S/O - Question to those who think having all kids in a family go to a top school is "no big deal"

[Anonymous]

"Easier than"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a spin off from the thread about the middle class family who has three daughters who have attended/earned degrees from Duke, Wharton, and a chemical engineering degree from an unspecified school. I am truly shocked by the number of posters who seemed to think this was typical results for academically minded middle class families. Speaking as someone who is very academically minded and middle class, I do not see this type of college attendance as normal at all among children of middle class families, even those who stress education. My own children are only in middle school and so far have earned all A's. However, despite being involved in sports and other extracurriculars, I do not see them building the impressive resumes that are necessary to attend colleges of this caliber. I simply do not have the money/time to spend on doing what is needed to have my children perform at a very advanced level in their chosen activities. For those of you who think attending schools like Duke and Penn are ordinary for children of smart, middle class parents. What types of things are you doing (especially on the extracurricular activity front) to make this seem like no big deal?

Average extracurricular activities that demonstrate a sustained interest, straight As, and mid 1500s on the SATs will get it done. The kids going to Duke and Penn didn't cure cancer.

I'm curious to know what your idea of "average extracurricular activities that demonstrate sustained interest" are? Would you consider playing flute for all 4 years in the Marching Band to be good enough? Being an average player on the soccer team throughout high school?

Yes.

Then I would love to know where you live, because where I am, kids with these kind of extracurriculars, even if they excel academically, are not getting into top 20 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just the world you're in OP. In my world the kids were all professors kids and went to top schools, so it's normal. I don't know what else to tell you. The fact is that it's not that hard to get into Duke Law if you have great LSATs, great undergrad record, and something in your background indicating you actually want to be a lawyer. Those schools are filled with "lily white" kids who are very smart and very hard working, contrary to the fever dreams of people obsessed with how "URMs" and "hooked" kids are ruining their kids chances. Ultimately if you are very smart (ie top 95-99% standardized test scores), and work hard (ie good grades) you are going to get into good schools and grad schools.

Then why do I know so many middle class kids with top grades, super high SAT scores, and good extracurriculars that have been rejected by the likes of UVA? What pray tell are these professor families doing that other middle class families of similar incomes, aren't?

In a word, they're smarter. There's a difference between 90% and 99%.

But anyway, actual research shows that the vast majority of kids with elite credentials get into at least 1 elite schools. And those great kids who didn't get into UVA still went to very good colleges I'm sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a spin off from the thread about the middle class family who has three daughters who have attended/earned degrees from Duke, Wharton, and a chemical engineering degree from an unspecified school. I am truly shocked by the number of posters who seemed to think this was typical results for academically minded middle class families. Speaking as someone who is very academically minded and middle class, I do not see this type of college attendance as normal at all among children of middle class families, even those who stress education. My own children are only in middle school and so far have earned all A's. However, despite being involved in sports and other extracurriculars, I do not see them building the impressive resumes that are necessary to attend colleges of this caliber. I simply do not have the money/time to spend on doing what is needed to have my children perform at a very advanced level in their chosen activities. For those of you who think attending schools like Duke and Penn are ordinary for children of smart, middle class parents. What types of things are you doing (especially on the extracurricular activity front) to make this seem like no big deal?

Average extracurricular activities that demonstrate a sustained interest, straight As, and mid 1500s on the SATs will get it done. The kids going to Duke and Penn didn't cure cancer.

I'm curious to know what your idea of "average extracurricular activities that demonstrate sustained interest" are? Would you consider playing flute for all 4 years in the Marching Band to be good enough? Being an average player on the soccer team throughout high school?

Yes.

Then I would love to know where you live, because where I am, kids with these kind of extracurriculars, even if they excel academically, are not getting into top 20 schools.

NoVA. Public school. Not TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just the world you're in OP. In my world the kids were all professors kids and went to top schools, so it's normal. I don't know what else to tell you. The fact is that it's not that hard to get into Duke Law if you have great LSATs, great undergrad record, and something in your background indicating you actually want to be a lawyer. Those schools are filled with "lily white" kids who are very smart and very hard working, contrary to the fever dreams of people obsessed with how "URMs" and "hooked" kids are ruining their kids chances. Ultimately if you are very smart (ie top 95-99% standardized test scores), and work hard (ie good grades) you are going to get into good schools and grad schools.

