What is best-case for poor public kids that are several grade levels behind by 9th?

[Anonymous]

Yes and how do you institute birth control if girls want those babies?
you can't fix stupid

[Anonymous]

The board comments are written at a 4th grade reading level. If you can follow along the comments, you can obtain a simple position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"Or" would be better than "yes".

We really need to taker a closer look at what Germany's doing with their education system. We have pretty much outsourced much of our manufacturing and turned into a service society which consists of much lower paying jobs. In contrast, Germany retained a robust manufacturing and is very developed.

We would also have to look at the labor system in Germany (including the fact that unions are significant shareholders in public companies). That's a non-starter in a country that thinks unions are the cause of job losses.

You want to use Germany as the example? Fine. Do you know that in Germany kids take an exam at ten years old (not tenth grade) that determines their future? Is that really what you want? DS is a successful college grad. Plenty smart. Would have bombed out on such a test because the only thing he cared about at that age was sports and video games. I know plenty of kids who qualified for GT who have awful jobs. Yet, they would have been on the fast track.

I Germany, you have three tracks: top (university), middle (commercial), labor (can be skilled). This is decided at ten.

[Anonymous]

If they show up on time and listen to direction there are tons of jobs available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"Or" would be better than "yes".

We really need to taker a closer look at what Germany's doing with their education system. We have pretty much outsourced much of our manufacturing and turned into a service society which consists of much lower paying jobs. In contrast, Germany retained a robust manufacturing and is very developed.

We would also have to look at the labor system in Germany (including the fact that unions are significant shareholders in public companies). That's a non-starter in a country that thinks unions are the cause of job losses.

You want to use Germany as the example? Fine. Do you know that in Germany kids take an exam at ten years old (not tenth grade) that determines their future? Is that really what you want? DS is a successful college grad. Plenty smart. Would have bombed out on such a test because the only thing he cared about at that age was sports and video games. I know plenty of kids who qualified for GT who have awful jobs. Yet, they would have been on the fast track.

I Germany, you have three tracks: top (university), middle (commercial), labor (can be skilled). This is decided at ten.

+1 I agree. I am German and went through the system. Kids from affluent homes are stressed out to their eyeballs age 10. Others rely greatly on luck and maturity. You can change track but it is a very exhausting process. It's a cast system. Anyhow, I am glad my children are not subjected to that nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"Or" would be better than "yes".

We really need to taker a closer look at what Germany's doing with their education system. We have pretty much outsourced much of our manufacturing and turned into a service society which consists of much lower paying jobs. In contrast, Germany retained a robust manufacturing and is very developed.

We would also have to look at the labor system in Germany (including the fact that unions are significant shareholders in public companies). That's a non-starter in a country that thinks unions are the cause of job losses.

You want to use Germany as the example? Fine. Do you know that in Germany kids take an exam at ten years old (not tenth grade) that determines their future? Is that really what you want? DS is a successful college grad. Plenty smart. Would have bombed out on such a test because the only thing he cared about at that age was sports and video games. I know plenty of kids who qualified for GT who have awful jobs. Yet, they would have been on the fast track.

I Germany, you have three tracks: top (university), middle (commercial), labor (can be skilled). This is decided at ten.

That is absolutely frightening that kids are being shape sorted so young. What happens when they decide at 12 or 13 to buckle down and study? Too late for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously people. You want to fix this problem?
Birth control.
You can't imagine what kind of circumstances some of these kids are living in. They never sleep in the same place, no one is really in charge of them. They've never had a book read to them. They are being raised by other children, who were raised by other children.
The few exceptional kids make it out. The rest are punished for being average.
Yes, I can see why someone would suggest boarding school, but birth control is much simpler.

I completely agree with this. Registered republican.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of these students, esp. inner city and poor rural are 3-5 grade levels behind by 9th. How do students like this succeed or are they already lost causes?

Way too much focus on poor kids. MOST public school kids in general are three grade levels off par by high school. Middle class families are clueless about this.

If this is the case (I don't necessarily doubt your claim because I have no evidence either way but I would love to see some research on this), then wouldn't that simply move par?

I'm not sure the above statement can make logical sense, depending on how "grade level" is defined. If it's "the level at which students in a given grade are expected to be capable of working to X% proficiency", wouldn't that standard itself be based on how most kids are performing at a given grade?

-NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"Or" would be better than "yes".

We really need to taker a closer look at what Germany's doing with their education system. We have pretty much outsourced much of our manufacturing and turned into a service society which consists of much lower paying jobs. In contrast, Germany retained a robust manufacturing and is very developed.

