Loiderman’s Performing Arts Magnet Program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wondering if anyone with a child currently at Loiderman coming from out-of-bounds can comment on whether they feel this program is worth the travel/logistics, moving away from home school, etc?

My child's home school is Julius West and we are trying to decide whether the benefits of the program (my child really loves performing arts as well as fiction writing) outweigh the negatives of commute/transporation issues, having to make all new friendships, etc. How much arts-based learning are the children getting? What is the rigor of the academic classes? How have the enriched humanities and math classes been implemented this year (my child would likely be eligible for those classes). Do you feel that this program made a difference for your child that they would not have received if they had stayed at their home school?

TIA!

One of the benefits of the MSMC schools is that if kids are really interested in the focus of the school, they have access to a LOT of activities and classes that relate to the focus. The 8th period is a real benefit for advanced students to take a good strong course load (including language) while also exploring different electives. Your child will make new friendships with other students who also share the same passions. Loiederman really isn't that much of a commute, so you should easily have access to school events. My suggestion to students who aren't quite sure about a program is to go ahead and try it. If it really isn't a great fit, you can always simply return to your home school.

Sure, if you're outside the MSMC area, you can go back. However, this assumes that your home school has sufficiently advanced academics and also assumes that the MSMC isn't already their home school zone. We live in the choice zone, and my daughter chose Loiederman for next year because she is not really strong in math and wasn't interested in the STEM options. However, she's not really into music, art, dance, or theater, either. She loves writing and devours books, but she's not outgoing enough to want to do theater. (She was really hoping to get into Eastern, but that didn't happen.) There was no good "choice" for her. She thinks she will do art for her electives, but she's not exactly enthusiastic about it. If we had a different home school, there may have been other elective concentrations, and she wouldn't be dreading heading to a school where she doesn't fit the artistic atmosphere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wondering if anyone with a child currently at Loiderman coming from out-of-bounds can comment on whether they feel this program is worth the travel/logistics, moving away from home school, etc?

My child's home school is Julius West and we are trying to decide whether the benefits of the program (my child really loves performing arts as well as fiction writing) outweigh the negatives of commute/transporation issues, having to make all new friendships, etc. How much arts-based learning are the children getting? What is the rigor of the academic classes? How have the enriched humanities and math classes been implemented this year (my child would likely be eligible for those classes). Do you feel that this program made a difference for your child that they would not have received if they had stayed at their home school?

TIA!

The current 6th graders at the MSMC schools do not have a magnet-level math and world studies class. They were specifically excluded from the field tests that gave 20 lower-county schools the local magnet-level classes because they are already considered "magnet" schools. If they are offering the magnet-level classes next year (and I'm not sure whether they are or not), it will be the first time it's being implemented at those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the test scores of your home school compared to Loiderman. It is a CHOICE school (get in by lottery) not a MAGNET school (get in by testing in).

You seem to spend a lot of time making sure everyone knows that you don't consider Loiederman a magnet school. The students at Loiederman who participate in the arts magnet classes are arts magnet students. If there were test scores for the arts, they would be above most students at non-arts magnet schools. Fortunately, the families who "choose" Loiederman for its magnet program don't give a shit about your definition of what constitutes a magnet school. A. Mario Loiederman Magnet Middle School for the Creative and Performing Arts is a magnet school.

Not the PP, but just wondering why folks are so defensive when someone points out a fact.

I know folks who automatically (and mistakenly) think "magnet" means a test in school or program (like TPMS/Clemente/... programs) and hence the cohort will be very highly able. The PP was specifically responding to a poster who said his DD was coming from a highly gifted program, and was specifically asking about academic landscape and advanced courses (math/Englisth/etc.)

The PP did not point out a fact, though. S/he pointed out s/he does not consider LMS a magnet school because out of bounds admission is by lottery and not a test.

You really can't see why someone would get defensive when a poster continuously posts in every thread about a school with derisive tone and opinion presented as fact? Its clear that this poster has a low opinion of LMS and does not want it associated with "real magnets." They have nothing to offer the thread as far as actual experience or information about the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also really interested in any and all impressions on the regular academics at Loiederman. Does the school have placement options for advanced math/English, for example? Our daughter would be so energized by the arts opportunities, but she’s in the gifted program in elementary school and I don’t know what to make of the academic landscape at Loiederman.

