Am I crazy to be considering 6th at Hardy over Deal?

[Anonymous]

I'm rooting for Hardy, too, but I think it has farther to go than the other posters appear to believe. All of the tours visit that advanced STEM class, and the kids are really impressive. But it's a tiny percentage of kids at Hardy who are in advanced math (7th grade algebra). I think it was 5-10%. Does anyone know the numbers for Deal?

Only 30% total at Hardy are at least in grade level math, meaning algebra in either 7th or 8th. 70% at Hardy are below grade level for math, meaning that they will take algebra for the first time in high school and miss a chance to take calculus. This might not seem important to you if your oldest child is still in elementary school, but believe me, it will matter to you when your child is applying for Walls or Banneker or trying for higher-level classes at Wilson, and even more when the college process starts.

Using the excuse that this is because more than 70% of Hardy kids are OOB is insulting to those children. Surely more than a few children over the years have been ready for advanced math, or could have been given the preparation while at Hardy to be prepared by high school. To think otherwise is to believe that a child's math trajectory is set in stone by age 10, which is ridiculous. Great schools take children as they come but they don't stop there, keeping everyone on the track they were on when they arrived. They identify the ones who can speed ahead if given a chance, and they work to make it happen. They don't wait for their in-boundary demographics to change and then claim improved results as their own success.

Hardy also offers nothing for children with existing foreign language skills, especially native Spanish speakers. Totally different league from Deal in this area.

I'm hopeful that Hardy will commit to making progress in math and languages by the time my youngest is ready for middle school in a few years. I think if it can rededicate itself to these areas, it will be a solid choice for both in-boundary and OOB families. But I don't think it's a peer to Deal at this point.

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to understand how the school is under-enrolled, yet my DC's 7th grade honors English and honors math classes, as well as her science class, have over 30 students in each section.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand how the school is under-enrolled, yet my DC's 7th grade honors English and honors math classes, as well as her science class, have over 30 students in each section.

I think this goes to the heart of the growing pains at Hardy. Hardy feeders have been sending increasing numbers of students who are by and large, very prepared students who test at proficient and higher and who need honors-level courses to be challenged. Principal Pride needs to plan for the changes in the make-up of her student body. Seems to me that those two classes should become two classes of 15, but my guess is that it comes down to the number of classes those two teachers have to teach each day. I hope the administration together with LSAT will plan appropriately to meet the needs of all levels of students at Hardy. If, for instance, an additional English teacher needs to come onboard I hope her budget will allow for it. PP, are parents vocal about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand how the school is under-enrolled, yet my DC's 7th grade honors English and honors math classes, as well as her science class, have over 30 students in each section.

In looking at the budget does Hardy apply too many resources to administrative positions, teachers for specials, ELL, etc? The core subject classes (English, Math, Science and Social Studies) should be Principal Pride's priorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand how the school is under-enrolled, yet my DC's 7th grade honors English and honors math classes, as well as her science class, have over 30 students in each section.

In looking at the budget does Hardy apply too many resources to administrative positions, teachers for specials, ELL, etc? The core subject classes (English, Math, Science and Social Studies) should be Principal Pride's priorities.

It is a small school - only 374 students.

She can't not fund service providers, special educators and ELL teachers if students with those needs are in the population. Regardless, if you look at the staff roster online it doesn't seem to be a staff heavy school. But the per pupil allotment simply doesn't go as far when you have fewer than 400 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand how the school is under-enrolled, yet my DC's 7th grade honors English and honors math classes, as well as her science class, have over 30 students in each section.

In looking at the budget does Hardy apply too many resources to administrative positions, teachers for specials, ELL, etc? The core subject classes (English, Math, Science and Social Studies) should be Principal Pride's priorities.

DC tends to fund administrative positions like "esteem specialists" and diversity coordinators ahead of additional academic teaching positions. Puzzling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand how the school is under-enrolled, yet my DC's 7th grade honors English and honors math classes, as well as her science class, have over 30 students in each section.

