Anyone regret sending their kids to public school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:23 here. To the 2 PP, thank you for the insight. I'm surprised and, I guess, naive. I thought that the challenging, progressive schools (whether private or public) no longer took the approach of "teaching to the test". My understanding of "challenging" is a little different and busywork, rote memorization or formula learning falls outside of what I would hope educators would do to 'challenge' a student.

I'm a new poster. With regards to "challenging" -- my child is in 2nd grade in a Talented and Gifted Magnet program public school. (Prince George's County). I haven't seen any test prep work come home yet nor has my child mention it, although I'm sure they'll do some. What I have seen is what I woudl call appropriately challenging work in Language Arts. They are using Junior Great Books for reading, as well as a curriculum called "William and Mary Integrated Curriculum for Gifted Learners". http://cfge.wm.edu/curriculum.htm
The activities seem thoughtful and challenging, asking kids to see things from different points of view. I don't see any reason why many students, not just in TAG schools, couldn't be using more of these types of activities, rather than workbooks and rote memorization.

That is because the school assumes that the gifted and talented kids will ace the standardized tests and there is less need to focus on them. Be thankful that your child is in a special program and not in a regular class where your child would be bored to death. Not all kids who need GT programs are so lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our kids attended a much-lauded MCPS for elementary school and then switched to private school for MS and HS. I completely agree with the PP's analysis. Our kids had excellent teachers and great peer groups in their MCPS ES, but the focus on test prep has ruined the schools.

8:09, thank you for your perspective. If your kids were currently in your local MCPS elementary school, would you do everything possible to send them to private school from elementary on? I'm trying to gauge how extensive the ruin has been over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, you will probably hear from many public school parents who have absolutely no problem with the way their school preps for tests. Their schools may not even give out worksheets so they assume that there really is no test prep going on. There is always test prep - even if the teacher is just sticking to the curriculum, it is test prep because they have to cram in all the topics that might be tested. There is no room for a teacher to deviate from the curriculum to teach something that is timely or interesting to a particular child. Again, not a problem for some kids but a real problem for those that need something more out of school to stay interested and tuned-in.
The debates about public vs. private on this board will continue forever. For me the only benefit of private that matters is the flexibility. Smaller class sizes, no standardized tests that must be prepared for, and a curriculum that can be followed much more loosely allow a good private school teacher to be flexible and individualize their lessons. That's not to say that there aren't excellent teachers in public school - I have many friends and family who are public school teachers and they work their butts off to do the best job they can. They just can't do as much with the many constraints that are placed on them.

There is a great entry in Jay Mathews' blog about the benefits of just this kind of flexibility to let a student learn about what interests them rather than sticking to a scripted curriculum. Not saying that most private schools go this far either but all the focus on test scores has definitely caused public schools to go in the wrong direction.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/class-struggle/2010/01/free-form_gifted_education_for.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have three that are ages five and under. All three are at The Harbor School now and we love it. We are considering both public and private options in the future and I struggle with this all the time. I'd like constructive opinions on whether the public school offers extracurricular opportunities and exposure to cultural, scientific, etc. opportunities. The lure of private schools for me is the interesting and varied activities and exposure available beyond the academic "stuff". Especially with the certain budget cuts coming to public schools, are there any concerns about how the quality of the music or drama programs, etc. will be affected or is the emphasis for many just about whether the academic programs are challenging enough?

I think our school does a very good job even if it is little too focused on assessment/testing. I generally am pleased with our school although there are things I'd change. However, I can say that I don't think it is worthwhile to go to private school just for the extracurricular/nonacademic "stuff". With the 30k a year I save, I don't at all mind providing those opportunities in a tailored way for my child outside of school (or even at school but as an afterschool activity). I also think there are real benefits for families in going to a neighborhood school that sometimes get overlooked in these discussions (and I say that even as someone whose child rides the bus 3 miles to school)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have three that are ages five and under. All three are at The Harbor School now and we love it. We are considering both public and private options in the future and I struggle with this all the time. I'd like constructive opinions on whether the public school offers extracurricular opportunities and exposure to cultural, scientific, etc. opportunities. The lure of private schools for me is the interesting and varied activities and exposure available beyond the academic "stuff". Especially with the certain budget cuts coming to public schools, are there any concerns about how the quality of the music or drama programs, etc. will be affected or is the emphasis for many just about whether the academic programs are challenging enough?

