Move from DC to central PA for job

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should definitely spend time in the area before deciding to move--maybe two visits if you can manage it. My inlaws live near Allentown and you couldn't pay me to move there. Dull small towns, long cold winters, no thanks. That said, I just went to Philly and liked it a lot more than I expected so at least that's an option you'd have for weekend trips.

If you're looking for a small town feel where everyone's more interested in the high school football game than what's happening in politics, then maybe it's a better fit. My relatives moved from Philly to a small town near Allentown and they've lived there happily almost 20 years. Their kids have grown up in the same house pretty much all their lives and they've put down deep roots in the area, so I don't think it was a bad move for them. Different strokes for different folks.

AEA?

[Anonymous]

I posted in the other thread. We moved to a similar sized city in “flyover” country from the DMV. We have been here almost ten years and it is fine now – but it took a lot on adjustment. A few tips/observations.

1. You have likely underestimated how much the DMV “culture” has grown on you and that will be readily apparent once you move. If you are going to move, it only works if you are willing to embrace the culture somewhat and you are not comparing it to DMV at every chance. You may be souring on the DMV, but that will be harder than you think.

2. If you want to make friends, you are going to have to participate in things that are important in that community, whether it is little league, a church cause or the love of a sports team. You are an outsider and people are not going to meet you half way. Integrating into the community will mostly be on you.

3. Moving for the COL is not a recipe for happiness. That comes with tradeoffs and some sacrifices that you may have to make are not even apparent to you yet. For us, it was the dearth of good quality restaurants. Although it is improving, people here do not make the money nor have the appetite for the variety of fine dining that we took for granted in the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Family is from Allentown. Love the Lehigh area! The people are so kind and caring. Saucon Valley is nice - has Whole Foods or Fresh Market, Emmaus is super cute, Allentown area up on the hill is very nice. You must eat at the Brass Rail Restaurant in Allentown. Honestly, I’d move there today if I could. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

We did this once OP and moved from DC to Cleveland where my DH was from. We lasted for 4 years there and had to move back to DC. I hated the weather, the city, etc. I would advise you not to do it. There are so many more job options in DC. It may take a while to find better jobs here, but it is worth the wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm from that area (generally - closer to Phil though). I think you need to think about what you want. What do you do for a living? Unless it's healthcare, you aren't guaranteed a job in that area. So do you want to not work - bc that is a real possibility?

Also, I think it's right to view this as the last offer for a while. If he goes there and doesn't like it, it's not like he can just try to lateral to a big firm or boutique in Philadelphia bc that won't work with a 1 hr+ commute. Nor are there tons of other in house options to be had. So if you guys go there and don't adjust to the area/he doesn't like the job -- you need to consider that you're moving again. (For that reason -- I would NOT buy a house immediately -- things do not sell in that area like they do here, you can easily be stuck with a house on the market for years -- even given this hot economy).

Finally consider that that area is pretty insular. Everyone I went to HS with pretty much still lives there or within 40 min of where we grew up. So do all their extended families. That means their priority is for their kids to play with their cousin's kids on the weekends etc., extended family get togethers etc. It can be hard to move to places like that knowing no one. That being said, you could luck out. You could end up in a neighborhood or school classroom or sports team (if there are kids) that want to include the new family.

Unless the job is with Vanguard (which I don't think it is bc that's not as far west in Pa.), I would think long and hard about the mobility/exit options from that type of job. (I mention Vanguard bc a job there is super marketable in the financial services space in any number of other east coast areas should you leave.)

OP, I would think about what this poster is saying. I live in an area like this where everyone grew up here and will die here. Very tough to career network and people already have their friends.

I'm the PP you're quoting -- one more thought. Whenever these threads come up people here are quick to say -- oh DC/Nova is soooooo awful, I'd go in a heartbeat bc you can get a huge mansion plus you're ONLY 1 hr from Philadelphia and 2 hrs from NYC so NBD. Reality is -- these people have never lived in such places. You need to consider whether you can be happy in the Allentown vicinity day to day. Chances are you'll go to Philadelphia and NYC somewhere between 1-6x/yr depending on your interests. Yet you have to spend every weeknight and weekend in the Allentown area. You need to figure out whether you think you can find a community there; whether you can find a job/do some serious networking there (if you want); or if it all seems a bit "settled" and insular. Bc the reality is if you're unhappy 51.5 weeks/yr, it will not matter one bit that you went to Philadelphia 2 months ago to see the orchestra and took in a long weekend in NYC at Christmas. What will matter then is that it feels like you go to work, come home and sit home alone because it feels like everyone in the world has their grandkids or cousin's kids or whoever visiting every weekend so they aren't up for seeing you.