Because at Hardy "honors" means on grade level. Look at the parcc scores.

[Anonymous]

So I wonder how would Hardy compare to a charter like Latin or Cap City? My biggest issue is school climate. I am not willing to have my very small (in size), timid child be pushed down the hall by kids screaming and out of control. Every classroom needs to be orderly. Fights should not be common. My kid is bright and will do well academically no matter where she goes. But we may need to limit ourselves to small charters just for the climate aspect. I am a single parent making about 85k so I don't think private is an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm rooting for Hardy, too, but I think it has farther to go than the other posters appear to believe. All of the tours visit that advanced STEM class, and the kids are really impressive. But it's a tiny percentage of kids at Hardy who are in advanced math (7th grade algebra). I think it was 5-10%. Does anyone know the numbers for Deal?

Only 30% total at Hardy are at least in grade level math, meaning algebra in either 7th or 8th. 70% at Hardy are below grade level for math, meaning that they will take algebra for the first time in high school and miss a chance to take calculus. This might not seem important to you if your oldest child is still in elementary school, but believe me, it will matter to you when your child is applying for Walls or Banneker or trying for higher-level classes at Wilson, and even more when the college process starts.

Using the excuse that this is because more than 70% of Hardy kids are OOB is insulting to those children. Surely more than a few children over the years have been ready for advanced math, or could have been given the preparation while at Hardy to be prepared by high school. To think otherwise is to believe that a child's math trajectory is set in stone by age 10, which is ridiculous. Great schools take children as they come but they don't stop there, keeping everyone on the track they were on when they arrived. They identify the ones who can speed ahead if given a chance, and they work to make it happen. They don't wait for their in-boundary demographics to change and then claim improved results as their own success.

Hardy also offers nothing for children with existing foreign language skills, especially native Spanish speakers. Totally different league from Deal in this area.

I'm hopeful that Hardy will commit to making progress in math and languages by the time my youngest is ready for middle school in a few years. I think if it can rededicate itself to these areas, it will be a solid choice for both in-boundary and OOB families. But I don't think it's a peer to Deal at this point.

Only in DC to somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about speak with such authority. Algebra 1 in 9th grade is grade-level on a national level. How have you done such a deep dive when you only have a what. 7-year-old?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm rooting for Hardy, too, but I think it has farther to go than the other posters appear to believe. All of the tours visit that advanced STEM class, and the kids are really impressive. But it's a tiny percentage of kids at Hardy who are in advanced math (7th grade algebra). I think it was 5-10%. Does anyone know the numbers for Deal?

Only 30% total at Hardy are at least in grade level math, meaning algebra in either 7th or 8th. 70% at Hardy are below grade level for math, meaning that they will take algebra for the first time in high school and miss a chance to take calculus. This might not seem important to you if your oldest child is still in elementary school, but believe me, it will matter to you when your child is applying for Walls or Banneker or trying for higher-level classes at Wilson, and even more when the college process starts.

Using the excuse that this is because more than 70% of Hardy kids are OOB is insulting to those children. Surely more than a few children over the years have been ready for advanced math, or could have been given the preparation while at Hardy to be prepared by high school. To think otherwise is to believe that a child's math trajectory is set in stone by age 10, which is ridiculous. Great schools take children as they come but they don't stop there, keeping everyone on the track they were on when they arrived. They identify the ones who can speed ahead if given a chance, and they work to make it happen. They don't wait for their in-boundary demographics to change and then claim improved results as their own success.

Hardy also offers nothing for children with existing foreign language skills, especially native Spanish speakers. Totally different league from Deal in this area.

I'm hopeful that Hardy will commit to making progress in math and languages by the time my youngest is ready for middle school in a few years. I think if it can rededicate itself to these areas, it will be a solid choice for both in-boundary and OOB families. But I don't think it's a peer to Deal at this point.

Only in DC to somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about speak with such authority. Algebra 1 in 9th grade is grade-level on a national level. How have you done such a deep dive when you only have a what. 7-year-old?

