Speaking of having to advocate for ourselves and our babies as patients...

[Anonymous]

So ... are non-white women just assumed to be stupid and not know anything about their bodies or medical histories?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So ... are non-white women just assumed to be stupid and not know anything about their bodies or medical histories?

Excuse me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So ... are non-white women just assumed to be stupid and not know anything about their bodies or medical histories?

I'm the OP, and I think that yes, in general, there is a cultural assumption that people of color are less educated than white folks. I think there is also a cultural assumption that women overreact to things. I think for women of color, those two assumptions collide to create a situation where your concerns may be taken less seriously than a white woman's concerns would be. I do think that stats that demonstrate poorer outcomes for women of color nationally are strongly correlated with poverty, but I think it's hard to separate the two, given that this happened to Serena Williams, who is hardly poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such an important issue facing women in America, and as this article points out, especially black women. How could the nurses and doctors of Serena Williams not be paying closer attention to her? I mean, if they aren't listening to a celebrity athlete, who are they listening to?

Postpartum nurses aren't a specialized field like labor and delivery nurses are.

RN here. In some states, postpartum nurses have up to 10 patients (5 moms, 5 babies aka "couplet care"). They have specialized training and often NRP certification is expected, though I'm not sure if it's mandatory. The gold standard is California's mandated ante/postpartum ratio of 4:1, though only California has mandated nurse/patient ratios.

I delivered at MWHC in DC with the midwives. DD was born in late in the evening and I was seen and briefly examined by a midwife each of the 2 mornings I was on the postpartum unit. I remember the postpartum nurses as being somewhat hands-off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So ... are non-white women just assumed to be stupid and not know anything about their bodies or medical histories?

Non-black nurses and doctors often have latent prejudices towards black patients, especially when it comes to pain tolerance, prescription of pain killers, and lack of concern for fears/discomfort expressed by black patients. It's massive issue in hospital in America.

Serena Williams is the most successful American athlete alive (man or woman) and worth 9-figures, but still her nurses still wouldn't listen to her. I wonder why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ... are non-white women just assumed to be stupid and not know anything about their bodies or medical histories?

Non-black nurses and doctors often have latent prejudices towards black patients, especially when it comes to pain tolerance, prescription of pain killers, and lack of concern for fears/discomfort expressed by black patients. It's massive issue in hospital in America.

Serena Williams is the most successful American athlete alive (man or woman) and worth 9-figures, but still her nurses still wouldn't listen to her. I wonder why?

I won't disagree with this. But here on DCUM there are threads of rich white women not getting listened to or help either. This problem isn't just prejudice. There's something wrong with postpartum care in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ... are non-white women just assumed to be stupid and not know anything about their bodies or medical histories?

I'm the OP, and I think that yes, in general, there is a cultural assumption that people of color are less educated than white folks. I think there is also a cultural assumption that women overreact to things. I think for women of color, those two assumptions collide to create a situation where your concerns may be taken less seriously than a white woman's concerns would be. I do think that stats that demonstrate poorer outcomes for women of color nationally are strongly correlated with poverty, but I think it's hard to separate the two, given that this happened to Serena Williams, who is hardly poor.

+1

And yes, having followed Every Mother Counts and March For Moms right here in DC, statistics have shown that even taking into account education and access to resources, black women are facing much poorer outcomes than their white counter-parts when it comes to maternal morbidity and mortality. There are groups looking for answers as to why, but we don't have a good answer. The American College of Nurse Midwives has taken this on in particular, and DC midwives have been leading the rally cry around systemic racism and misogyny in health care and working to educate their own and others on how to improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ... are non-white women just assumed to be stupid and not know anything about their bodies or medical histories?

Non-black nurses and doctors often have latent prejudices towards black patients, especially when it comes to pain tolerance, prescription of pain killers, and lack of concern for fears/discomfort expressed by black patients. It's massive issue in hospital in America.

Serena Williams is the most successful American athlete alive (man or woman) and worth 9-figures, but still her nurses still wouldn't listen to her. I wonder why?

Research has shown medical professionals of all races have these biases against patients who are POC. It's not only whites. Just putting that out there lest this thread devolve into a race war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ... are non-white women just assumed to be stupid and not know anything about their bodies or medical histories?

Non-black nurses and doctors often have latent prejudices towards black patients, especially when it comes to pain tolerance, prescription of pain killers, and lack of concern for fears/discomfort expressed by black patients. It's massive issue in hospital in America.

Serena Williams is the most successful American athlete alive (man or woman) and worth 9-figures, but still her nurses still wouldn't listen to her. I wonder why?

I won't disagree with this. But here on DCUM there are threads of rich white women not getting listened to or help either. This problem isn't just prejudice. There's something wrong with postpartum care in America.

Has anyone on this thread said that the problem is just racial prejudice? Clearly racism isn't the only problem, but it is a big problem:

https://www.propublica.org/article/nothing-protects-black-women-from-dying-in-pregnancy-and-childbirth

Alarming Racial Differences in Maternal Mortality "In the United States, black women are 2 to 6 times more likely to die from complications of pregnancy than white women, depending on where they live (American Medical Association, 1999)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1595019/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Damn, where are you delivering your babies? I had my vitals taken regularly and had both doctors and nurses palpate my uterus and check discharge (both asking about volume and looking at pad after palpating) a few times postpartum in the hospital. I also had a pelvic exam at my 6 week appointment with time to ask about any concerns. My delivery was very smooth and routine.

The pediatrician saw my baby very regularly, particularly because he was sent down to the special care nursery to go under the lights within 24 hrs of birth. He received great care and we didn't have any additional complications.

I delivered at Sibley and would recommend.

OP here.

I delivered at Sibley.

