Will tank on NNAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The teachers go over the instructions and do practice questions. It's enough for the kids who are going to do well in the NNAT.

I did not prep my kid at all. But he was also only six when he took it. And he is in AAP despite not doing particularly well on the NNAT. He did much better on the COGAT and I do really think he might've just not been taking the NNAT seriously due to being 6.
I do think they're taking that one really young, but I do personally think the committee knows that so it is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To each their own.

Perhaps I already prepped by giving my son a bit more time to get familiar with the instructions of the test.

But I don't go beyond that because it puts too much pressure on my DS. He's too young.

My beliefs are that I want my child to be self-motivated. I want him to work hard for himself, not to please his mom or dad. To me, that is non-negotiable and not a grey area. I've seen too many kids hate their parents in their teenage years and rebel or just simply burn out. I've seen kids behave perfectly throughout college and have mom issues in their 20's and 30's and not have successful relationships.

That means regardless of the score on NNAT, I tell him he did well as long as he did his best. If he doesn't get into AAP, as much as I want him to and think it's the best thing, I say "did you have a good day at school" and make sure that he enjoys his school life and learns every day. I'm active in his life and while I don't prep for the NNAT, I do make sure he does homework with care, have discussions on variety of things when I can and makes sure he learns and grows every day. While I care so very very very very much if he is on a path in life where he will have a variety of great choices in adulthood wrt profession, areas to live, etc. I will never spend a minute worrying about how if he got a 125 instead of 120, how that may change things.

That's how I mother. That's my style. It is with a great deal with conviction and purpose that I don't prep for NNAT.

But perhaps I already did just by showing him some sample questions a few nights ago and making sure he understands the instructions.

I'm not saying that is the same as spending an hour every day for six months doing practice questions, but that IS prepping and it is weird to write a big long "I don't prep with a great deal of conviction" post when you did prep, but only a little.

[Anonymous]

OP, my kids had very average scores on the NNAT and did much better on the CoGAT, were admitted to AAP and are thriving. My understanding is that the CoGAT score and GBRS (teacher assessment of gifted behaviors) are more important.

To the person who said that parents who think the NNAT is hard are not gifted (and do not have gifted offspring), I beg to differ. I was in GT from 4th grade on with WISC scores on the border of moderately and highly gifted (144-145), and I find the NNAT utterly confounding. It tests a very specific visuospatial intelligence that I do not have.

[Anonymous]

One NNAT book I bought only had the answer key. The answers did not make sense to me so I had to buy another book with answers and explanations. I never considered myself to be below average intelligence to be the least. I did very well in school, SAT, etc.

I find that the explanations only reference one pattern going on and there would be another pattern going on that contradicts the correct answer. I hope the real test has better questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not saying that is the same as spending an hour every day for six months doing practice questions, but that IS prepping and it is weird to write a big long "I don't prep with a great deal of conviction" post when you did prep, but only a little.

^^^ This proves the point that a lot of people say they aren't prepping when they actually are prepping. It's so naive to imagine that the same county that has many test prep centers, TJ prep classes for elementary students(!), a kumon on every corner, kids prepping for the IAAT, etc. doesn't also have tons of prepping for the NNAT and CogAT. A lot of people really want their kids to have access to the best education possible, and they will do whatever they can to improve their chances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not saying that is the same as spending an hour every day for six months doing practice questions, but that IS prepping and it is weird to write a big long "I don't prep with a great deal of conviction" post when you did prep, but only a little.

^^^ This proves the point that a lot of people say they aren't prepping when they actually are prepping. It's so naive to imagine that the same county that has many test prep centers, TJ prep classes for elementary students(!), a kumon on every corner, kids prepping for the IAAT, etc. doesn't also have tons of prepping for the NNAT and CogAT. A lot of people really want their kids to have access to the best education possible, and they will do whatever they can to improve their chances.

Where's the TJ prep for elementary? I don't believe you... that's amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this is not a gifted program, just an advanced one, so there is nothing wrong with wanting your kids in it. Most of the parents in this area are advanced, and they want the same for their kids.

Teachers say that you can't prep for those tests, so you can prep away, and it according to the teachers it won't matter much. Our AART told me that you can't get more than a couple of points through prepping.

probably companies make tons of money on test prep through risk adverse parents with smart kids.

Yes it is.

Gifted programs are required under Virginia law. This is Fairfax's.

