What do you consider an UMC HHI?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are two GS-14 scientists, and we need both our incomes to afford the mortgage and childcare, have modest house inside beltway with good schools, and vacation twice a year (once in a summer beach vacation, winter is flight to visit family for holidays)

We max our retirement and have some 529 money, but our kids will likely need loans unless they get merit or sport sholarships.

so even though we make almost $300k, I feel this is a pretty typical middle class lifestyle, but because housing and childcare is SOOO expensive it constrains us.

This is pretty much the income you need to not have LONG commute and have decent schools in a real house.

Granted when we retire, in theory we can sell the house and move someplace with lower COL so our retirement could be pretty comfortable but a bit of a gamble in such an illiquid asset.

Seems upper middle to me. Particularly the inside the beltway part.

[Anonymous]

$800k in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:$800k in this area.

Funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are two GS-14 scientists, and we need both our incomes to afford the mortgage and childcare, have modest house inside beltway with good schools, and vacation twice a year (once in a summer beach vacation, winter is flight to visit family for holidays)

We max our retirement and have some 529 money, but our kids will likely need loans unless they get merit or sport sholarships.

so even though we make almost $300k, I feel this is a pretty typical middle class lifestyle, but because housing and childcare is SOOO expensive it constrains us.

This is pretty much the income you need to not have LONG commute and have decent schools in a real house.

Granted when we retire, in theory we can sell the house and move someplace with lower COL so our retirement could be pretty comfortable but a bit of a gamble in such an illiquid asset.

Seems upper middle to me. Particularly the inside the beltway part.

We are inside the beltway only to keep commutes under an hour. I think a modest commute should be a middle class thing not a luxury -- though around here I know it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are two GS-14 scientists, and we need both our incomes to afford the mortgage and childcare, have modest house inside beltway with good schools, and vacation twice a year (once in a summer beach vacation, winter is flight to visit family for holidays)

We max our retirement and have some 529 money, but our kids will likely need loans unless they get merit or sport sholarships.

so even though we make almost $300k, I feel this is a pretty typical middle class lifestyle, but because housing and childcare is SOOO expensive it constrains us.

This is pretty much the income you need to not have LONG commute and have decent schools in a real house.

Granted when we retire, in theory we can sell the house and move someplace with lower COL so our retirement could be pretty comfortable but a bit of a gamble in such an illiquid asset.

This is similar to our situation. We recently started making about $350K HHI and have enjoyed a couple of years without daycare (thank you, DC free PK3/4!)--I'd say we felt upper middle class w/one kid in upper NW DC, with some disposable income.

However, kid is moving to private next year--tuition payments have already started, and we're feeling the strain. We are also paying back a hefty amount in student loans (grad and med school), which makes a big difference for us whereas this may be a non-issue for others. We still realize we're very fortunate, of course, and don't take it for granted that while squeezed, we can prioritize education in this way while not having terrible commutes, we have a SFH w/yard, etc.

[Anonymous]

I think the key divider from middle class to upper middle class are:

SAHM (single breadwinner)
Annual overseas vacations
Domestic flight for ski/beach vacations

While having three short commute, good schools of dual income making about the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are two GS-14 scientists, and we need both our incomes to afford the mortgage and childcare, have modest house inside beltway with good schools, and vacation twice a year (once in a summer beach vacation, winter is flight to visit family for holidays)

We max our retirement and have some 529 money, but our kids will likely need loans unless they get merit or sport sholarships.

so even though we make almost $300k, I feel this is a pretty typical middle class lifestyle, but because housing and childcare is SOOO expensive it constrains us.

This is pretty much the income you need to not have LONG commute and have decent schools in a real house.

Granted when we retire, in theory we can sell the house and move someplace with lower COL so our retirement could be pretty comfortable but a bit of a gamble in such an illiquid asset.

Seems upper middle to me. Particularly the inside the beltway part.

We are inside the beltway only to keep commutes under an hour. I think a modest commute should be a middle class thing not a luxury -- though around here I know it is.

You're right that a shorter commute "should" be a middle class thing. But obviously it is closer to a luxury. Not thinking the true middle class can afford those areas. We sure can't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I make is "normal." People who make more than I do are rich. People who make less than I do are poor.

-- Everybody

Nah, just folks who don't know where income percentiles land. http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/index.html

And relative to the planet, nearly every household in the US is in the global top 1%. So based on that, we're all rich.

No one cares about that. They are what their neighbors and friends make: the people around them.

This. I think the problem is quit calling it upper middle class then

People want to know where they fall amongst their peers

Say for example two working parents with grad degrees what is the 60-80% percentile income for people like this in DC. I would argue that is at least 250k

agree. two educated working parents in WDC area likely made $250-350k+ by their mid-30s and beyond. And even more if one if them is in a more time-consuming but lucrative profession. This would be UMC, likely have two cars, public school, childcare, a few vacations a year, a SFH, and saving for college and retirement.

Upper class is more like $600k+ and results in a very nice new home, foreign vehicles, $50k/year of private school tuitions + 10k extracurriculars PER KID, and very pricey vacations. However, most people living like this have wealth (trust funds, significant income-producing investments), not $600k of ordinary income taxed at 50%.