We would also have to look at the labor system in Germany (including the fact that unions are significant shareholders in public companies). That's a non-starter in a country that thinks unions are the cause of job losses.

You want to use Germany as the example? Fine. Do you know that in Germany kids take an exam at ten years old (not tenth grade) that determines their future? Is that really what you want? DS is a successful college grad. Plenty smart. Would have bombed out on such a test because the only thing he cared about at that age was sports and video games. I know plenty of kids who qualified for GT who have awful jobs. Yet, they would have been on the fast track.

I Germany, you have three tracks: top (university), middle (commercial), labor (can be skilled). This is decided at ten.

That is absolutely frightening that kids are being shape sorted so young. What happens when they decide at 12 or 13 to buckle down and study? Too late for them?

So make it slightly more flexible than Germany's system, then, and allow for education opportunities such as community college or classes hosted through local libraries to admit adults who can prove they've gotten serious about an educational goal after the traditional age.

As long as the test isn't a surprise and kids and families know to expect the high stakes, it doesn't seem frightening or unfair to me. They can then set their priorities accordingly. A student who knows -- or whose parents impress upon him -- that school performance is relevant for him at age 10 (not years later in high school) because that determines whether he can have as much choice as possible of future cool jobs will suddenly "care" about more than just entertainment, or the parents can tie what he does care about to adequate studying as many parents do already in our current system.

If 10 is too young, make it age 11/12 at the approximate start of middle school. By that age kids can certainly be expected to buckle down and take their education seriously if the opportunities they are being given are granted to them through the hard work of others (in the form of taxpayer-funded public education).

Using the German system as a model doesn't have to mean adopting it exactly as is; in fact I agree that a few modifications would be best to tailor the excellent basic concept to U.S. society and values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"Or" would be better than "yes".

We really need to taker a closer look at what Germany's doing with their education system. We have pretty much outsourced much of our manufacturing and turned into a service society which consists of much lower paying jobs. In contrast, Germany retained a robust manufacturing and is very developed.

We would also have to look at the labor system in Germany (including the fact that unions are significant shareholders in public companies). That's a non-starter in a country that thinks unions are the cause of job losses.

You want to use Germany as the example? Fine. Do you know that in Germany kids take an exam at ten years old (not tenth grade) that determines their future? Is that really what you want? DS is a successful college grad. Plenty smart. Would have bombed out on such a test because the only thing he cared about at that age was sports and video games. I know plenty of kids who qualified for GT who have awful jobs. Yet, they would have been on the fast track.

I Germany, you have three tracks: top (university), middle (commercial), labor (can be skilled). This is decided at ten.

+1 I agree. I am German and went through the system. Kids from affluent homes are stressed out to their eyeballs age 10. Others rely greatly on luck and maturity. You can change track but it is a very exhausting process. It's a cast system. Anyhow, I am glad my children are not subjected to that nonsense.

Why is it nonsensical or inappropriate to expect that people will work hard for opportunities and get what they work to earn? That seems in line with our country's values as they were taught to me, but perhaps I am missing something or another valuable perspective since someone who has experience with that system is against it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Boarding school for poor kids sounds like a really inexpensive option. I'm sure the taxpayers can't wait to do that.

This is being tried already at least on a small scale and seems to be a very interesting concept. https://www.seedfoundation.com/about/ I'm pretty interested to see what sort of results the project has for its students in the long term. The school in DC (https://www.seedschooldc.org/about-us/) has existed for 18 years now, so there may be sufficient data from graduates to begin drawing conclusions on the efficacy of the program, and it has spread recently which may indicate that it's considered promising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"Or" would be better than "yes".

We really need to taker a closer look at what Germany's doing with their education system. We have pretty much outsourced much of our manufacturing and turned into a service society which consists of much lower paying jobs. In contrast, Germany retained a robust manufacturing and is very developed.

We would also have to look at the labor system in Germany (including the fact that unions are significant shareholders in public companies). That's a non-starter in a country that thinks unions are the cause of job losses.

You want to use Germany as the example? Fine. Do you know that in Germany kids take an exam at ten years old (not tenth grade) that determines their future? Is that really what you want? DS is a successful college grad. Plenty smart. Would have bombed out on such a test because the only thing he cared about at that age was sports and video games. I know plenty of kids who qualified for GT who have awful jobs. Yet, they would have been on the fast track.

I Germany, you have three tracks: top (university), middle (commercial), labor (can be skilled). This is decided at ten.

That is absolutely frightening that kids are being shape sorted so young. What happens when they decide at 12 or 13 to buckle down and study? Too late for them?

I believe the UK has the same or a similar system.
On the other hand, past 10 years smart and motivated kids are not subjected to behavior problem of kids who don't care.