FDA warns an increase in canine heart disease might be linked to grain-free dog foods

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:8:59 - veterinarian here. This is untrue. I completed a year-long nutrition course in veterinary school and regularly take continuing education classes on nutrition. This misinformation that vets receive no education about nutrition is perpetuated by boutique pet stores, who are the ones trying to make a profit off of selling you food that you cannot buy elsewhere. I do not get “perks” from pet food companies, nor am I “invested” in any pet food companies. Maybe I have received a free pen from Purina, or maybe even a mini chocolate bar at a Science Diet booth. I can sign up to receive discounted dog food from Purina and Royal Canin, but honestly, the food is less expensive on amazon or chewy than if I buy directly from the company. Please stop perpetuating these myths.

Please tell us what you know about commercial dog food.

What do you think about Purina and Royal Canin?

What do you think about all the recalls of pet food manufactured in China?

Is corn a good choice for a dog?

What do you think about the pet food analyses at dogfoodanalysis.com and dogfoodchat.com?

[Anonymous]

Breeder and trainer here - We have found food choice to be very dog specific. We normally feed our German Shepherd Dogs Taste of the Wild. But we had a GSD that could not tolerate it. We tried many, many different brands with him. We tried feeding raw. The only thing he tolerated well was Purina Dog Chow.

Also, it's ridiculous to suggest that all dog owners feed expensive food. Not everyone can afford to spend $60 a bag on pet food. There are perfectly acceptable cheaper options.

[Anonymous]

I'm just confused as to whether or not the Nutro Lamb & Rice that I've been feeding my dogs for years is o.k. Lamb is not naturally a great source of tuarine but taurine is listed as an ingredient as is chicken.

I have been googling this and there is some mention that lentils/peas/chickpeas can bind with taurine and cause it to not be well absorbed. I am completely confused because all of my dogs seem to be doing really well. Should I make it a point to start supplementing with chicken breast? If so, how often?

[Anonymous]

^I mean taurine is listed as an additive along with chicken bone meal.

[Anonymous]

sorry, not chicken bone mea, chicken fat preserved with tocopherols(? or something like that)

[Anonymous]

Our rescue came to us with a small bag of Purina Pro plan. We mixed and did the gradual increase to get him switched over to the Nutro we fed our other dog. Our older dog has zero issues switching between Nutro lamb, chicken, duck, venison varieties. The rescue had horrible gastro issues with Nutro chicke. The vet suggested we mix and try lamb. No go and he turned his nose up at venison and duck.

Back to the drawing board we went. Bought another bag of Purina Pro plan and got his stomach straightened back out. Then we tried mixing and switching him to another grain free. Nope, same gastro issues. Tried again and again and finally just gave up. It felt cruel to keep forcing him to suffer gastro issues to get him on a higher quality food.

He’s been happily eating his Purina Pro plan for years now. But oh man you should see the dirty looks I get when buying it. And so many people have stopped to tell me about how bad it is and all that.

Literally the only food the rescue can handle is the Purina and two people foods: scrambled eggs and peanut butter. All other things including bland chicken and rice upset his stomach. Funny little dude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pro plan is purinas higher level brand. It’s often recommended by breeders and vets.

Not mine.

Not mine, either.

Our dog eats Nulo.

FYI, vets and breeders have zero training in nutrition, and get perks from e.g. Science Diet to promote their brand.

That is a longstanding myth. They do not get any kick backs.

[Anonymous]

Here is the thing: dogs can have peas, potatoes, and whatnot in their kibble, but they ALSO need a source of taurine from meat or wherever. The dog foods aren't going to cause the cardio myopathy- it's the lack of taurine that can lead to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the thing: dogs can have peas, potatoes, and whatnot in their kibble, but they ALSO need a source of taurine from meat or wherever. The dog foods aren't going to cause the cardio myopathy- it's the lack of taurine that can lead to it.

Is a dog food enriched with taurine good enough or does the dog need a natural source of taurine like chicken breast/thigh meat? If so, how often do they need it?

Also, if the issue is due to a lack of taurine which is found in the muscle (not fat, skin, etc) then is it accurate to attribute the problem to strictly "grain-free" diets? I would think that a grain-free chicken based diet would be fine, right? Or is there something specifically lacking in high protein feed/no grain diets, in general?

