Having an underachieving student start at community college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would look into a gap year program that involved something physical away from the Internet.

Why? Wouldn't they get rusty being away from school for a year?

How about the kid gets a job? Anyone ever thought of that?

[Anonymous]

A 3.3 student with test scores in the 97th percentile is NOT underachieving by ANY means. He would have no problem getting into schools ranked ~75 or below on USNWR (50ish or below for liberal arts colleges) and his stats would earn him merit aid at many Midwestern LACs, like Augustana, Knox, Earlham, etc. bringing the cost to not much more than state schools.

Unless the family truly cannot afford to send their child to a four year college, I ALWAYS advise my clients to go the route of a residential university. The support services are better and the atmosphere is more conducive to academic success (social connections, opportunities to get involved in clubs/extracurriculars, more motivated students, etc.).

I spent two years at a community college (MC) and it was fine, but I wouldn't recommend it if there are other options. I ended up transferring to UMD-CP and successfully graduating from there, but I was one of the few. If you look at the percent of CC students who ultimately transfer and graduate from a four year college, it is astoundingly low. Also, I didn't like the commuter vibe - people went to classes, then went home or to work. There just wasn't much of a student life. I think that what goes on outside of the classroom in college is just as important, if not more important, than what goes on inside.

[Anonymous]

In districts where 10% of students get 4.0s, and about 50% of students have GPAs higher than 3.3, a 97% percentile student is underachieving, statistically.

The question is why? If the student has a difficult home situation or if the student has other, valid priorities than school then it may not be a problem.

For example, I know someone who was very smart but painfully shy in middle school. Somehow as he started his freshman year, he found a girlfriend who was very outgoing but didn't get the greatest grades.

No one who knew either could understand how they found each other. Over HS they spent just about every waking minute together. When they graduated both were very different people.

She was salutatorian, and while few who knew him in MS could believe it, he was senior class president. He graduated with the proverbial 3.3 and 97+% test scores.

If you asked her, she would tell you that he tutored her through HS. If you asked him, he would say that she basically helped him become a human being and a leader.

They didn't end up at the same college but he got straight As and is now a chaired professor. (Yes, they are still married) He used HS to build up his weaknesses so that in college and beyond, his strengths could shine.

On the other hand, if the student isn't really making any progress in any area, they are underachieving. An important thing to remember is that underachieving isn't inherently bad.

Many people look back at their lives and can see cycles of years with more effort and years with less where they figured out what they wanted to work hard at in their next cycle of hard work.

[Anonymous]

Some of you community college bashers are not very intelligent. If a child can spend the first 2 years at community college taking prerequisites, then transfer to UVA, why not do it? The diploma will still read "UVA" and you will have saved many thousands of dollars. Who's the dummy?

[Anonymous]

It's smarter to save money on undergrad. Nowadays, a graduate degree is required in many fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My very bright son who has ADHD and some other issues will definitely be going to community college for at least the first year. Here's why.

1. I can't afford to waste money.

2. He has been successful through school because each year we work together to develop strategies to address his weaknesses and the weaknesses change each year because the expectations change. This is part of his learning process, not a punishment by any means.

3. I would rather have a bored child (which I don't expect I will have because he will be working too) than a child who fails because I did not pay enough attention to helping him develop the skills he needs to be successful in a new environment that has very little structure and a lot of responsibilities.

4. My son has the impulsivity issues that come with ADHD. I have found that the best way to keep him out of trouble is to make sure he is prepared for the situations he is in. When he goes to college, he will be 18 and any trouble he gets in to will be handled as though he were an adult - which is perfectly appropriate. Thing is, I'm not going to risk his future to avoid some boredom.

I am all about teaching my son to be responsible and letting him fail so that he can figure out a better plan. But, at least for my son, I intend to teach him how to handle the responsibility and freedom that young adulthood brings.

Why can't you do all of that with a local 4 year college like UMUC or George Mason?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of you community college bashers are not very intelligent. If a child can spend the first 2 years at community college taking prerequisites, then transfer to UVA, why not do it? The diploma will still read "UVA" and you will have saved many thousands of dollars. Who's the dummy?

+1

Also, making the assumption the student achieved the minimum GPA for the guaranteed admissions program, the student is guaranteed a transfer spot into a top state school. This is not necessarily the case by attending a four-year "lesser" state school with the intent to transfer to a top state school.

[Anonymous]

There isn't anyone who couldn't be viewed as under achieving. Why pick apart this person's life? He's earned what's needed to be admitted to a 4 yr school. It's his life now. Don't do anything to impede him. He goes forward with a life uniquely his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A 3.3 student with test scores in the 97th percentile is NOT underachieving by ANY means. He would have no problem getting into schools ranked ~75 or below on USNWR (50ish or below for liberal arts colleges) and his stats would earn him merit aid at many Midwestern LACs, like Augustana, Knox, Earlham, etc. bringing the cost to not much more than state schools.

Unless the family truly cannot afford to send their child to a four year college, I ALWAYS advise my clients to go the route of a residential university. The support services are better and the atmosphere is more conducive to academic success (social connections, opportunities to get involved in clubs/extracurriculars, more motivated students, etc.).

