Do HS teachers prefer certain schools in FCPS (i.e. higher SES schools)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've taught in a variety of schools. In a large public school system like FCPS, it is definitely easier to teach at a school where most students come from middle or upper middle-class backgrounds. The students come to class prepared, the parents make sure the children arrive with full stomachs, and there is far less pressure from the cluster/region administrators to teach to the SOLs. It can be rewarding to mentor students from lower-income backgrounds, many of whom are very sweet, but there are also more kids who are years behind and barely literate in their native language. Teachers burn out quickly in those environments and seek out less stressful positions.

Yeah, but how many schools like that that are there in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

The overall teacher satisfaction ratings at McLean in the last county-wide teacher survey were the highest in the county. Good mix of kids from the less affluent half of McLean south of 123, Falls Church, and Vienna.

65% of McLean teachers and staff filled out the last survey. Much less than other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do teachers look for the higher SES schools when deciding where to teach? On the one hand, you might not have to deal with kids who don't see the point of school (bad behavior, disruptive, disrespectful)... on the other hand, you might have very high demands from students or parents at the higher SES schools. My kid is in a MS that is higher SES and very supportive PTA and parents (i.e. constantly feeding and treating the teachers, parents volunteer or donate to everything). We moved from a zone where (according to several sources), their kids have been in classes where the teacher either separated out the 5 kids who "wanted to learn" from the rest of the class b/c the rest was so disruptive or the teachers actually told the kids that they were quitting (and did) b/c the kids were so awful.

I would imagine as a teacher, I'd want to be in the school where they are constantly treating me. But, I don't know if teachers really care about that or if there are a certain percentage of kids who just make teachers' lives hard no matter where you go. And how much control does the teacher have over the level of classes that s/he teaches (i.e. can they just teach the higher level classes, thereby avoiding certain groups of kids)?

How much does the student population play into the teachers' decisions to teach at a particular school? (Does that mean that on the whole the better teachers work themselves into jobs at higher SES schools -- on the whole -- I know there are some good teachers even at the lower SES schools -- what makes them stay?)

Dude. It's a JOB. People teach where they can make the most money and have the least headaches. That might very week be a low SES school. Whatever.

Are you a teacher? I doubt it. Teachers understand that teaching is a calling, not just a job. Teachers do not make a lot of money anywhere, so your suggestion that money drives it is pretty silly.

To the OP, teachers rarely have control over which classes they teach. That is the administrator's decision, but, as in any field, people with more experience and seniority often have better choices. Also, some teachers want to stay in low SES schools because they feel they can make a genuine difference there. Parents at high SES schools can be vicious and demanding, and no amount of "treats" are going to paper that over.

That's why you aren't respected as a profession. You act like a martyr and others will be happy to go along.

Seriously. Calling. Jesus, it's not the priesthood. It's a job with pros and cons just like everyone else's. And give me a fucking break on the pay. Starting teacher pay in FCPS are pushing $50K for a 10-month work year. I know plenty of entry level professionals who don't make that AND have to work year-round. Is managing a class of pushing-30 kids all day easy? Nope. But, hey, good retirement, it's nearly impossible to get fired, and summers/holidays off. Don't like it? Climb down off the cross and get another job.

One of my kid's teachers retired this year after putting in her 30 years, and pretty much told us when we had her a few years ago that she was just marking the years to retirement and wasn't that interested in parent/teacher conferences unless your kid was setting the room on fire -- and that was one of the better ones, at least she taught and could bribe the class to behave with candy. Much better than the one who ignored the kid's IEP or actively disliked my child and made no secret of it. Guess they didn't get the memo about the "calling".

+1 I'm getting sick of the pay arguments. Can't believe they are still arguing over pay with one of the highest retirement amounts in the area and a 3.5% raise. Go out and find another profession if it's so bad and maybe we can stop pretending that teachers actually teach each child they have.

[Anonymous]

Dude. It's a JOB. People teach where they can make the most money and have the least headaches. That might very week be a low SES school. Whatever.


Are you a teacher? I doubt it. Teachers understand that teaching is a calling, not just a job. Teachers do not make a lot of money anywhere, so your suggestion that money drives it is pretty silly.

To the OP, teachers rarely have control over which classes they teach. That is the administrator's decision, but, as in any field, people with more experience and seniority often have better choices. Also, some teachers want to stay in low SES schools because they feel they can make a genuine difference there. Parents at high SES schools can be vicious and demanding, and no amount of "treats" are going to paper that over.