I think our school does a very good job even if it is little too focused on assessment/testing. I generally am pleased with our school although there are things I'd change. However, I can say that I don't think it is worthwhile to go to private school just for the extracurricular/nonacademic "stuff". With the 30k a year I save, I don't at all mind providing those opportunities in a tailored way for my child outside of school (or even at school but as an afterschool activity). I also think there are real benefits for families in going to a neighborhood school that sometimes get overlooked in these discussions (and I say that even as someone whose child rides the bus 3 miles to school)

This is where the decision really depends on how your child learns best and what makes them happiest. For us, the very difficult decision to switch to private school was not based on getting all the "extras" that private offers but getting away what was really turning out to be a negative and mind-numbing experience in public school. Many people with kids who "fit the mold" won't have this experience and cannot possibly understand. For those that have kids who learn differently (special needs or very gifted) or just need something more interesting or dynamic to keep them engaged and interested in learning, there are few choices within the public school system. OP, I don't think you can really know what will be best for your child before they even start school. If you decide to go public, just be vigilant for any problems your child may be having. The school may try to convince you that it is your child who has the problem but keep in mind that there are other options. You can always switch to private later. I never question our decision to move to private because we had many ugly years in the public schools. Having a good private has made all the difference and DC could not be doing better or, most importantly, be happier. Paying the tuition sucks but, in our case, we really didn't feel like we had a choice.

[Anonymous]

I'm the OP, and we are still completely conflicted about MCPS curriculum being a right fit for our daughter. The jist of it is I see a stressed out teacher trying her best to cram as much info into a 5/6year old's day with absolutely no room for the child to veer from the path. I fear my daughter will lose the desire to go to school as it is sometimes boring, and "challenging" means work-sheets and memorization, of the like where she is being forced to write sentences in a foreign language (Spanish) and she can't even read yet. It doesn't make sense to me. Plus the teacher "doesn't have enough time" to give out a snack in the afternoon, and the first thing to go is the 20 minutes they are allowed for "free choice" daily, if the teacher is running behind with her curriculum for the day. I think this will only worsen as the years go on. I have been told my daughter is in danger of falling behind. In kindergarten? I may be biased, but I know my daughter is very intelligent. She's just not the performing monkey she is expected to be in the MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Every one talks about the "very gifted" being shafted in MCPS because of the "fit the mold" approach, but what about the Highly Gifted schools like Barnsley? If your kid is truly as gifted as advertised, they could get into Barnsley. My question is whether Barnsley is any different from the "neighborhood" school?

[Anonymous]

It's popular these days to complain about all the teaching to the test that goes on in schools. I agree that too much test prep, focused on just math and reading, is soul-killing. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. In my opinion, requiring teachers to stick to the curriculum is, in general, a good thing. (Always assuming that the curriculum is a good, rich, rigorous one, including plenty of science and social studies.) If you have a rich curriculum, and teachers move at a good pace, kids should find a lot to interest them, and if they don't, well, there should be a new topic in a month.

If teachers are allowed to just drop the curriculum and teach what they think kids should learn, there's a danger that they will omit key elements. I remember going through middle and high school back eons ago, and we NEVER got to World War I, not to mention World War II, in any history course. This includes high school! (I didn't take AP American History). Because the teachers weren't held accountable, and the students didn't have to take tests each year (other than teacher written ones) the fact that the teachers just plain never taught or covered certain concepts was left unnoticed by parents and, well, anyone who could have cared.

As a teacher myself, in VA, before the state tests in all subjects in elementary school were mandated, I saw too many examples of teachers deciding they liked, say, colonial history, so that's what they taught. They would focus on all sorts of cool colonial projects and topics, and themes and reports, and field trips...We had colonial math projects and colonial butter churning day and colonial pie tin punching and colonial snack day and dress like your favority colonial history character. And so on. Then suddenly they had no time left to teach many other important things. So they just skipped a lot of those, because there wasn't any time. Sure, the kids had a great time, but... a few years of spotty instruction like this, and you can be left with a very poor education.