Then why do I know so many middle class kids with top grades, super high SAT scores, and good extracurriculars that have been rejected by the likes of UVA? What pray tell are these professor families doing that other middle class families of similar incomes, aren't?

In a word, they're smarter. There's a difference between 90% and 99%.

But anyway, actual research shows that the vast majority of kids with elite credentials get into at least 1 elite schools. And those great kids who didn't get into UVA still went to very good colleges I'm sure.

How can colleges tell that one valedictorian is smarter than another?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just the world you're in OP. In my world the kids were all professors kids and went to top schools, so it's normal. I don't know what else to tell you. The fact is that it's not that hard to get into Duke Law if you have great LSATs, great undergrad record, and something in your background indicating you actually want to be a lawyer. Those schools are filled with "lily white" kids who are very smart and very hard working, contrary to the fever dreams of people obsessed with how "URMs" and "hooked" kids are ruining their kids chances. Ultimately if you are very smart (ie top 95-99% standardized test scores), and work hard (ie good grades) you are going to get into good schools and grad schools.

Then why do I know so many middle class kids with top grades, super high SAT scores, and good extracurriculars that have been rejected by the likes of UVA? What pray tell are these professor families doing that other middle class families of similar incomes, aren't?

In a word, they're smarter. There's a difference between 90% and 99%.

But anyway, actual research shows that the vast majority of kids with elite credentials get into at least 1 elite schools. And those great kids who didn't get into UVA still went to very good colleges I'm sure.

Please give an example of what kind of other "very good college" kids who didn't get into UVA went to? Most middle class families can't afford to send their kids to private colleges, so if their high achieving students don't get into the state flagship, they are either going to a lesser state school or a private school that offers generous merit aid and thus would be considerably lower ranking.

[Anonymous]

We have four kids who attend or did: Duke, Cornell, and UChicago (our alma mater). We didn't do anything particularly special. Just said we expected them to do well in school with their grades and always had them in a variety of activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have four kids who attend or did: Duke, Cornell, and UChicago (our alma mater). We didn't do anything particularly special. Just said we expected them to do well in school with their grades and always had them in a variety of activities.

^ I should have mentioned we pay full freight. Very little merit and no financial aid. That's an important part of it, I'm sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a spin off from the thread about the middle class family who has three daughters who have attended/earned degrees from Duke, Wharton, and a chemical engineering degree from an unspecified school. I am truly shocked by the number of posters who seemed to think this was typical results for academically minded middle class families. Speaking as someone who is very academically minded and middle class, I do not see this type of college attendance as normal at all among children of middle class families, even those who stress education. My own children are only in middle school and so far have earned all A's. However, despite being involved in sports and other extracurriculars, I do not see them building the impressive resumes that are necessary to attend colleges of this caliber. I simply do not have the money/time to spend on doing what is needed to have my children perform at a very advanced level in their chosen activities. For those of you who think attending schools like Duke and Penn are ordinary for children of smart, middle class parents. What types of things are you doing (especially on the extracurricular activity front) to make this seem like no big deal?

Average extracurricular activities that demonstrate a sustained interest, straight As, and mid 1500s on the SATs will get it done. The kids going to Duke and Penn didn't cure cancer.

I'm curious to know what your idea of "average extracurricular activities that demonstrate sustained interest" are? Would you consider playing flute for all 4 years in the Marching Band to be good enough? Being an average player on the soccer team throughout high school?

No playing soccer from age 4, making the varsity team as a freshman, and being co-captain for two years. Plus other activities. You can't be average. You have to demonstrate sustained interest (from childhood) so that by the time you're high school aged, you're a leader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just the world you're in OP. In my world the kids were all professors kids and went to top schools, so it's normal. I don't know what else to tell you. The fact is that it's not that hard to get into Duke Law if you have great LSATs, great undergrad record, and something in your background indicating you actually want to be a lawyer. Those schools are filled with "lily white" kids who are very smart and very hard working, contrary to the fever dreams of people obsessed with how "URMs" and "hooked" kids are ruining their kids chances. Ultimately if you are very smart (ie top 95-99% standardized test scores), and work hard (ie good grades) you are going to get into good schools and grad schools.