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that rice and oats are grains (along with corn and wheat), so the dog food is not grain-free if it contains them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind that rice and oats are grains (along with corn and wheat), so the dog food is not grain-free if it contains them.

Yes, I know. That's why I'm not quite understanding if this new warning is specifically for high protein/grain-free diets or if this is a new take on the taurine warning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our rescue came to us with a small bag of Purina Pro plan. We mixed and did the gradual increase to get him switched over to the Nutro we fed our other dog. Our older dog has zero issues switching between Nutro lamb, chicken, duck, venison varieties. The rescue had horrible gastro issues with Nutro chicke. The vet suggested we mix and try lamb. No go and he turned his nose up at venison and duck.

Back to the drawing board we went. Bought another bag of Purina Pro plan and got his stomach straightened back out. Then we tried mixing and switching him to another grain free. Nope, same gastro issues. Tried again and again and finally just gave up. It felt cruel to keep forcing him to suffer gastro issues to get him on a higher quality food.

He’s been happily eating his Purina Pro plan for years now. But oh man you should see the dirty looks I get when buying it. And so many people have stopped to tell me about how bad it is and all that.

Literally the only food the rescue can handle is the Purina and two people foods: scrambled eggs and peanut butter. All other things including bland chicken and rice upset his stomach. Funny little dude.

Oh, you absolutely did the right thing by keeping your rescue pup on Purina Pro Plan. I would have done the exact same thing in your situation. I tried Pro Plan with my dogs and there was something about the texture of the food that did not agree with one of my dogs. She has a sensitive stomach (not all textures agree with her) and has been doing great on Nutro Lamb and Rice, so that is what she gets. I'm reluctant to tip the apple cart with her over the taurine warning. So I'll plan to keep her on the Nutro but will consider supplementing with dark meat chicken on occasion...if necessary.

Again, I'm not clear if this new warning is specifically related to grain-free diets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the thing: dogs can have peas, potatoes, and whatnot in their kibble, but they ALSO need a source of taurine from meat or wherever. The dog foods aren't going to cause the cardio myopathy- it's the lack of taurine that can lead to it.

Is a dog food enriched with taurine good enough or does the dog need a natural source of taurine like chicken breast/thigh meat? If so, how often do they need it?

Also, if the issue is due to a lack of taurine which is found in the muscle (not fat, skin, etc) then is it accurate to attribute the problem to strictly "grain-free" diets? I would think that a grain-free chicken based diet would be fine, right? Or is there something specifically lacking in high protein feed/no grain diets, in general?

I think it is the amount of taurine...what food is listed first and the order. I feed my dogs Merrick. It is grain free ( not because I care, they just do well on it), and has sweet potato and peas, but it comes with chicken or beef. I also top the kibble with canned beef, salmon, or chicken. I would also have no problem feeding them Purina. Several dogs I had did fine with that.

Now- I make rice when the dogs have a bad stomach day, and will use the bland Science Diet if there is an ongoing issue with some diarrhea( it works!) , but I won't do rice as a long term primary diet. As we know, rice has a natural arsenic in it- also in apple juices, etc., and I worry that it might affect some development in hemangiosarcoma- there seems to be a link with angiosarcoma ( the human form) and arsenic, so that is a small concern of mine even though I do think HSA is largely genetic, and not diet related.

But I do still use rice from time to time. I don't agree with grain free diets as a norm, or raw food diets. This is a fad that has gotten some steam from marketing, yet it has really taken on a life of it's own.

[Anonymous]

Yes, if it's about taurine I do not understand this warning based on "grain free" dog food. The warning issued specifically states that dog foods based primarily on potatoes, legumes, etc. I wonder if they are simply talking about low quality feed in general with little to no meat.

A dog fed a diet that is based primarily on rice or sweet potato with meat way further down in the list of ingredients is probably not getting a good amount of taurine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, if it's about taurine I do not understand this warning based on "grain free" dog food. The warning issued specifically states that dog foods based primarily on potatoes, legumes, etc. I wonder if they are simply talking about low quality feed in general with little to no meat.

A dog fed a diet that is based primarily on rice or sweet potato with meat way further down in the list of ingredients is probably not getting a good amount of taurine.

My guess is that this is it: some of these diets just don't have enough meat. But peas , chick peas, lentils, or whatever aren't causing the problem- dogs just cannot eat these in place of meat.