Yes they have advanced placement. I found that to be good and bad. My 6th grader had classes with 8th graders. She’s super small, and they (the other students) treated her either as a child genius, or were flat out mean. The teacher was aware and said they can be a tough group, but did nothing to change it. We pulled her mid year. One of her two friends also left mid year for similar reasons.The commute, lackadaisical response from the teacher and counselor, and mean older students were too much.

What does advanced placement mean in a middle school context? Are you talking about AP courses?

- Confused

No not AP, but above grade level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also really interested in any and all impressions on the regular academics at Loiederman. Does the school have placement options for advanced math/English, for example? Our daughter would be so energized by the arts opportunities, but she’s in the gifted program in elementary school and I don’t know what to make of the academic landscape at Loiederman.

Yes they have advanced placement. I found that to be good and bad. My 6th grader had classes with 8th graders. She’s super small, and they (the other students) treated her either as a child genius, or were flat out mean. The teacher was aware and said they can be a tough group, but did nothing to change it. We pulled her mid year. One of her two friends also left mid year for similar reasons.The commute, lackadaisical response from the teacher and counselor, and mean older students were too much.

What does advanced placement mean in a middle school context? Are you talking about AP courses?

- Confused

No not AP, but above grade level.

For example— in order to make up for not having “magnet level” math for 6th graders, they just put those students with on-level 8th graders. So while I appreciated that she was challenged with material, it made her challenged socially too. She was called out for little things like completing homework, and not being a jerk to the substitute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also really interested in any and all impressions on the regular academics at Loiederman. Does the school have placement options for advanced math/English, for example? Our daughter would be so energized by the arts opportunities, but she’s in the gifted program in elementary school and I don’t know what to make of the academic landscape at Loiederman.

Yes they have advanced placement. I found that to be good and bad. My 6th grader had classes with 8th graders. She’s super small, and they (the other students) treated her either as a child genius, or were flat out mean. The teacher was aware and said they can be a tough group, but did nothing to change it. We pulled her mid year. One of her two friends also left mid year for similar reasons.The commute, lackadaisical response from the teacher and counselor, and mean older students were too much.

What does advanced placement mean in a middle school context? Are you talking about AP courses?

- Confused

No not AP, but above grade level.

For example— in order to make up for not having “magnet level” math for 6th graders, they just put those students with on-level 8th graders. So while I appreciated that she was challenged with material, it made her challenged socially too. She was called out for little things like completing homework, and not being a jerk to the substitute.

That is so sad!

Does this mean, for e.g., if the kid is on the IM->Algebra 1->Geometry pathway, they pull the kid from IM and place her in Geometry skipping IM & Algebra 1, or the kid is pulled from IM and placed in math 8 ?

[Anonymous]

I don’t think anyone skips Algebra. I think it means instead of enriched IM the child is placed in an Algebra 1 class with 8th graders (who are also taking Algebra 1). But I am not PP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anyone skips Algebra. I think it means instead of enriched IM the child is placed in an Algebra 1 class with 8th graders (who are also taking Algebra 1). But I am not PP

Correct. And I don't think it's all that uncommon per se, they just didn't seem to have enough 6th and 7th graders in that group to create their own class.

There is also also mixed 6, 7, and 8th graders in all of the electives. All of which may be fine in theory, but when you are adding new incoming magnet 6th graders (who do not know anyone), with established, 8th graders it creates social tension.

I do hope the program is great for most students, it just wasn't a fit for my daughter, despite her personal art focus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anyone skips Algebra. I think it means instead of enriched IM the child is placed in an Algebra 1 class with 8th graders (who are also taking Algebra 1). But I am not PP

Correct. And I don't think it's all that uncommon per se, they just didn't seem to have enough 6th and 7th graders in that group to create their own class.

There is also also mixed 6, 7, and 8th graders in all of the electives. All of which may be fine in theory, but when you are adding new incoming magnet 6th graders (who do not know anyone), with established, 8th graders it creates social tension.

I do hope the program is great for most students, it just wasn't a fit for my daughter, despite her personal art focus.