I think teaching the curriculum, if it is a good one, SHOULD be required. And testing should be required, in all subjects. But the test should be a decent one, too. It needs to be rigorous, and cover many topics

[Anonymous]

OP, why is your daughter required to write in Spanish? Is she in a Spanish immersion program?

[Anonymous]

OP, I would strongly suggest trying MCPS first. If you are not loving it, leave. But if you go private first, it is VERY hard to leave. The perks and the smallness make it SO alluring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's popular these days to complain about all the teaching to the test that goes on in schools. I agree that too much test prep, focused on just math and reading, is soul-killing. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. In my opinion, requiring teachers to stick to the curriculum is, in general, a good thing. (Always assuming that the curriculum is a good, rich, rigorous one, including plenty of science and social studies.) If you have a rich curriculum, and teachers move at a good pace, kids should find a lot to interest them, and if they don't, well, there should be a new topic in a month.

If teachers are allowed to just drop the curriculum and teach what they think kids should learn, there's a danger that they will omit key elements. I remember going through middle and high school back eons ago, and we NEVER got to World War I, not to mention World War II, in any history course. This includes high school! (I didn't take AP American History). Because the teachers weren't held accountable, and the students didn't have to take tests each year (other than teacher written ones) the fact that the teachers just plain never taught or covered certain concepts was left unnoticed by parents and, well, anyone who could have cared.

As a teacher myself, in VA, before the state tests in all subjects in elementary school were mandated, I saw too many examples of teachers deciding they liked, say, colonial history, so that's what they taught. They would focus on all sorts of cool colonial projects and topics, and themes and reports, and field trips...We had colonial math projects and colonial butter churning day and colonial pie tin punching and colonial snack day and dress like your favority colonial history character. And so on. Then suddenly they had no time left to teach many other important things. So they just skipped a lot of those, because there wasn't any time. Sure, the kids had a great time, but... a few years of spotty instruction like this, and you can be left with a very poor education.

I think teaching the curriculum, if it is a good one, SHOULD be required. And testing should be required, in all subjects. But the test should be a decent one, too. It needs to be rigorous, and cover many topics

I think many people find out the truth about many public schools like the OP has. They focus on math and language arts b/c that is what is tested. In MD, that is all that is tested so other topics get the shaft like social studies and science. My son's MD K doesn't even have free choice. He came home from school one day in Sept and seemed bummed. I asked him what was wrong and he said he asked the teacher when they could have play time and she said that there is none b/c this is school. Playing is for babies. Niiiiice. If I had the money, he would be in private school.

[Anonymous]

People -- please complain! If you are unhappy with what is going on in MD public schools -- let your elected officials know.

[Anonymous]

Also, I'm curious - have any of you who are unhappy with MCPS had extensive conversations with your children's teachers and principals? I'm one of the PPs whose kids aren't in ES yet. I've been alarmed by some of the posts, and I'm envisioning the worst. When I shared this thread with DH, he wanted to know whether any of the parents who were dissatisfied shared their concerns with the schools. If so, how persistent were you, and how much success did you have?

[Anonymous]

PP- I have talked to my son's K teacher a handful of times. She has complained about his behavior and lack of focus and much of it is due to the lack of recess. When I expressed my concern about this, the teacher (who had only been teaching for 2 yrs) said she didn't make the schedule and there was nothing she could do about it. So I spoke to the principal and she said that no other parents brought up their concerns and that 15 mins of recess at 2pm was "sufficient." I completely disagree but I don't think most parents really know what is going on during the day at school (I volunteered once or twice a month in my son's class). I wonder if things would change if a certain number of parents expressed their concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think many people find out the truth about many public schools like the OP has. They focus on math and language arts b/c that is what is tested. In MD, that is all that is tested so other topics get the shaft like social studies and science. My son's MD K doesn't even have free choice. He came home from school one day in Sept and seemed bummed. I asked him what was wrong and he said he asked the teacher when they could have play time and she said that there is none b/c this is school. Playing is for babies. Niiiiice. If I had the money, he would be in private school.

Just as a point of accuracy, Maryland has added a Science test for 5th grade, and I think eitehr last year or this year there will be a test in fourth grade as well. So at least starting in fourth grade, you should expect to see more science being taught in your child's school.

Social studies, though, I think that's going to have to wait a while longer.