That's why you aren't respected as a profession. You act like a martyr and others will be happy to go along.

Seriously. Calling. Jesus, it's not the priesthood. It's a job with pros and cons just like everyone else's. And give me a fucking break on the pay. Starting teacher pay in FCPS are pushing $50K for a 10-month work year. I know plenty of entry level professionals who don't make that AND have to work year-round. Is managing a class of pushing-30 kids all day easy? Nope. But, hey, good retirement, it's nearly impossible to get fired, and summers/holidays off. Don't like it? Climb down off the cross and get another job.

Such bitterness here toward teachers! Why? Be glad someone is willing to do this very important work!


One of my kid's teachers retired this year after putting in her 30 years, and pretty much told us when we had her a few years ago that she was just marking the years to retirement and wasn't that interested in parent/teacher conferences unless your kid was setting the room on fire -- and that was one of the better ones, at least she taught and could bribe the class to behave with candy. Much better than the one who ignored the kid's IEP or actively disliked my child and made no secret of it. Guess they didn't get the memo about the "calling".

+1 I'm getting sick of the pay arguments. Can't believe they are still arguing over pay with one of the highest retirement amounts in the area and a 3.5% raise. Go out and find another profession if it's so bad and maybe we can stop pretending that teachers actually teach each child they have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher my preference would be to teach in a solidly middle class school, but not upper middle class. Honestly, dealing with demanding parents can be just as much of a headache as dealing with the student behavior issues you deal with in low ses schools. And no, I don't care about the "treats" that the parents n the high SES schools dish out.

x10000

No bribe is enough to get me to teach at a high SES school.

If you can't deal with parents at a high SES school, it's unlikely you can deal effectively with students at lower SES schools. Glad you aren't at our school.

Trust me, your kid's teachers hate you.

Not the PP, but no - they don't. We're happy to have them, and they're happy to be there. We make sure to treat them very, very well and let them know that they are appreciated.

I'm surprised you didn't call them the help. You really are the worst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Dude. It's a JOB. People teach where they can make the most money and have the least headaches. That might very week be a low SES school. Whatever.


Are you a teacher? I doubt it. Teachers understand that teaching is a calling, not just a job. Teachers do not make a lot of money anywhere, so your suggestion that money drives it is pretty silly.

To the OP, teachers rarely have control over which classes they teach. That is the administrator's decision, but, as in any field, people with more experience and seniority often have better choices. Also, some teachers want to stay in low SES schools because they feel they can make a genuine difference there. Parents at high SES schools can be vicious and demanding, and no amount of "treats" are going to paper that over.

That's why you aren't respected as a profession. You act like a martyr and others will be happy to go along.

Seriously. Calling. Jesus, it's not the priesthood. It's a job with pros and cons just like everyone else's. And give me a fucking break on the pay. Starting teacher pay in FCPS are pushing $50K for a 10-month work year. I know plenty of entry level professionals who don't make that AND have to work year-round. Is managing a class of pushing-30 kids all day easy? Nope. But, hey, good retirement, it's nearly impossible to get fired, and summers/holidays off. Don't like it? Climb down off the cross and get another job.

One of my kid's teachers retired this year after putting in her 30 years, and pretty much told us when we had her a few years ago that she was just marking the years to retirement and wasn't that interested in parent/teacher conferences unless your kid was setting the room on fire -- and that was one of the better ones, at least she taught and could bribe the class to behave with candy. Much better than the one who ignored the kid's IEP or actively disliked my child and made no secret of it. Guess they didn't get the memo about the "calling".

+1 I'm getting sick of the pay arguments. Can't believe they are still arguing over pay with one of the highest retirement amounts in the area and a 3.5% raise. Go out and find another profession if it's so bad and maybe we can stop pretending that teachers actually teach each child they have.

Such bitterness here toward teachers! Why? Be glad someone is willing to do this very important work!

Did you not read the posts above? Or any of the school or special needs subfora that might answer the "why?"? There are plenty of teachers who are in the job but NOT willing to do this "very important work". I agree that it's very important - that it's so important is why I am super pissed off about how poorly it's done. I don't think it's getting done well in more instances than we'd like to admit. I wish that there was a non-seniority-based system in place to reward good teachers, incentivize people who'd be better at it to enter the profession, and get rid of the crappy teachers. We had an absolutely amazing teacher this year, and that man was worth his weight in gold. I told him that, I told the principal that, and I think very highly of him. He's been an outlier, though.