Then why do I know so many middle class kids with top grades, super high SAT scores, and good extracurriculars that have been rejected by the likes of UVA? What pray tell are these professor families doing that other middle class families of similar incomes, aren't?

In a word, they're smarter. There's a difference between 90% and 99%.

But anyway, actual research shows that the vast majority of kids with elite credentials get into at least 1 elite schools. And those great kids who didn't get into UVA still went to very good colleges I'm sure.

Please give an example of what kind of other "very good college" kids who didn't get into UVA went to? Most middle class families can't afford to send their kids to private colleges, so if their high achieving students don't get into the state flagship, they are either going to a lesser state school or a private school that offers generous merit aid and thus would be considerably lower ranking.

If they're saving from birth, which they should be, UMC families will be able to pay full freight for private by the time the kid is 18. That will give your kid an edge for the top SLACs that have gotten so expensive, they need to start considering the ability to pay in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a spin off from the thread about the middle class family who has three daughters who have attended/earned degrees from Duke, Wharton, and a chemical engineering degree from an unspecified school. I am truly shocked by the number of posters who seemed to think this was typical results for academically minded middle class families. Speaking as someone who is very academically minded and middle class, I do not see this type of college attendance as normal at all among children of middle class families, even those who stress education. My own children are only in middle school and so far have earned all A's. However, despite being involved in sports and other extracurriculars, I do not see them building the impressive resumes that are necessary to attend colleges of this caliber. I simply do not have the money/time to spend on doing what is needed to have my children perform at a very advanced level in their chosen activities. For those of you who think attending schools like Duke and Penn are ordinary for children of smart, middle class parents. What types of things are you doing (especially on the extracurricular activity front) to make this seem like no big deal?

Average extracurricular activities that demonstrate a sustained interest, straight As, and mid 1500s on the SATs will get it done. The kids going to Duke and Penn didn't cure cancer.

I'm curious to know what your idea of "average extracurricular activities that demonstrate sustained interest" are? Would you consider playing flute for all 4 years in the Marching Band to be good enough? Being an average player on the soccer team throughout high school?

No playing soccer from age 4, making the varsity team as a freshman, and being co-captain for two years. Plus other activities. You can't be average. You have to demonstrate sustained interest (from childhood) so that by the time you're high school aged, you're a leader.

Plenty of average EC kids do what you are talking about. Simply by starting early and sticking with it, you can make varsity as a freshman or sophomore yet never have the hope of playing at a school like Duke or Penn. No need to be all-conference. Couple that with straight As and 1550+ SATs....good shot at admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have four kids who attend or did: Duke, Cornell, and UChicago (our alma mater). We didn't do anything particularly special. Just said we expected them to do well in school with their grades and always had them in a variety of activities.

^ I should have mentioned we pay full freight. Very little merit and no financial aid. That's an important part of it, I'm sure.

If you paid full freight for four kids you are not middle class. I still find your results impressive, because these schools are very difficult for anyone to get in, however, presumably not only were you able to afford to pay for various extracurriculars, you could probably afford to pay for help transporting kids to their different activities in the form of an afterschool babysitter, etc. As a middle class parent of smart kids, what I find most difficult is the extracurricular aspect. I can't afford to spend too much on extra training/camps to help them stand out in their sports and activities, and I am too darned tired to spend more time driving them around than I already do. Unfortunately, I can't afford to hire the driving out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just the world you're in OP. In my world the kids were all professors kids and went to top schools, so it's normal. I don't know what else to tell you. The fact is that it's not that hard to get into Duke Law if you have great LSATs, great undergrad record, and something in your background indicating you actually want to be a lawyer. Those schools are filled with "lily white" kids who are very smart and very hard working, contrary to the fever dreams of people obsessed with how "URMs" and "hooked" kids are ruining their kids chances. Ultimately if you are very smart (ie top 95-99% standardized test scores), and work hard (ie good grades) you are going to get into good schools and grad schools.

Then why do I know so many middle class kids with top grades, super high SAT scores, and good extracurriculars that have been rejected by the likes of UVA? What pray tell are these professor families doing that other middle class families of similar incomes, aren't?