This is the case at most middle schools. DD had 8th graders in her elective classes as a 6th grader at a different middle school (not msmc). Even if she knew some of them vaguely from her elementary school, there were also bound to be 8th graders who had gone to a different elementary school that feeds into the middle school. How was that not an issue at your home school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anyone skips Algebra. I think it means instead of enriched IM the child is placed in an Algebra 1 class with 8th graders (who are also taking Algebra 1). But I am not PP

Correct. And I don't think it's all that uncommon per se, they just didn't seem to have enough 6th and 7th graders in that group to create their own class.

There is also also mixed 6, 7, and 8th graders in all of the electives. All of which may be fine in theory, but when you are adding new incoming magnet 6th graders (who do not know anyone), with established, 8th graders it creates social tension.

I do hope the program is great for most students, it just wasn't a fit for my daughter, despite her personal art focus.

This is the case at most middle schools. DD had 8th graders in her elective classes as a 6th grader at a different middle school (not msmc). Even if she knew some of them vaguely from her elementary school, there were also bound to be 8th graders who had gone to a different elementary school that feeds into the middle school. How was that not an issue at your home school?

It's not an issue at our home school because she has a peer group from elementary school, the teachers seem to have control over their classrooms, and she (nor my older boys who went through the same middle school) have not come home crying and depressed over bullying. The teacher, vice principal, and counselor were not surprised and did nothing to fix it. When we told them we were pulling her from the school for these reasons, they responded, "Okay, we will pull her file and send to your home school."

I acknowledge that middle school is a difficult time for many kids, but also note our bad experience. I wish out experience was positive, as we were so excited to be accepted to the program.

[Anonymous]

It's sad to see Loiederman portrayed in such a negative light in these comments. DD is a freshman in HS now, but she loved her time there and goes back when she can to see teachers and old friends. She found it to be a very supportive environment, and commented how students from other feeder middle schools are much meaner than the students from Loiederman. They had an anti-bullying club there, and a couple of Loiederman students actually narrate an anti-bullying video on stopbullying.gov. Many of the students were typical performing arts kids - a little goofy, dramatic, out of the ordinary - but they found acceptance among their peers there. I'm sorry for the PP who had a bad experience, but our experience was very different. Academics were challenging at times, not at others, but DD was well prepared for HS and is taking honors/AP classes now.

[Anonymous]

http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/3/17/6/15/0787

No one is disputing the positive aspects of LMS' curriculum or that the program can be quite inspiring, and beneficial, for many students. If your child is interested, and gets in, great!--the program is unique, but why not go visit when classes are in session and ask all your questions before committing to enroll? Who *wants* to enroll and then find out that the program--as it is--is not what it seemed to be from the descriptions of it, or, worse, that the adults in charge don't care that your child is being bullied?

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/outreach/impact/art-helps-students-at-a-montgomery-county-middle-school-believe-in-themselves/65-598581841

Since it is not a secret that the police have been called for "hormones" why refuse to answer parents' questions about how frequently, and for what other reasons, the police are called?

https://wjla.com/news/local/silver-spring-teenagers-film-racy-encounter-during-school-day-113932

Many (all?) of the posts in this thread are offering honest comments; the students' individual experiences can vary widely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to see Loiederman portrayed in such a negative light in these comments. DD is a freshman in HS now, but she loved her time there and goes back when she can to see teachers and old friends. She found it to be a very supportive environment, and commented how students from other feeder middle schools are much meaner than the students from Loiederman. They had an anti-bullying club there, and a couple of Loiederman students actually narrate an anti-bullying video on stopbullying.gov. Many of the students were typical performing arts kids - a little goofy, dramatic, out of the ordinary - but they found acceptance among their peers there. I'm sorry for the PP who had a bad experience, but our experience was very different. Academics were challenging at times, not at others, but DD was well prepared for HS and is taking honors/AP classes now.

Thanks for the feedback on the school and your daughter's experience. Did you/your daughter notice that the academic classes had arts integration in them? I have heard that the teachers receive special training in arts integration, and I'm curious to know how much that gets infused in the academics and how different it is from what a child would receive at their home school (for out-of-bounds students).

Were the English classes challenging in terms of books assigned, writing assignments, and did she feel there were other children in her class who were in her peer group/learning at a high academic level?