Is it impossible to find work as an attorney right now?

[Anonymous]

I graduated from a TT in 2014 and am gainfully employed. But I took a different approach as I was targeting a niche field during law school. I kept to my guns and found a highly coveted position in my field 6 months after graduation. On the other hand, I had a fellow classmate (2014) who was absolutely clueless throughout and after law school and couldn't really find a salaried job until earlier this month--he hung his own shingle and did odd jobs to support himself during the interim period.

OP, you'll be fine because at least you're being proactive and not feeling sorry for yourself.

Having said that, you are not too good for any position (legal ones that is) in your situation and you need to take anything that comes at your doorstep. Turning down the temp job was not the smartest move. At this point, and especially given the period of time you are removed from graduation, your shot of getting an entry level in big or even medium size firms is nil.

[Anonymous]

Op, I think you need to adjust what your idea of what kind of job you're going to get.

As others have said, law firm salaries attorney jobs (even small firms) are likely out of the question at this point. Fed is on a hiring freeze, but has been super tight for years. Once the freeze unfreezes, there is going to be a glut of gainfully employed attorneys looking to move to the fed (for the quality of life) who were backlogged because of the freeze. It will be years before the fed is going to hire underqualified attorney.

regardless of not having found legal employment, you also have the issue that you have been unemployed since the bar exam (presumably in July 2016). Regardless of industry (legal or not), the great recession forever changed the game vis a vis the unemployed. Once you become unemployed for more than a couple months, the new economy basically means that you're not going back in at the level you would have had you not been unemployed. That means: much lower pay, jobs with lower responsibility, jobs without benefits, contract and gig work, unpaid internships etc.

so at this point, i think it's unreasonable to expect you'll find a salaried job that requires your law degree. At this point, i think your priority should be to find anything to put on your resume that remotely ties to your law degree (unpaid clerkship, low paid policy position, volunteering, etc). Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, I think you need to adjust what your idea of what kind of job you're going to get.

As others have said, law firm salaries attorney jobs (even small firms) are likely out of the question at this point. Fed is on a hiring freeze, but has been super tight for years. Once the freeze unfreezes, there is going to be a glut of gainfully employed attorneys looking to move to the fed (for the quality of life) who were backlogged because of the freeze. It will be years before the fed is going to hire underqualified attorney.

regardless of not having found legal employment, you also have the issue that you have been unemployed since the bar exam (presumably in July 2016). Regardless of industry (legal or not), the great recession forever changed the game vis a vis the unemployed. Once you become unemployed for more than a couple months, the new economy basically means that you're not going back in at the level you would have had you not been unemployed. That means: much lower pay, jobs with lower responsibility, jobs without benefits, contract and gig work, unpaid internships etc.

so at this point, i think it's unreasonable to expect you'll find a salaried job that requires your law degree. At this point, i think your priority should be to find anything to put on your resume that remotely ties to your law degree (unpaid clerkship, low paid policy position, volunteering, etc). Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....

This is true. But as one of the PPs alluded to--all road lead to Rome. You're still young (from the sound of it), so just keep your head up and keep fighting. This should be a merely blimp in your life if you don't let up.

[Anonymous]

Is suggest you stop referring to yourself as a baby lawyer. Please.

[Anonymous]

Sorry but why can't you move? Just bc of "relatives"? Or just bc you'd need to take another bar? A significant problem with the DMV legal market (always - not just right now) is that there are a LOT of lawyers. Thus, employers can be choosy and still find really well credentialed people - there are so many Harvard, Columbia, and Penn grads around that even smaller/medium firms can seek them out when there's a hiring need. So being outside the top 30% at a top 30 school w no summer associate experience - you are already at a disadvantage.