I was a huge proponent of public schools and teachers until my kids started public school - at one that's rated a 10 on Great Schools, nonetheless, and found that really good teachers are the minority. We tried to be understanding for a couple of years -- larger classes, our kid has an IEP, etc. But, in the end, we have much lower expectations than a lot of our peers and are still disappointed. Really basic stuff like not returning emails for nearly a week, not following through on very easy accommodations in an IEP (like making a checklist or signing a homework planner), and not taking five minutes to email us about a persistent problem we could have worked on at home. We have had to pull one kid and send them to private because I sent public school a kid that was performing above grade level, and they've turned them into one that can't pass SOL tests in less than two years.

So, combine our experience with the martyr complex and the expectation that we venerate teachers as though they are doing the work of Mother Teresa? Yep, annoyed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Dude. It's a JOB. People teach where they can make the most money and have the least headaches. That might very week be a low SES school. Whatever.


Are you a teacher? I doubt it. Teachers understand that teaching is a calling, not just a job. Teachers do not make a lot of money anywhere, so your suggestion that money drives it is pretty silly.

To the OP, teachers rarely have control over which classes they teach. That is the administrator's decision, but, as in any field, people with more experience and seniority often have better choices. Also, some teachers want to stay in low SES schools because they feel they can make a genuine difference there. Parents at high SES schools can be vicious and demanding, and no amount of "treats" are going to paper that over.

That's why you aren't respected as a profession. You act like a martyr and others will be happy to go along.

Seriously. Calling. Jesus, it's not the priesthood. It's a job with pros and cons just like everyone else's. And give me a fucking break on the pay. Starting teacher pay in FCPS are pushing $50K for a 10-month work year. I know plenty of entry level professionals who don't make that AND have to work year-round. Is managing a class of pushing-30 kids all day easy? Nope. But, hey, good retirement, it's nearly impossible to get fired, and summers/holidays off. Don't like it? Climb down off the cross and get another job.

One of my kid's teachers retired this year after putting in her 30 years, and pretty much told us when we had her a few years ago that she was just marking the years to retirement and wasn't that interested in parent/teacher conferences unless your kid was setting the room on fire -- and that was one of the better ones, at least she taught and could bribe the class to behave with candy. Much better than the one who ignored the kid's IEP or actively disliked my child and made no secret of it. Guess they didn't get the memo about the "calling".

+1 I'm getting sick of the pay arguments. Can't believe they are still arguing over pay with one of the highest retirement amounts in the area and a 3.5% raise. Go out and find another profession if it's so bad and maybe we can stop pretending that teachers actually teach each child they have.

Such bitterness here toward teachers! Why? Be glad someone is willing to do this very important work!

Did you not read the posts above? Or any of the school or special needs subfora that might answer the "why?"? There are plenty of teachers who are in the job but NOT willing to do this "very important work". I agree that it's very important - that it's so important is why I am super pissed off about how poorly it's done. I don't think it's getting done well in more instances than we'd like to admit. I wish that there was a non-seniority-based system in place to reward good teachers, incentivize people who'd be better at it to enter the profession, and get rid of the crappy teachers. We had an absolutely amazing teacher this year, and that man was worth his weight in gold. I told him that, I told the principal that, and I think very highly of him. He's been an outlier, though.

I was a huge proponent of public schools and teachers until my kids started public school - at one that's rated a 10 on Great Schools, nonetheless, and found that really good teachers are the minority. We tried to be understanding for a couple of years -- larger classes, our kid has an IEP, etc. But, in the end, we have much lower expectations than a lot of our peers and are still disappointed. Really basic stuff like not returning emails for nearly a week, not following through on very easy accommodations in an IEP (like making a checklist or signing a homework planner), and not taking five minutes to email us about a persistent problem we could have worked on at home. We have had to pull one kid and send them to private because I sent public school a kid that was performing above grade level, and they've turned them into one that can't pass SOL tests in less than two years.

So, combine our experience with the martyr complex and the expectation that we venerate teachers as though they are doing the work of Mother Teresa? Yep, annoyed.

