Changes to gifted center admissions

[Anonymous]

I thought there was a recent court case that changed this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem isn't teacher doing the selection rather it's the fact teachers will be forced to reach certain mix by school admin.

I wonder how the county might accomplish this legally? My understanding is setting quotas is against the law.

No one is mentioning quotas except PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem isn't teacher doing the selection rather it's the fact teachers will be forced to reach certain mix by school admin.

I wonder how the county might accomplish this legally? My understanding is setting quotas is against the law.

balance =/= quota

[Anonymous]

MCPS will never use the word "quota" but that's what this is about - "soft" quota.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather an objective test was used to measure one's qualifications consistently than teachers opinions since their views vary and are often subjective.

consistent criteria > subjective criteria applied inconsistently

+1 how can anyone argue with this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS will never use the word "quota" but that's what this is about - "soft" quota.

Exactly. The truth is that it IS a quota and requires teachers to make their selection using criteria other than just who they see are most deserving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS will never use the word "quota" but that's what this is about - "soft" quota.

Exactly. The truth is that it IS a quota and requires teachers to make their selection using criteria other than just who they see are most deserving.

I don't think teachers are deciding who gets into HGC. Aren't they just recommending who gets tested? You still have to score well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS will never use the word "quota" but that's what this is about - "soft" quota.

Exactly. The truth is that it IS a quota and requires teachers to make their selection using criteria other than just who they see are most deserving.

I don't think teachers are deciding who gets into HGC. Aren't they just recommending who gets tested? You still have to score well?

Not "well"... Just "well enough."

[Anonymous]

It doesn't seem like any of the PPs really know what is going on. Clarity would be nice.

I have a highly gifted second grader who has very mixed experiences with teachers. His K teacher and 2 teacher really liked him, and "got" his giftedness. His 1st grade teacher thought he unmotivated -- I doubt she'd recommend him for the program. Unfortunately, there can be kind of a negative feedback loop for some gifted kids with teachers not experienced with giftedness -- the kid is bored so opts out of the work; the teacher is irritated; the student is less motivated to do any classwork; the teacher is more irritated; etc. etc. I was ready to give up on public school for my child, and then this year he has a teacher with a master's in gifted ed and it's like the clouds have parted and the sun shines through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem like any of the PPs really know what is going on. Clarity would be nice.

I have a highly gifted second grader who has very mixed experiences with teachers. His K teacher and 2 teacher really liked him, and "got" his giftedness. His 1st grade teacher thought he unmotivated -- I doubt she'd recommend him for the program. Unfortunately, there can be kind of a negative feedback loop for some gifted kids with teachers not experienced with giftedness -- the kid is bored so opts out of the work; the teacher is irritated; the student is less motivated to do any classwork; the teacher is more irritated; etc. etc. I was ready to give up on public school for my child, and then this year he has a teacher with a master's in gifted ed and it's like the clouds have parted and the sun shines through.

happy for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem like any of the PPs really know what is going on. Clarity would be nice.

I have a highly gifted second grader who has very mixed experiences with teachers. His K teacher and 2 teacher really liked him, and "got" his giftedness. His 1st grade teacher thought he unmotivated -- I doubt she'd recommend him for the program. Unfortunately, there can be kind of a negative feedback loop for some gifted kids with teachers not experienced with giftedness -- the kid is bored so opts out of the work; the teacher is irritated; the student is less motivated to do any classwork; the teacher is more irritated; etc. etc. I was ready to give up on public school for my child, and then this year he has a teacher with a master's in gifted ed and it's like the clouds have parted and the sun shines through.

Only a mom would say this. Any mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem like any of the PPs really know what is going on. Clarity would be nice.