And BTW you're moving to an area that's fairly provincial. Not truly provincial like say Williamsport -- but still the kind of area where if you say -- Mike & I had a great weekend, went to Philly to see the orchestra, some (not all) neighbors will recoil in horror that you went into the city. These are people who never go and don't understand why anyone wants anything to do with the city bc it's just so awful. Except the sports fans, they're ok going to Eagles games because it's highway driving, you exit the highway, park at the stadium, watch game, and come right back; no actual venturing into the city to eat at local restaurants or walk around a market bc it is soooooo dangerous bc you know . . . [black people live in the city . . . .

Ignorant post. Know many from the Atown who regularly (1-2x/month) head to philly or nyc. Know a few with southern jersey beach houses. It’s more cultured than people think. I know!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Family is from Allentown. Love the Lehigh area! The people are so kind and caring. Saucon Valley is nice - has Whole Foods or Fresh Market, Emmaus is super cute, Allentown area up on the hill is very nice. You must eat at the Brass Rail Restaurant in Allentown. Honestly, I’d move there today if I could. Good luck!

You'd move today bc your family is from there. You likely went to high school there etc. Even if your family has moved away or you didn't grow up there, you can always be introduced to people as so-and-so who had the house on the hill, this is their niece. Way way different for a true outsider. Ask me how I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm from that area (generally - closer to Phil though). I think you need to think about what you want. What do you do for a living? Unless it's healthcare, you aren't guaranteed a job in that area. So do you want to not work - bc that is a real possibility?

Also, I think it's right to view this as the last offer for a while. If he goes there and doesn't like it, it's not like he can just try to lateral to a big firm or boutique in Philadelphia bc that won't work with a 1 hr+ commute. Nor are there tons of other in house options to be had. So if you guys go there and don't adjust to the area/he doesn't like the job -- you need to consider that you're moving again. (For that reason -- I would NOT buy a house immediately -- things do not sell in that area like they do here, you can easily be stuck with a house on the market for years -- even given this hot economy).

Finally consider that that area is pretty insular. Everyone I went to HS with pretty much still lives there or within 40 min of where we grew up. So do all their extended families. That means their priority is for their kids to play with their cousin's kids on the weekends etc., extended family get togethers etc. It can be hard to move to places like that knowing no one. That being said, you could luck out. You could end up in a neighborhood or school classroom or sports team (if there are kids) that want to include the new family.

Unless the job is with Vanguard (which I don't think it is bc that's not as far west in Pa.), I would think long and hard about the mobility/exit options from that type of job. (I mention Vanguard bc a job there is super marketable in the financial services space in any number of other east coast areas should you leave.)

OP, I would think about what this poster is saying. I live in an area like this where everyone grew up here and will die here. Very tough to career network and people already have their friends.

I'm the PP you're quoting -- one more thought. Whenever these threads come up people here are quick to say -- oh DC/Nova is soooooo awful, I'd go in a heartbeat bc you can get a huge mansion plus you're ONLY 1 hr from Philadelphia and 2 hrs from NYC so NBD. Reality is -- these people have never lived in such places. You need to consider whether you can be happy in the Allentown vicinity day to day. Chances are you'll go to Philadelphia and NYC somewhere between 1-6x/yr depending on your interests. Yet you have to spend every weeknight and weekend in the Allentown area. You need to figure out whether you think you can find a community there; whether you can find a job/do some serious networking there (if you want); or if it all seems a bit "settled" and insular. Bc the reality is if you're unhappy 51.5 weeks/yr, it will not matter one bit that you went to Philadelphia 2 months ago to see the orchestra and took in a long weekend in NYC at Christmas. What will matter then is that it feels like you go to work, come home and sit home alone because it feels like everyone in the world has their grandkids or cousin's kids or whoever visiting every weekend so they aren't up for seeing you.

And BTW you're moving to an area that's fairly provincial. Not truly provincial like say Williamsport -- but still the kind of area where if you say -- Mike & I had a great weekend, went to Philly to see the orchestra, some (not all) neighbors will recoil in horror that you went into the city. These are people who never go and don't understand why anyone wants anything to do with the city bc it's just so awful. Except the sports fans, they're ok going to Eagles games because it's highway driving, you exit the highway, park at the stadium, watch game, and come right back; no actual venturing into the city to eat at local restaurants or walk around a market bc it is soooooo dangerous bc you know . . . [black people live in the city . . . .

Ignorant post. Know many from the Atown who regularly (1-2x/month) head to philly or nyc. Know a few with southern jersey beach houses. It’s more cultured than people think. I know!

Ok so you're heading there 1x/month or even 2x/month. Great. How about the other 1-2 weekends a month? OP has to decide whether she'd be ok stuck in that area for when she does have to stay. You can't use NYC and Philly as your outs all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Family is from Allentown. Love the Lehigh area! The people are so kind and caring. Saucon Valley is nice - has Whole Foods or Fresh Market, Emmaus is super cute, Allentown area up on the hill is very nice. You must eat at the Brass Rail Restaurant in Allentown. Honestly, I’d move there today if I could. Good luck!