[Anonymous]

I am a big law associate and can tell you this is a very difficult position. Your best shot is to do everything you can to find a job at a mid size or even a small firm with an excellent reputation; work your butt off; and then in 2-3 years you can lateral to someplace better. When you are 2-4 years out of law school, law firms fall over themselves to hire people. You need to try to find a way to position yourself for that. But I will be brutally honest that finding the initial job at a mid or small place isn't easy. I also don't agree with the advice that you should move unless you really have something lined up elsewhere. The reality is that in most geographic areas regional law school students can have a major influence on hiring and unless youbwent to law school in area and have the same alumni connections, it is going to be just as hard, if not even harder, to find a job. You should not pack up your car and drive to say Philadelphia because you went to a school with a better ranking than Temple and Villanova -- you will be very disappointed when you realize that most other people in Philadelphia went to Temple or Villanova and don't care about your school and its ranking.

The government is an option but the hiring freeze complicates that and being pegged as a government lawyer can also complicate things. It is MUCH harder to lateral from the government to a big law firm than it isn't to lateral from a small/mid size firm to a big law firm, unless you have some truly compelling government experience that frankly you probably won't have.

Contract work is a killer if you want to do real big law work, but it does pay the bills. It depends how much you need money soon.

As for policy jobs -- this is a huge misnomer. Why is an attorney who likely has a major aversion to stats, math, etc. more qualified to do public
Policy analysis at the very highest levels of such analysis in Washington DC than someone with a Masters or PhD who actually went to school to become a policy analyst (and is likely good with numbers)? It is total nonsense. I say this as someone who worked in a low
level job at a think tank before law school. The good jobs at a think tank -- and yes I would put ones that pay 60k in that category -- are highly competitive and nobody is going to hire an attorney who has never even practiced law for such work (unless you have something truly unique in your background)

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a big law associate and can tell you this is a very difficult position. Your best shot is to do everything you can to find a job at a mid size or even a small firm with an excellent reputation; work your butt off; and then in 2-3 years you can lateral to someplace better. When you are 2-4 years out of law school, law firms fall over themselves to hire people. You need to try to find a way to position yourself for that. But I will be brutally honest that finding the initial job at a mid or small place isn't easy. I also don't agree with the advice that you should move unless you really have something lined up elsewhere. The reality is that in most geographic areas regional law school students can have a major influence on hiring and unless youbwent to law school in area and have the same alumni connections, it is going to be just as hard, if not even harder, to find a job. You should not pack up your car and drive to say Philadelphia because you went to a school with a better ranking than Temple and Villanova -- you will be very disappointed when you realize that most other people in Philadelphia went to Temple or Villanova and don't care about your school and its ranking.

The government is an option but the hiring freeze complicates that and being pegged as a government lawyer can also complicate things. It is MUCH harder to lateral from the government to a big law firm than it isn't to lateral from a small/mid size firm to a big law firm, unless you have some truly compelling government experience that frankly you probably won't have.

Contract work is a killer if you want to do real big law work, but it does pay the bills. It depends how much you need money soon.

As for policy jobs -- this is a huge misnomer. Why is an attorney who likely has a major aversion to stats, math, etc. more qualified to do public
Policy analysis at the very highest levels of such analysis in Washington DC than someone with a Masters or PhD who actually went to school to become a policy analyst (and is likely good with numbers)? It is total nonsense. I say this as someone who worked in a low
level job at a think tank before law school. The good jobs at a think tank -- and yes I would put ones that pay 60k in that category -- are highly competitive and nobody is going to hire an attorney who has never even practiced law for such work (unless you have something truly unique in your background)

Good luck.

I'm the PP suggesting he/she should move. No - I didn't mean move randomly without a job. I meant start applying for jobs in other markets and then go where you find one. Secondary markets like Philadelphia are really hard - they are very much biased towards Philadelphia locals, as evidenced by all the Temple, Nova grads. They won't care that you went to a school better than Temple bc often the hiring partners went to Temple and think it's perfectly fine; and if somehow they want grads from a hire ranked school, a small number of Penn grads remain in Philadelphia post graduation. I was thinking BIG cities - NYC, Chicago, LA/SF where they don't just get applications from regional grads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is suggest you stop referring to yourself as a baby lawyer. Please.

PLEASE.