I spent two years at a community college (MC) and it was fine, but I wouldn't recommend it if there are other options. I ended up transferring to UMD-CP and successfully graduating from there, but I was one of the few. If you look at the percent of CC students who ultimately transfer and graduate from a four year college, it is astoundingly low. Also, I didn't like the commuter vibe - people went to classes, then went home or to work. There just wasn't much of a student life. I think that what goes on outside of the classroom in college is just as important, if not more important, than what goes on inside.

Most CCs have extracurricular programs, like theater, various clubs, student government, etc. It's not quite the same as living on campus, and the majority of the students tend to just go to class and leave at the end of the day (most CC students have day jobs and/or children) but there's usually stuff to do if you're interested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is George Mason an option?

Is he a senior now? If yes, he's missed the Mason deadline. It was 1/20.

[Anonymous]

Teaching is pretty good at most community colleges, as there is no incentive for research. The exception is English composition classes, which are now graded mostly by computer. Stay away from these, as students are often discouraged by the extremely rigid requirements of the computerized grading system (spacing, Harbrace Handbook footnote references). I've seen excellent writing graded down because students used split infinitives, didn't have three sentences per paragraph or two spaces after each period.

[Anonymous]

This is one of those things where you simply need to sit down with your student and the guidance counselor and go over your options. You can talk to college admissions offices and ask questions - weigh the pros and cons of a 4 year vs a 2 year vs taking a gap year to work/travel/do more college prep work.

It is good to hear the advice from the people who have experience in these matters and who can view your kid and their transcript with an objective eye.

[Anonymous]

What are your thoughts on having a kid who is intelligent but has definite executive functioning issues or is otherwise underachieving attend community college for a year before transferring to a four year school? The student I have in mind has ADD and scored in the top 97th percentile on the PSAT (no discrepancies by section) with extended time but is a B+ student in a moderately difficult schedule. These grades are also currently slipping and to be honest aren't super impressive for the school they are coming from (current GPA is probably ~top quarter of the class). Said student is also minimally involved in extracurricular activities and spends a lot of time on the internet. I was also told that the student's guidance counselor doesn't think they'd get into the majority of colleges they originally wanted to attend (think top 30 or so USNWR level). I think the student's difficulties lie with either not studying enough or knowing their learning style, along with having poor time management skills.

Part of me doesn't want to "sentence" this student to community college when I feel like they should be doing better and still have half of junior year (along with senior year) to mature, but even the student's mother has said community college might be a best first step. The family in question could afford in state tuition (and wouldn't mind paying given the student did well) but isn't wealthy enough that name brand private colleges would be a definite option. I also feel a bit bad suggesting community college and having the mother potentially take my word as gospel because this student isn't doing objectively poorly overall, but can have very inconsistent results and doesn't seem like they would be mature enough to handle living away at a four year school. Thoughts?

Note: My hang ups about suggesting community college are more along the lines of implying that the student isn't high achieving enough to warrant immediately sending them to a four year school rather than anything having to do with community college stereotypes.

My thoughts are that you are a very indiscreet individual who should not be posting here about someone who obviously isn't your kid. Why are you asking DCUM if you are supposed to be some kind of expert? (Why else is the mother taking your word as gospel?) You should be honest with this parent that you know nothing, and that they should do their own research, or hire a professional who can help them decide what the best college options are for this child.

[Anonymous]

My middle school dd has ADD and I don't know what the future holds for college. Heck, we are just trying to figure out what to do for high school. At least with HS, we are up front that the motivation has to come from her if she wants to go to private high school. Within that we are encouraging her to find the best fit. For her, it is about motivation and confidence. If she has that, she will figure out what needs to be done and rise to the challenge. I can't say for sure that x school will be better, because at the end of the day she has to want it and be willing to work for it.

So advice for the person in question, the son shouldn't rule out CC, don't look at prestige, look at where will he get the support he needs to ultimately be successful. Also look at other schools that have great supports for kids with LDs. Don't necessarily rule out other colleges either. At the end of the day the son will have to seek out the supports and want to improve his study habits whether he goes to CC, a college that changes lives, or a huge state university etc.. The question is which environment does HE feel the motivation to do so. You can't necessarily assume it will be CC nor can you assume it will be the other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of you community college bashers are not very intelligent. If a child can spend the first 2 years at community college taking prerequisites, then transfer to UVA, why not do it? The diploma will still read "UVA" and you will have saved many thousands of dollars. Who's the dummy?

Totally agree. I know people where the degree says University of Michigan, Ann Arbor but they saved thousands going to a CC. Now back to the topic. OP, DD is a huge underachiever. A dear child who for whatever reason just is not a good traditional student. As articulate or more than her friends, but will not put in the effort and terrified at math. She is in a CC. I have been to the CC a few times and there are students in those lounges and libraries who are studying their butts off. Or people who were in the military and now back in school. Even U of M has slackers. Even Ivy Leagues have slackers. There are kids in CC for many reasons. Nothing wrong with it.