I have a highly gifted second grader who has very mixed experiences with teachers. His K teacher and 2 teacher really liked him, and "got" his giftedness. His 1st grade teacher thought he unmotivated -- I doubt she'd recommend him for the program. Unfortunately, there can be kind of a negative feedback loop for some gifted kids with teachers not experienced with giftedness -- the kid is bored so opts out of the work; the teacher is irritated; the student is less motivated to do any classwork; the teacher is more irritated; etc. etc. I was ready to give up on public school for my child, and then this year he has a teacher with a master's in gifted ed and it's like the clouds have parted and the sun shines through.

Agreed. Good teacher recommendations will flow towards compliant, sitting girls. I have one. I have other children who would not get necessarily get recommendations but are in the math/magnet programs. Those that need the program most are most likely to be mislabeled. They are seen as quirky and different.

Interestingly, the two that can struggle to get recommendations were adored by the teacher who has a PhD in math education from Wisconsin. We only have one in the county and I don't think she has more than 30 students at a time.

I can't be more emphatic that relying on teacher recommendations is a terrible idea. They are not consistent across schools and, while there are wonderful teachers, there are others who are petulant bullies. I would hate for someone's access to a gifted program to be reliant upon the randomness of being assigned a good teacher.

Just make the test publicly available so that everyone can take practice tests. This isn't that complicated. Do outreach to certain schools or groups with after-school help on the practice tests. Take away the competitive advantage that well-off parents have in purchasing practice tests through a tutor for $1,500.

Oh - unless the MCPS teachers make extra money on the side tutoring for those tests....that might be why they refuse to make them public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather an objective test was used to measure one's qualifications consistently than teachers opinions since their views vary and are often subjective.

consistent criteria > subjective criteria applied inconsistently

+1 how can anyone argue with this?

The problem is that standardized tests become less useful to predict which kids need a different kind of education when some of the the kids have been prepped to the teeth before the testing day. So teacher observations of how the student acts in class on a daily basis become an important part of the application process because they help to give a fuller picture of the student. Tests that take place on one or a few days plus reports of daily classroom behavior over time tell us more about a child's learning needs than only one or the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather an objective test was used to measure one's qualifications consistently than teachers opinions since their views vary and are often subjective.

consistent criteria > subjective criteria applied inconsistently

+1 how can anyone argue with this?

The problem is that standardized tests become less useful to predict which kids need a different kind of education when some of the the kids have been prepped to the teeth before the testing day. So teacher observations of how the student acts in class on a daily basis become an important part of the application process because they help to give a fuller picture of the student. Tests that take place on one or a few days plus reports of daily classroom behavior over time tell us more about a child's learning needs than only one or the other.

Quite honestly being "prepped to the teeth" is only going to help kids the who were almost there to begin with; it's not going to drastically alter scores. I also don't believe that the vast majority of kids are prepped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem like any of the PPs really know what is going on. Clarity would be nice.

I have a highly gifted second grader who has very mixed experiences with teachers. His K teacher and 2 teacher really liked him, and "got" his giftedness. His 1st grade teacher thought he unmotivated -- I doubt she'd recommend him for the program. Unfortunately, there can be kind of a negative feedback loop for some gifted kids with teachers not experienced with giftedness -- the kid is bored so opts out of the work; the teacher is irritated; the student is less motivated to do any classwork; the teacher is more irritated; etc. etc. I was ready to give up on public school for my child, and then this year he has a teacher with a master's in gifted ed and it's like the clouds have parted and the sun shines through.

I completely agree with this. Many gifted kids and 2e kids will be overlooked by teachers who have no understanding of what that looks like. It's not always the compliant child who sits at their desk quietly and does their work. In fact, a lot of highly intelligent kids do zone out due to boredom. It also hurts highly intelligent kids with ADHD. A lot of teachers have no idea how to work with these kids and don't get them. If your child gets one of those teachers, and unfortunately there are a lot of them, then don't count on your kid getting identified. I personally have an ADHD child with a very high IQ and if it had been up to his 2nd or 3rd grade teacher to identify him he would never have been accepted into an HGC program. So grateful that we are almost finished with MCPS.