Hey, snarky deep dive person, algebra is a priority for middle school in DC. This fall, every middle school will offer it. I wonder if with the increased funding for AP courses if Hardy can add a teacher or two to ensure they APPLY courses aren't over crowded. The initial budgets are out. Do they reflect increases based on the mayor's announcement about additional funding for middle school academics, extra curricular and sports? And PP, read this and inform yourself:
https://dcps.dc.gov/release/mayor-bowser-highlights-investments-middle-and-high-schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm rooting for Hardy, too, but I think it has farther to go than the other posters appear to believe. All of the tours visit that advanced STEM class, and the kids are really impressive. But it's a tiny percentage of kids at Hardy who are in advanced math (7th grade algebra). I think it was 5-10%. Does anyone know the numbers for Deal?

Only 30% total at Hardy are at least in grade level math, meaning algebra in either 7th or 8th. 70% at Hardy are below grade level for math, meaning that they will take algebra for the first time in high school and miss a chance to take calculus. This might not seem important to you if your oldest child is still in elementary school, but believe me, it will matter to you when your child is applying for Walls or Banneker or trying for higher-level classes at Wilson, and even more when the college process starts.

Using the excuse that this is because more than 70% of Hardy kids are OOB is insulting to those children. Surely more than a few children over the years have been ready for advanced math, or could have been given the preparation while at Hardy to be prepared by high school. To think otherwise is to believe that a child's math trajectory is set in stone by age 10, which is ridiculous. Great schools take children as they come but they don't stop there, keeping everyone on the track they were on when they arrived. They identify the ones who can speed ahead if given a chance, and they work to make it happen. They don't wait for their in-boundary demographics to change and then claim improved results as their own success.

Hardy also offers nothing for children with existing foreign language skills, especially native Spanish speakers. Totally different league from Deal in this area.

I'm hopeful that Hardy will commit to making progress in math and languages by the time my youngest is ready for middle school in a few years. I think if it can rededicate itself to these areas, it will be a solid choice for both in-boundary and OOB families. But I don't think it's a peer to Deal at this point.

Thank you for this thoughtful post, PP. You make great points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm rooting for Hardy, too, but I think it has farther to go than the other posters appear to believe. All of the tours visit that advanced STEM class, and the kids are really impressive. But it's a tiny percentage of kids at Hardy who are in advanced math (7th grade algebra). I think it was 5-10%. Does anyone know the numbers for Deal?

Only 30% total at Hardy are at least in grade level math, meaning algebra in either 7th or 8th. 70% at Hardy are below grade level for math, meaning that they will take algebra for the first time in high school and miss a chance to take calculus. This might not seem important to you if your oldest child is still in elementary school, but believe me, it will matter to you when your child is applying for Walls or Banneker or trying for higher-level classes at Wilson, and even more when the college process starts.

Using the excuse that this is because more than 70% of Hardy kids are OOB is insulting to those children. Surely more than a few children over the years have been ready for advanced math, or could have been given the preparation while at Hardy to be prepared by high school. To think otherwise is to believe that a child's math trajectory is set in stone by age 10, which is ridiculous. Great schools take children as they come but they don't stop there, keeping everyone on the track they were on when they arrived. They identify the ones who can speed ahead if given a chance, and they work to make it happen. They don't wait for their in-boundary demographics to change and then claim improved results as their own success.

Hardy also offers nothing for children with existing foreign language skills, especially native Spanish speakers. Totally different league from Deal in this area.

I'm hopeful that Hardy will commit to making progress in math and languages by the time my youngest is ready for middle school in a few years. I think if it can rededicate itself to these areas, it will be a solid choice for both in-boundary and OOB families. But I don't think it's a peer to Deal at this point.

Only in DC to somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about speak with such authority. Algebra 1 in 9th grade is grade-level on a national level. How have you done such a deep dive when you only have a what. 7-year-old?