The FX Co program ALSO serves gifted students, but it is not designed exclusively for them. There are too many students that are not gifted and are part of this program. Also, if the program was ONLY targeting gifted students, all you'd need to get it would be an IQ test, not ability tests.

The program is mediocre for really gifted, highly gifted, and profoundly gifted children. The program is very good for intelligent high achievers.

For example to be gifted in any area, you need to be a few years ahead, not one year in math and at the same grade level, but more in depth in other subjects. If you look at the JHU program for the gifted they want the child to do work several years ahead of the child's grade in order to be found eligible for the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this is not a gifted program, just an advanced one, so there is nothing wrong with wanting your kids in it. Most of the parents in this area are advanced, and they want the same for their kids.

Teachers say that you can't prep for those tests, so you can prep away, and it according to the teachers it won't matter much. Our AART told me that you can't get more than a couple of points through prepping.

probably companies make tons of money on test prep through risk adverse parents with smart kids.

Yes it is.

Gifted programs are required under Virginia law. This is Fairfax's.

The FX Co program ALSO serves gifted students, but it is not designed exclusively for them. There are too many students that are not gifted and are part of this program. Also, if the program was ONLY targeting gifted students, all you'd need to get it would be an IQ test, not ability tests.

The program is mediocre for really gifted, highly gifted, and profoundly gifted children. The program is very good for intelligent high achievers.

For example to be gifted in any area, you need to be a few years ahead, not one year in math and at the same grade level, but more in depth in other subjects. If you look at the JHU program for the gifted they want the child to do work several years ahead of the child's grade in order to be found eligible for the program.

There are lots of ways to have a gifted program. Using test scores that are 2 std deviations above the norm, as Fairfax does, is common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this is not a gifted program, just an advanced one, so there is nothing wrong with wanting your kids in it. Most of the parents in this area are advanced, and they want the same for their kids.

Teachers say that you can't prep for those tests, so you can prep away, and it according to the teachers it won't matter much. Our AART told me that you can't get more than a couple of points through prepping.

probably companies make tons of money on test prep through risk adverse parents with smart kids.

Yes it is.

Gifted programs are required under Virginia law. This is Fairfax's.

The FX Co program ALSO serves gifted students, but it is not designed exclusively for them. There are too many students that are not gifted and are part of this program. Also, if the program was ONLY targeting gifted students, all you'd need to get it would be an IQ test, not ability tests.

The program is mediocre for really gifted, highly gifted, and profoundly gifted children. The program is very good for intelligent high achievers.

For example to be gifted in any area, you need to be a few years ahead, not one year in math and at the same grade level, but more in depth in other subjects. If you look at the JHU program for the gifted they want the child to do work several years ahead of the child's grade in order to be found eligible for the program.

They use ability tests because IQ tests are too expensive and time consuming to administer. I don't think it's a gifted program either because it really is just a faster paced curriculum, but these tests are frequently used for gifted programs instead of IQ tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not saying that is the same as spending an hour every day for six months doing practice questions, but that IS prepping and it is weird to write a big long "I don't prep with a great deal of conviction" post when you did prep, but only a little.

^^^ This proves the point that a lot of people say they aren't prepping when they actually are prepping. It's so naive to imagine that the same county that has many test prep centers, TJ prep classes for elementary students(!), a kumon on every corner, kids prepping for the IAAT, etc. doesn't also have tons of prepping for the NNAT and CogAT. A lot of people really want their kids to have access to the best education possible, and they will do whatever they can to improve their chances.

With all the ways to prep for tests mentioned above, showing a kid a few sample questions and explaining the directions hardly qualifies as "prepping," especially when there are kids who have been doing prep questions on a regular basis for months ahead of time. The sample questions and directions are meant to be seen ahead of time- that is very different from practicing the same type of questions over and over again in advance of the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not saying that is the same as spending an hour every day for six months doing practice questions, but that IS prepping and it is weird to write a big long "I don't prep with a great deal of conviction" post when you did prep, but only a little.

^^^ This proves the point that a lot of people say they aren't prepping when they actually are prepping. It's so naive to imagine that the same county that has many test prep centers, TJ prep classes for elementary students(!), a kumon on every corner, kids prepping for the IAAT, etc. doesn't also have tons of prepping for the NNAT and CogAT. A lot of people really want their kids to have access to the best education possible, and they will do whatever they can to improve their chances.

