then with affection when they leave?

Yeah the team handled it wrong for sure- they should have said bye, and let the kid go. But the kid is in for a surprise when they move- teams pay the most attention to their fastest swimmers. And the fastest kids at NCap are Olympic caliber swimmers and the rest of the swimmers are just there to pay the coaches’ salaries

Big fish little pond becomes small fish big pond. But hope it works out for the swimmer and next time this happens Toll just lets the kid go quietly- bc the kid may regret leaving anyway.

Seems like you know him--so he is going to NCAP? Prep group? Got the impression the older NCAP groups @13+ are pretty selective.