Imagine dealing with over 100 of these freaks..... yeah now shutup about teachers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Dude. It's a JOB. People teach where they can make the most money and have the least headaches. That might very week be a low SES school. Whatever.


Are you a teacher? I doubt it. Teachers understand that teaching is a calling, not just a job. Teachers do not make a lot of money anywhere, so your suggestion that money drives it is pretty silly.

To the OP, teachers rarely have control over which classes they teach. That is the administrator's decision, but, as in any field, people with more experience and seniority often have better choices. Also, some teachers want to stay in low SES schools because they feel they can make a genuine difference there. Parents at high SES schools can be vicious and demanding, and no amount of "treats" are going to paper that over.

That's why you aren't respected as a profession. You act like a martyr and others will be happy to go along.

Seriously. Calling. Jesus, it's not the priesthood. It's a job with pros and cons just like everyone else's. And give me a fucking break on the pay. Starting teacher pay in FCPS are pushing $50K for a 10-month work year. I know plenty of entry level professionals who don't make that AND have to work year-round. Is managing a class of pushing-30 kids all day easy? Nope. But, hey, good retirement, it's nearly impossible to get fired, and summers/holidays off. Don't like it? Climb down off the cross and get another job.

One of my kid's teachers retired this year after putting in her 30 years, and pretty much told us when we had her a few years ago that she was just marking the years to retirement and wasn't that interested in parent/teacher conferences unless your kid was setting the room on fire -- and that was one of the better ones, at least she taught and could bribe the class to behave with candy. Much better than the one who ignored the kid's IEP or actively disliked my child and made no secret of it. Guess they didn't get the memo about the "calling".

+1 I'm getting sick of the pay arguments. Can't believe they are still arguing over pay with one of the highest retirement amounts in the area and a 3.5% raise. Go out and find another profession if it's so bad and maybe we can stop pretending that teachers actually teach each child they have.

Such bitterness here toward teachers! Why? Be glad someone is willing to do this very important work!

Did you not read the posts above? Or any of the school or special needs subfora that might answer the "why?"? There are plenty of teachers who are in the job but NOT willing to do this "very important work". I agree that it's very important - that it's so important is why I am super pissed off about how poorly it's done. I don't think it's getting done well in more instances than we'd like to admit. I wish that there was a non-seniority-based system in place to reward good teachers, incentivize people who'd be better at it to enter the profession, and get rid of the crappy teachers. We had an absolutely amazing teacher this year, and that man was worth his weight in gold. I told him that, I told the principal that, and I think very highly of him. He's been an outlier, though.

I was a huge proponent of public schools and teachers until my kids started public school - at one that's rated a 10 on Great Schools, nonetheless, and found that really good teachers are the minority. We tried to be understanding for a couple of years -- larger classes, our kid has an IEP, etc. But, in the end, we have much lower expectations than a lot of our peers and are still disappointed. Really basic stuff like not returning emails for nearly a week, not following through on very easy accommodations in an IEP (like making a checklist or signing a homework planner), and not taking five minutes to email us about a persistent problem we could have worked on at home. We have had to pull one kid and send them to private because I sent public school a kid that was performing above grade level, and they've turned them into one that can't pass SOL tests in less than two years.

So, combine our experience with the martyr complex and the expectation that we venerate teachers as though they are doing the work of Mother Teresa? Yep, annoyed.

Imagine dealing with over 100 of these freaks..... yeah now shutup about teachers

I know, it's really galling that people expect you to be marginally competent at your job and to follow the law, particularly when their kids' educations are at stake. The nerve of some people.

[Anonymous]

No sweetie. It's infuriating when people like you expect the world to revolve around your kid. It's a public school. All of the extra things that your little Larlo needs, is time taken away from everyone else. Thank you for leaving for private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No sweetie. It's infuriating when people like you expect the world to revolve around your kid. It's a public school. All of the extra things that your little Larlo needs, is time taken away from everyone else. Thank you for leaving for private.

That's hardly what I said, but I can see reading comprehension's not your strong suit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher my preference would be to teach in a solidly middle class school, but not upper middle class. Honestly, dealing with demanding parents can be just as much of a headache as dealing with the student behavior issues you deal with in low ses schools. And no, I don't care about the "treats" that the parents n the high SES schools dish out.

x10000

No bribe is enough to get me to teach at a high SES school.

If you can't deal with parents at a high SES school, it's unlikely you can deal effectively with students at lower SES schools. Glad you aren't at our school.