This. Furthermore, as someone with a PhD in a close relative of math, the current thinking, I'm told, is to teach math slowly so that middle and high school students get an intuitive feel for the big concepts. Taking a derivative and setting it equal to zero is well and good, but understanding why this is how you solve an optimization problem is the real point. Research has now found that rushing students in math produces proficiency in the former but deficiency in the latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm rooting for Hardy, too, but I think it has farther to go than the other posters appear to believe. All of the tours visit that advanced STEM class, and the kids are really impressive. But it's a tiny percentage of kids at Hardy who are in advanced math (7th grade algebra). I think it was 5-10%. Does anyone know the numbers for Deal?

Only 30% total at Hardy are at least in grade level math, meaning algebra in either 7th or 8th. 70% at Hardy are below grade level for math, meaning that they will take algebra for the first time in high school and miss a chance to take calculus. This might not seem important to you if your oldest child is still in elementary school, but believe me, it will matter to you when your child is applying for Walls or Banneker or trying for higher-level classes at Wilson, and even more when the college process starts.

Using the excuse that this is because more than 70% of Hardy kids are OOB is insulting to those children. Surely more than a few children over the years have been ready for advanced math, or could have been given the preparation while at Hardy to be prepared by high school. To think otherwise is to believe that a child's math trajectory is set in stone by age 10, which is ridiculous. Great schools take children as they come but they don't stop there, keeping everyone on the track they were on when they arrived. They identify the ones who can speed ahead if given a chance, and they work to make it happen. They don't wait for their in-boundary demographics to change and then claim improved results as their own success.

Hardy also offers nothing for children with existing foreign language skills, especially native Spanish speakers. Totally different league from Deal in this area.

I'm hopeful that Hardy will commit to making progress in math and languages by the time my youngest is ready for middle school in a few years. I think if it can rededicate itself to these areas, it will be a solid choice for both in-boundary and OOB families. But I don't think it's a peer to Deal at this point.

Only in DC to somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about speak with such authority. Algebra 1 in 9th grade is grade-level on a national level. How have you done such a deep dive when you only have a what. 7-year-old?

This. Furthermore, as someone with a PhD in a close relative of math, the current thinking, I'm told, is to teach math slowly so that middle and high school students get an intuitive feel for the big concepts. Taking a derivative and setting it equal to zero is well and good, but understanding why this is how you solve an optimization problem is the real point. Research has now found that rushing students in math produces proficiency in the former but deficiency in the latter.

Again, starting next school year every DC middle school will offer algebra. Might some (or maybe most) students not be ready for algebra in middle school? Perhaps, but that doesn't mean algebra shouldn't be made available to every single student who IS ready. https://mayor.dc.gov/release/mayor-bowser-highlights-investments-middle-and-high-schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm rooting for Hardy, too, but I think it has farther to go than the other posters appear to believe. All of the tours visit that advanced STEM class, and the kids are really impressive. But it's a tiny percentage of kids at Hardy who are in advanced math (7th grade algebra). I think it was 5-10%. Does anyone know the numbers for Deal?

Only 30% total at Hardy are at least in grade level math, meaning algebra in either 7th or 8th. 70% at Hardy are below grade level for math, meaning that they will take algebra for the first time in high school and miss a chance to take calculus. This might not seem important to you if your oldest child is still in elementary school, but believe me, it will matter to you when your child is applying for Walls or Banneker or trying for higher-level classes at Wilson, and even more when the college process starts.

Using the excuse that this is because more than 70% of Hardy kids are OOB is insulting to those children. Surely more than a few children over the years have been ready for advanced math, or could have been given the preparation while at Hardy to be prepared by high school. To think otherwise is to believe that a child's math trajectory is set in stone by age 10, which is ridiculous. Great schools take children as they come but they don't stop there, keeping everyone on the track they were on when they arrived. They identify the ones who can speed ahead if given a chance, and they work to make it happen. They don't wait for their in-boundary demographics to change and then claim improved results as their own success.