You'd move today bc your family is from there. You likely went to high school there etc. Even if your family has moved away or you didn't grow up there, you can always be introduced to people as so-and-so who had the house on the hill, this is their niece. Way way different for a true outsider. Ask me how I know.

You ARE right! This is the PP you quoted. I love it because I’ve got 50+ relatives (including 2nd, 3rd, twice removed cousins, aunts, uncles, etc...the whole range). Maybe I wouldn’t move if I knew no one. I love it because wherever I go, folks know my family name.

Curiously, how do you know?

[Anonymous]

OP here -- thanks all for the feedback. I appreciate all the different insights. I guess our fear is that if he says no to this position, if he is offered it, another in house won't come along for 3-5+ years, they are really hard to come by. Also, this is not en entry level most junior in house counsel position - its lower mid level and it is at a huge Fortune 500 company which is a great, secure place to land. The culture piece and the insularity is one to think about... I honestly don't think we would go into the city much, with kids (we have 1 DD now and expect to have another) I imagine our weekends will involve sports and social things with their schools and friends. My employment situation gives me pause but what really is wanting me not to do this is the dread of selling and buying a new house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Family is from Allentown. Love the Lehigh area! The people are so kind and caring. Saucon Valley is nice - has Whole Foods or Fresh Market, Emmaus is super cute, Allentown area up on the hill is very nice. You must eat at the Brass Rail Restaurant in Allentown. Honestly, I’d move there today if I could. Good luck!

You'd move today bc your family is from there. You likely went to high school there etc. Even if your family has moved away or you didn't grow up there, you can always be introduced to people as so-and-so who had the house on the hill, this is their niece. Way way different for a true outsider. Ask me how I know.

You ARE right! This is the PP you quoted. I love it because I’ve got 50+ relatives (including 2nd, 3rd, twice removed cousins, aunts, uncles, etc...the whole range). Maybe I wouldn’t move if I knew no one. I love it because wherever I go, folks know my family name.

Curiously, how do you know?

I'm from the area -- not exactly there -- about 20-30 min closer to Phil. and it's like that even in that area despite its proximity to a major city.

[Anonymous]

I grew up in the area. It has changed a lot in the past twenty years. It's not so insular; the new construction neighborhood near my parents is basically all transplants from elsewhere. The area reminds me of the area around Annapolis or the further out MD suburbs. It's suburban/rural, not glamorous, but totally fine especially if you want a house, decent schools, kid activities, and a decent QOL. There is Wegman's and Whole Foods and lots of local music and theatre through Muhlenberg, Lehigh, and other colleges. And it's much more like living in a further-out suburb than living in the Midwest. People even commute to NYC, crazy as that sounds. There's less money but you're unlikely to die of culture shock.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the area. It has changed a lot in the past twenty years. It's not so insular; the new construction neighborhood near my parents is basically all transplants from elsewhere. The area reminds me of the area around Annapolis or the further out MD suburbs. It's suburban/rural, not glamorous, but totally fine especially if you want a house, decent schools, kid activities, and a decent QOL. There is Wegman's and Whole Foods and lots of local music and theatre through Muhlenberg, Lehigh, and other colleges. And it's much more like living in a further-out suburb than living in the Midwest. People even commute to NYC, crazy as that sounds. There's less money but you're unlikely to die of culture shock.

it just sounds like people giving up and waiting to die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- thanks all for the feedback. I appreciate all the different insights. I guess our fear is that if he says no to this position, if he is offered it, another in house won't come along for 3-5+ years, they are really hard to come by. Also, this is not en entry level most junior in house counsel position - its lower mid level and it is at a huge Fortune 500 company which is a great, secure place to land. The culture piece and the insularity is one to think about... I honestly don't think we would go into the city much, with kids (we have 1 DD now and expect to have another) I imagine our weekends will involve sports and social things with their schools and friends. My employment situation gives me pause but what really is wanting me not to do this is the dread of selling and buying a new house.

I don't think there are THAT many Fortune 500 companies with offices in the Lehigh Valley. So one thing to consider is whether this would be the last move if you worked for this company, or if there are other potential moves if he moves up the ladder.

By chance, were you or your husband in a fraternity/sorority in college? Bc there may be a Lehigh Valley alumnae group that you could reach out to, to ask some questions and maybe show you around if you head up for a visit.

[Anonymous]

If you go there and hate it you can always go somewhere else. I think you will make yourself crazy if you think of this as the place where you can never leave.

Assuming your husband is going to be picking up good skills and contacts - would this put him in line for future jobs elsewhere?