Trust me, your kid's teachers hate you.

Not the PP, but no - they don't. We're happy to have them, and they're happy to be there. We make sure to treat them very, very well and let them know that they are appreciated.

I'm surprised you didn't call them the help. You really are the worst.

And you really sound imbalanced. Please enlighten us: what's so awful about appreciating teachers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher my preference would be to teach in a solidly middle class school, but not upper middle class. Honestly, dealing with demanding parents can be just as much of a headache as dealing with the student behavior issues you deal with in low ses schools. And no, I don't care about the "treats" that the parents n the high SES schools dish out.

x10000

No bribe is enough to get me to teach at a high SES school.

If you can't deal with parents at a high SES school, it's unlikely you can deal effectively with students at lower SES schools. Glad you aren't at our school.

Trust me, your kid's teachers hate you.

Not the PP, but no - they don't. We're happy to have them, and they're happy to be there. We make sure to treat them very, very well and let them know that they are appreciated.

I'm surprised you didn't call them the help. You really are the worst.

And you really sound imbalanced. Please enlighten us: what's so awful about appreciating teachers?

+1. Whether PP is a teacher or just a parent, the giant chip on his/her shoulder when it comes to higher SES communities is obvious. Best to leave these people alone in the neighborhoods and schools where they don't feel so insecure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher my preference would be to teach in a solidly middle class school, but not upper middle class. Honestly, dealing with demanding parents can be just as much of a headache as dealing with the student behavior issues you deal with in low ses schools. And no, I don't care about the "treats" that the parents n the high SES schools dish out.

x10000

No bribe is enough to get me to teach at a high SES school.

If you can't deal with parents at a high SES school, it's unlikely you can deal effectively with students at lower SES schools. Glad you aren't at our school.

Trust me, your kid's teachers hate you.

Not the PP, but no - they don't. We're happy to have them, and they're happy to be there. We make sure to treat them very, very well and let them know that they are appreciated.

I'm surprised you didn't call them the help. You really are the worst.

And you really sound imbalanced. Please enlighten us: what's so awful about appreciating teachers?

+1. Whether PP is a teacher or just a parent, the giant chip on his/her shoulder when it comes to higher SES communities is obvious. Best to leave these people alone in the neighborhoods and schools where they don't feel so insecure.

There are multiple posters. Teachers would appreciate you teaching your kids there are consequences to their actions and to learn to handle their own probelms. Aside from that, the teacher doesn't want to hear from you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher my preference would be to teach in a solidly middle class school, but not upper middle class. Honestly, dealing with demanding parents can be just as much of a headache as dealing with the student behavior issues you deal with in low ses schools. And no, I don't care about the "treats" that the parents n the high SES schools dish out.

x10000

No bribe is enough to get me to teach at a high SES school.

If you can't deal with parents at a high SES school, it's unlikely you can deal effectively with students at lower SES schools. Glad you aren't at our school.

Trust me, your kid's teachers hate you.

Not the PP, but no - they don't. We're happy to have them, and they're happy to be there. We make sure to treat them very, very well and let them know that they are appreciated.

I'm surprised you didn't call them the help. You really are the worst.

And you really sound imbalanced. Please enlighten us: what's so awful about appreciating teachers?

+1. Whether PP is a teacher or just a parent, the giant chip on his/her shoulder when it comes to higher SES communities is obvious. Best to leave these people alone in the neighborhoods and schools where they don't feel so insecure.

There are multiple posters. Teachers would appreciate you teaching your kids there are consequences to their actions and to learn to handle their own probelms. Aside from that, the teacher doesn't want to hear from you.

You're a head case. Most teachers make their contact information readily available and encourage parents with concerns to contact them. That's not inconsistent with parents teaching their kids that actions (or inactions) have consequences, but neither does it suggest that parents should take a hands-off approach in every circumstance. Kudos to the teachers and parents who work together in the mutual interest of the children, and shame on any teacher who merely wants to coast along doing what they please with no questions asked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/05/21/fairfax-countys-stuart-high-struggles-on-teacher-survey/?utm_term=.7c65795860bf

Doesn't seem like a whole lot of correlation between SES and satisfaction here. McLean did well but Falls Church did even better if you factor in the leadership effectiveness score. Both Madison and Oakton were outscored by Lee, West Potomac and Centerville.