[Anonymous]

you have an offer to work unpaid for a judge? do that. see if you can do it part time so you have something on your resume but also time to interview, apply for jobs, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a big law associate and can tell you this is a very difficult position. Your best shot is to do everything you can to find a job at a mid size or even a small firm with an excellent reputation; work your butt off; and then in 2-3 years you can lateral to someplace better. When you are 2-4 years out of law school, law firms fall over themselves to hire people. You need to try to find a way to position yourself for that. But I will be brutally honest that finding the initial job at a mid or small place isn't easy. I also don't agree with the advice that you should move unless you really have something lined up elsewhere. The reality is that in most geographic areas regional law school students can have a major influence on hiring and unless youbwent to law school in area and have the same alumni connections, it is going to be just as hard, if not even harder, to find a job. You should not pack up your car and drive to say Philadelphia because you went to a school with a better ranking than Temple and Villanova -- you will be very disappointed when you realize that most other people in Philadelphia went to Temple or Villanova and don't care about your school and its ranking.

The government is an option but the hiring freeze complicates that and being pegged as a government lawyer can also complicate things. It is MUCH harder to lateral from the government to a big law firm than it isn't to lateral from a small/mid size firm to a big law firm, unless you have some truly compelling government experience that frankly you probably won't have.

Contract work is a killer if you want to do real big law work, but it does pay the bills. It depends how much you need money soon.

As for policy jobs -- this is a huge misnomer. Why is an attorney who likely has a major aversion to stats, math, etc. more qualified to do public
Policy analysis at the very highest levels of such analysis in Washington DC than someone with a Masters or PhD who actually went to school to become a policy analyst (and is likely good with numbers)? It is total nonsense. I say this as someone who worked in a low
level job at a think tank before law school. The good jobs at a think tank -- and yes I would put ones that pay 60k in that category -- are highly competitive and nobody is going to hire an attorney who has never even practiced law for such work (unless you have something truly unique in your background)

Good luck.

I'm the PP suggesting he/she should move. No - I didn't mean move randomly without a job. I meant start applying for jobs in other markets and then go where you find one. Secondary markets like Philadelphia are really hard - they are very much biased towards Philadelphia locals, as evidenced by all the Temple, Nova grads. They won't care that you went to a school better than Temple bc often the hiring partners went to Temple and think it's perfectly fine; and if somehow they want grads from a hire ranked school, a small number of Penn grads remain in Philadelphia post graduation. I was thinking BIG cities - NYC, Chicago, LA/SF where they don't just get applications from regional grads.

OP - Thanks for your advice, I understand that a big firm is out of the question at this point. I also agree that policy could be a challenging path without prior experience in that field. Ideally, I would lay the framework to end up at a midsize law firm.

I realize that I am limiting myself geographically but it does seem slightly crazy to me that there are no options here. I also feel limited because I sat for the VA bar and the expense of investing in another state's bar is not the most attractive option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is suggest you stop referring to yourself as a baby lawyer. Please.

PLEASE.

Sorry!

[Anonymous]

Take whatever job you can right now. Even unpaid. That's your best bet for networking and getting experience. You're not too good for any job.

[Anonymous]

OP, I graduated in 2006 from UMD (ranked in the mid-40s at the time) with law review (but median grades because I screwed around).

long story short, I started out in shitlaw at this awful insurance defense firm where the associates were treated as contractors and not employees.

I looked constantly for something that looked like a way out. I took a job with a sole practitioner who practiced management-side labor law. he had to lay me off after 4 years, and I quickly landed at a regional 200-attorney firm, left there for a national L&E firm, then left there (just before making partner) for biglaw.

while this outcome is possible, it is very unlikely. however, I'd figure out some kind of game plan - mine was to get about a year of litigation experience and a few decent writing samples and find my way into a good practice area. I thank the universe constantly that this all worked out for me; I'm very aware that I beat the odds.

avoid doc review if you can. it is very bad for the resume.

[Anonymous]

My cousin has graduated from a similarly tiered law school in DMV at a similar ranking, could not find anything for a while.
Was eventually hired as an Assistant DA in a remote county of a flyover state, where her BF family lived.
At least her 50 K salary allows to live there somewhat OK.

[Anonymous]

Virginia is a huge state, and outside of NOVA it isn't as saturated with overcrdentialed people. Try Richmond at least.