In a word, they're smarter. There's a difference between 90% and 99%.

But anyway, actual research shows that the vast majority of kids with elite credentials get into at least 1 elite schools. And those great kids who didn't get into UVA still went to very good colleges I'm sure.

Please give an example of what kind of other "very good college" kids who didn't get into UVA went to? Most middle class families can't afford to send their kids to private colleges, so if their high achieving students don't get into the state flagship, they are either going to a lesser state school or a private school that offers generous merit aid and thus would be considerably lower ranking.

I think people in DCUM land have a warped view of what UMC is. People here who make $400,000 see themselves as UMC. $200,000 in this area is UMC and with 2 or more children, it is very hard to save for college and still provide your children with the lifestyle/experiences that will make them likely to get accepted into a top college in the first place.

If they're saving from birth, which they should be, UMC families will be able to pay full freight for private by the time the kid is 18. That will give your kid an edge for the top SLACs that have gotten so expensive, they need to start considering the ability to pay in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just the world you're in OP. In my world the kids were all professors kids and went to top schools, so it's normal. I don't know what else to tell you. The fact is that it's not that hard to get into Duke Law if you have great LSATs, great undergrad record, and something in your background indicating you actually want to be a lawyer. Those schools are filled with "lily white" kids who are very smart and very hard working, contrary to the fever dreams of people obsessed with how "URMs" and "hooked" kids are ruining their kids chances. Ultimately if you are very smart (ie top 95-99% standardized test scores), and work hard (ie good grades) you are going to get into good schools and grad schools.

Then why do I know so many middle class kids with top grades, super high SAT scores, and good extracurriculars that have been rejected by the likes of UVA? What pray tell are these professor families doing that other middle class families of similar incomes, aren't?

In a word, they're smarter. There's a difference between 90% and 99%.

But anyway, actual research shows that the vast majority of kids with elite credentials get into at least 1 elite schools. And those great kids who didn't get into UVA still went to very good colleges I'm sure.

Please give an example of what kind of other "very good college" kids who didn't get into UVA went to? Most middle class families can't afford to send their kids to private colleges, so if their high achieving students don't get into the state flagship, they are either going to a lesser state school or a private school that offers generous merit aid and thus would be considerably lower ranking.

If they're saving from birth, which they should be, UMC families will be able to pay full freight for private by the time the kid is 18. That will give your kid an edge for the top SLACs that have gotten so expensive, they need to start considering the ability to pay in admissions.

I think people in DCUM land have a warped view of what UMC is. People here who make $400,000 see themselves as UMC. $200,000 in this area is UMC and with 2 or more children, it is very hard to save for college and still provide your children with the lifestyle/experiences that will make them likely to get accepted into a top college in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just the world you're in OP. In my world the kids were all professors kids and went to top schools, so it's normal. I don't know what else to tell you. The fact is that it's not that hard to get into Duke Law if you have great LSATs, great undergrad record, and something in your background indicating you actually want to be a lawyer. Those schools are filled with "lily white" kids who are very smart and very hard working, contrary to the fever dreams of people obsessed with how "URMs" and "hooked" kids are ruining their kids chances. Ultimately if you are very smart (ie top 95-99% standardized test scores), and work hard (ie good grades) you are going to get into good schools and grad schools.

Then why do I know so many middle class kids with top grades, super high SAT scores, and good extracurriculars that have been rejected by the likes of UVA? What pray tell are these professor families doing that other middle class families of similar incomes, aren't?

In a word, they're smarter. There's a difference between 90% and 99%.

But anyway, actual research shows that the vast majority of kids with elite credentials get into at least 1 elite schools. And those great kids who didn't get into UVA still went to very good colleges I'm sure.

Please give an example of what kind of other "very good college" kids who didn't get into UVA went to? Most middle class families can't afford to send their kids to private colleges, so if their high achieving students don't get into the state flagship, they are either going to a lesser state school or a private school that offers generous merit aid and thus would be considerably lower ranking.

If they're saving from birth, which they should be, UMC families will be able to pay full freight for private by the time the kid is 18. That will give your kid an edge for the top SLACs that have gotten so expensive, they need to start considering the ability to pay in admissions.

Not really.