NP here - also delivered at Sibley by c-section. My OB checked in with me daily, and looked at my incision each time. Nurses checked my blood pressure and palpated me at least twice daily. They also asked me about pain levels regularly. My pediatrician came to the room and examined baby 2 times.

I have delivered 3X at Sibley, with same pediatrician and OB (who are both POC). I am also a POC and while I agree there are institutional problems with healthcare, one approach to self-advocacy is to find doctors that you feel you can trust to listen to you.

[Anonymous]

Women--of all races--are just not empowered in this country to make our own medical decisions about pregnancy and birth. And it shows in our absolutely dreadful maternal mortality and morbidity statistics.

Interestingly, the book All Natural has an excellent chapter on childbirth in which the author compared the data from the Family Health & Birth Center in NE DC and found that practice had significantly better maternal outcomes than the city's and country's overall dismal outcomes, despite serving a mostly low-income, non-white population. His hypothesis is because the midwives' approach is more woman-centered/high-touch/low-intervention.

[Anonymous]

I've written before here about the abysmal experience I had birthing here in DC. I was not listened to or cared for. And I found out when I looked for a lawyer that nobody was interested in lawsuits around birth unless something had happened to the baby. If something happens to the mother, nobody is interested. Unless, perhaps, she is dead. Same with women's postpartum and postmenopausal heath - when all those birth injuries come back to haunt us with incontinence and prolapse. Solutions to these problems are poor. And yet, men have viagra . . . .

In Williams' interview with Vogue, she stands her ground with the nurse who dismisses her at the hospital. She knows her medical issue and is a formidable fighter in general, media savvy, lots of practice speaking up for herself, etc. Not many woman with a terrifying situation like that - just after going through what sounds like a brutal labor - would have been able to stand their ground so convincingly. And yet - unless she had done that, she might also be dead. A national treasure like Serena Williams!!!! Which brings me to the women of color piece. Since I went through a traumatic labor/deliver and aftermath, many friends have reached out to me to share stories, or when they needed help in similar situations. One of these was a woman of color who had severe complications from a routine surgical procedure. Knowing her story and seeing how much she suffered - and how totally avoidable her injuries were - convinced me that as much as I was ignored and neglected, it is much worse for women of color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women--of all races--are just not empowered in this country to make our own medical decisions about pregnancy and birth. And it shows in our absolutely dreadful maternal mortality and morbidity statistics.

Interestingly, the book All Natural has an excellent chapter on childbirth in which the author compared the data from the Family Health & Birth Center in NE DC and found that practice had significantly better maternal outcomes than the city's and country's overall dismal outcomes, despite serving a mostly low-income, non-white population. His hypothesis is because the midwives' approach is more woman-centered/high-touch/low-intervention.

It's not because it's "low intervention"!! What high-risk women like Serena Williams (and the moms/babies whose terrible care cause UMC to close its maternity ward) need MORE intervention, not less. Family Health & Birth likely has better outcomes due to just better and more attentive care -- which yes, includes in some cases eliminated unneeded interventions, but for the *life saving* cases, they'd be referred to WHC for lots of interventions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ... are non-white women just assumed to be stupid and not know anything about their bodies or medical histories?

Non-black nurses and doctors often have latent prejudices towards black patients, especially when it comes to pain tolerance, prescription of pain killers, and lack of concern for fears/discomfort expressed by black patients. It's massive issue in hospital in America.

Serena Williams is the most successful American athlete alive (man or woman) and worth 9-figures, but still her nurses still wouldn't listen to her. I wonder why?

I won't disagree with this. But here on DCUM there are threads of rich white women not getting listened to or help either. This problem isn't just prejudice. There's something wrong with postpartum care in America.

Has anyone on this thread said that the problem is just racial prejudice? Clearly racism isn't the only problem, but it is a big problem:

https://www.propublica.org/article/nothing-protects-black-women-from-dying-in-pregnancy-and-childbirth

Alarming Racial Differences in Maternal Mortality "In the United States, black women are 2 to 6 times more likely to die from complications of pregnancy than white women, depending on where they live (American Medical Association, 1999)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1595019/

As in all things, issues particular to women are given short shrift, and then minority women are given even shorter shrift. It’s chilling. Really: Serena Williams wasn’t taken seriously? That woman working in the relevant medical field wasn’t taken seriously? It’s nuts.

[Anonymous]

I had a birth center birth and my experience is just so different. Specifically post-partum, immediately after giving birth, a midwife was in my room unless I asked her to step out. I stayed 10 hours and felt so well cared for. I was constantly monitored to ensure I was capable of going home (otherwise I would have had to transfer to the hospital).

I received a phone call the next day to review caring for my stitches and vagina. We also went over charting diapers and feedings, and generally make sure everything was okay.

A CNM and RN came our home at about 36 hours after birth (6 am Thursday delivery and they visited Saturday afternoon). Not only did they do all the newborn screenings, check baby's weight, blood sugar, and bilirubin, they also spent time checking on me. I know my stitches were checked along with making sure my uterus was contracting.

Because baby failed the hearing test on one side, they had us come back to the center at 1 week to re-test (he passed). While we were there, the midwife did another check of my stitches and spent a decent amount of time with us just making sure we were doing okay and chat with us.

Basically, I feel like I had way more attentive care from my health care team and I wasn't ever in the hospital! That's nuts. I wasn't being monitored 24/7. I had a very low risk birth and fortunately developed zero complications. And yet I had an entire team focused on me (and baby, but I really felt like they never shoved me aside for baby) and ensuring I was properly taken care of. WHY can't this be done in a hospital setting? For every single woman, regardless of her race, socio-economic status, relationship status? It's infuriating. I am grateful I had the option to go outside norm, but it is a luxury that most women don't have. And, yes, I very much recognize it was a luxury along with a damn good bit of luck to have a uncomplicated pregnancy and birth.