With all the ways to prep for tests mentioned above, showing a kid a few sample questions and explaining the directions hardly qualifies as "prepping," especially when there are kids who have been doing prep questions on a regular basis for months ahead of time. The sample questions and directions are meant to be seen ahead of time- that is very different from practicing the same type of questions over and over again in advance of the test.

Yes, when parents do that, it's prepping.

It's only one test in 1st grade. They're just 6-7 year olds. FCPS understands that some students will get this type of test and others won't, and that some might have done better on it with another year's maturity, or with a different day with more sleep and better breakfast. If your DC scores highly on the NNAT, good. If not, then it doesn't hurt anything. Literally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Former fcps teacher here who taught first grade and administered the nnat many times:

When someone (adult) saw the nnat and told me it hard, the response generally is because that person isn't gifted. I'm not being mean at all...that is just the truth.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the NNAT, though. My kid scored high 130s FSIQ on WISC with a fluid reasoning score that hit the test ceiling (>99.9th percentile, subscores of 19), so he's undoubtedly gifted. He didn't score "in-pool" on the NNAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not saying that is the same as spending an hour every day for six months doing practice questions, but that IS prepping and it is weird to write a big long "I don't prep with a great deal of conviction" post when you did prep, but only a little.

^^^ This proves the point that a lot of people say they aren't prepping when they actually are prepping. It's so naive to imagine that the same county that has many test prep centers, TJ prep classes for elementary students(!), a kumon on every corner, kids prepping for the IAAT, etc. doesn't also have tons of prepping for the NNAT and CogAT. A lot of people really want their kids to have access to the best education possible, and they will do whatever they can to improve their chances.

With all the ways to prep for tests mentioned above, showing a kid a few sample questions and explaining the directions hardly qualifies as "prepping," especially when there are kids who have been doing prep questions on a regular basis for months ahead of time. The sample questions and directions are meant to be seen ahead of time- that is very different from practicing the same type of questions over and over again in advance of the test.

Yes, when parents do that, it's prepping.

It's only one test in 1st grade. They're just 6-7 year olds. FCPS understands that some students will get this type of test and others won't, and that some might have done better on it with another year's maturity, or with a different day with more sleep and better breakfast. If your DC scores highly on the NNAT, good. If not, then it doesn't hurt anything. Literally.

I totally agree that it is silly to prep for the first and second grade tests, and I also think there are lots of people willing to tell parents all sorts of things about how AAP is better than the regular classroom for every kid. Teaching a kid how to follow directions and looking at two or three questions on one occasion just doesn't fall into the category of prepping when there are so many parents engaging in regular practice of the same types of questions that appear on these tests. Very different situations here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not saying that is the same as spending an hour every day for six months doing practice questions, but that IS prepping and it is weird to write a big long "I don't prep with a great deal of conviction" post when you did prep, but only a little.

^^^ This proves the point that a lot of people say they aren't prepping when they actually are prepping. It's so naive to imagine that the same county that has many test prep centers, TJ prep classes for elementary students(!), a kumon on every corner, kids prepping for the IAAT, etc. doesn't also have tons of prepping for the NNAT and CogAT. A lot of people really want their kids to have access to the best education possible, and they will do whatever they can to improve their chances.

With all the ways to prep for tests mentioned above, showing a kid a few sample questions and explaining the directions hardly qualifies as "prepping," especially when there are kids who have been doing prep questions on a regular basis for months ahead of time. The sample questions and directions are meant to be seen ahead of time- that is very different from practicing the same type of questions over and over again in advance of the test.

Yes, when parents do that, it's prepping.

It's only one test in 1st grade. They're just 6-7 year olds. FCPS understands that some students will get this type of test and others won't, and that some might have done better on it with another year's maturity, or with a different day with more sleep and better breakfast. If your DC scores highly on the NNAT, good. If not, then it doesn't hurt anything. Literally.

I totally agree that it is silly to prep for the first and second grade tests, and I also think there are lots of people willing to tell parents all sorts of things about how AAP is better than the regular classroom for every kid. Teaching a kid how to follow directions and looking at two or three questions on one occasion just doesn't fall into the category of prepping when there are so many parents engaging in regular practice of the same types of questions that appear on these tests. Very different situations here.

Keep trying to convince yourself so you can keep bragging you didn’t prep. You did prep. Just not as much as some others did. By your logic someone who spent 30 minutes a night for two weeks didn’t prep because others did it for months. And those people didn’t prep because others took some type of prep class. You prepped a little. Period.