Hardy also offers nothing for children with existing foreign language skills, especially native Spanish speakers. Totally different league from Deal in this area.

I'm hopeful that Hardy will commit to making progress in math and languages by the time my youngest is ready for middle school in a few years. I think if it can rededicate itself to these areas, it will be a solid choice for both in-boundary and OOB families. But I don't think it's a peer to Deal at this point.

Only in DC to somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about speak with such authority. Algebra 1 in 9th grade is grade-level on a national level. How have you done such a deep dive when you only have a what. 7-year-old?

This. Furthermore, as someone with a PhD in a close relative of math, the current thinking, I'm told, is to teach math slowly so that middle and high school students get an intuitive feel for the big concepts. Taking a derivative and setting it equal to zero is well and good, but understanding why this is how you solve an optimization problem is the real point. Research has now found that rushing students in math produces proficiency in the former but deficiency in the latter.

Again, starting next school year every DC middle school will offer algebra. Might some (or maybe most) students not be ready for algebra in middle school? Perhaps, but that doesn't mean algebra shouldn't be made available to every single student who IS ready. https://mayor.dc.gov/release/mayor-bowser-highlights-investments-middle-and-high-schools

Within DCPS the STEM push and Algebra task force were led by a relative newcomer, who went to DCPS from BASIS DC. I'm not surprised that more opportunities are being created.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm rooting for Hardy, too, but I think it has farther to go than the other posters appear to believe. All of the tours visit that advanced STEM class, and the kids are really impressive. But it's a tiny percentage of kids at Hardy who are in advanced math (7th grade algebra). I think it was 5-10%. Does anyone know the numbers for Deal?

Only 30% total at Hardy are at least in grade level math, meaning algebra in either 7th or 8th. 70% at Hardy are below grade level for math, meaning that they will take algebra for the first time in high school and miss a chance to take calculus. This might not seem important to you if your oldest child is still in elementary school, but believe me, it will matter to you when your child is applying for Walls or Banneker or trying for higher-level classes at Wilson, and even more when the college process starts.

Using the excuse that this is because more than 70% of Hardy kids are OOB is insulting to those children. Surely more than a few children over the years have been ready for advanced math, or could have been given the preparation while at Hardy to be prepared by high school. To think otherwise is to believe that a child's math trajectory is set in stone by age 10, which is ridiculous. Great schools take children as they come but they don't stop there, keeping everyone on the track they were on when they arrived. They identify the ones who can speed ahead if given a chance, and they work to make it happen. They don't wait for their in-boundary demographics to change and then claim improved results as their own success.

Hardy also offers nothing for children with existing foreign language skills, especially native Spanish speakers. Totally different league from Deal in this area.

I'm hopeful that Hardy will commit to making progress in math and languages by the time my youngest is ready for middle school in a few years. I think if it can rededicate itself to these areas, it will be a solid choice for both in-boundary and OOB families. But I don't think it's a peer to Deal at this point.

Only in DC to somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about speak with such authority. Algebra 1 in 9th grade is grade-level on a national level. How have you done such a deep dive when you only have a what. 7-year-old?

Actually, my oldest is in a DCPS application high school. Not sure I care what's considered grade-level math in other states outside of metro DC. My younger kids will be trying for application high schools HERE, competing against kids who HAVE had algebra, and in many cases geometry, in MS. And for college, they're competing against the top kids from Wilson/Walls/Banneker/Latin/Basis + NW private schools, the vast majority of whom will have completed calculus in either 11th or 12th. Maybe you live in a rural area where standard math tracks may be different AND your kid might have a geographic leg up in college applications. Or maybe your child is a math genius who will teach herself algebra so that she can stay on track with these other kids. But like most DC parents, I'm counting on my children's middle school to handle it so that my kids have good choices for both high school and college. I think Hardy should be striving to provide ALL of its students with these opportunities, and I don't see the results yet, but hey, maybe you somehow have completely different info and a more optimistic assessment. I'd like to hear it.