letter received today from MCPS about HGC

[Anonymous]

At the HGC info session, it's explicit stated that not all kids will be tested in the two pilot schools. The school will determine the kids that will be tested. The parents can say no if their kids get selected. Parents can also request to test if their kids do not get selected.

Anonymous wrote:We received a letter today from MCPS about the changes to HGC. It sounds like parents don't get to nominate their child anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong. The letter states:

- All Grade 3 students in your school will be centrally reviewed for potential candidacy for the CPHG rather than parents submitting a parent application. Students who demonstrate an overall above average academic profile will be considered for one of the seats in the CPHG. All parents will be notified of this process in late January 2017. Upon notification, parents will have the option of requesting or declining CPHG testing.

So the question is - will "all parents" be notified in late January or "all parents of kids who have been recommended by the school".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Now you are getting it. That's how MCPS plans to make up classes that reflect county's racial makeup.

This is my fear as well. Not completely unsubstantiated since I 100% agree with all points raised by PP 11:00.

A few other points:
1. there is very little no HGC curriculum as I understand it. This enrichment is based on work done back when HGC teachers had time to plan and/or on teachers on watch.

2. In one of the MCPS reports I read that the pilot test will be an "online assessment". This to most definitely some kind of change since the old test was paper. Somehow I am guessing that somehow magically this new assessment will result in a different racial makeup for admitted students and the pilot will be a big success

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a move to make sure the program is not dominated by Asian/white kids. When politics get in the way of education, we all lose.

My kid is Asian and attended HGC. I don't see anything wrong with MCPS trying to reach out to other groups to encourage their kids to apply. It doesn't mean that they are necessarily going to lower the standards for the URM kids to get in (I hope not). I see it as more of an outreach type thing than anything else.

Exactly. A lot of the URM parents at our ES are unengaged for a variety of reasons. As a result, they may not be as aggressively looking to take advantage of these opportunities even if their kids qualify. So long as it does not mean lowering standards, I think it is an excellent way for the school to identify and test all kids who meet minimum standards. I also think that adding more HGC centers in east and north county schools is an excellent idea.

[Anonymous]

I 100% agree with having more kids tested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is a fantastic idea to routinely test all children in third grade and not have parents initiate the process. Of course you could argue they have been doing that all along with global screening in second grade but no matter, I agree that they are more likely to admit qualified URMs if everyone is tested.
I think the concern I have is that they also seem to be moving in three other directions that might lower the quality and scope of the HGCs:
1. The pilot program in two elementary schools which simply moves the top tier of students into a class that purports to offer a HGC curriculum but is likely to in fact be considerably watered down because these children while highly able are unlikely to all be highly gifted if we remember that highly gifted kids are in the top 3% of the population. There is a significant and measurable difference between the top 25% of students and the top 3% of students.
2. They are expanding the number of seats in the HGCs by 50%. This also runs the risk of lowering the standards in the program but I am less concerned by this - the difference between the top 5% and the top 3% is not as significant as the difference between the top 25% and the top 3%. It will however qualitatively alter the pace, rigor and the level of enrichment in the HGCs.
3. MCPS's track record over the last decade clearly demonstrates that their number one priority is to close the achievement gap.
They have not demonstrated a similar commitment to all groups of students which is why parents of gifted children (a small minority of the school population at 3%) have needed to be extremely vigilant. It was not many years ago that MCPS threatened to do away with transportation for magnet students. They have reduced funding for staffing in magnet programs so that it is harder for teachers in Blair SMAC for instance to get the time to plan and update curriculum or to advise/mentor students during their signature research project in 11th and 12th grade.
At the same time, they have redoubled their efforts to close the achievement gap. This is a laudable goal and I support some of their efforts including ensuring that schools with high FARMS and high ESOL populations receive more funding to ensure adequate staffing so that these children are able to reach their full potential.

They have however also taken another approach to closing the achievement gap that I strongly disagree with:
A. They have responded to gaps in testing scores by lowering standards (doing away with final exams in high school, padding final exam grades as in the case of the Algebra I, or in the case of RQE ensuring that a terrible grade on this test (which is most likely due to the curriculum not matching up with the RQE) does not affect the student's grade. In comparison, in my child's magnet classes, the expectations are very high and if my child does not master the material, his grade will reflect this. Very few kids get straight As in these demanding classes but there is no question that the tests and exams truly measure student understanding and achievement. The teachers are given enough autonomy to hold the line and maintain high standards without interference from administrators.
B. Every program that has been designed to serve the brightest kids has been under attack as being "inequitable". Not so long ago in MCPS, there was a gifted track in middle school. Then MCPS decided that this was inequitable and it was better to have a "middle school reform" that would ensure higher standards for all students. This resulted in all schools offering on grade level and advanced classes. In my "W" cluster middle school, nearly all children take advanced classes which effectively means that over time, the standards have to be lowered as you have students at different levels being taught in the same classroom.
C. They have nearly entirely done away with ability grouping for Mathematics. There are numerous threads on this forum dealing with the negative consequences of this hare brained scheme.
D. Finally, after messing things up in our home elem, middle and high schools they have trained their sights on the HGCs and I am sure the middle school and high school magnets are next. What they have proposed so far (the pilot programs for a Fairfax County style approach and the increase in the number of seats in the HGCs) is likely to be the beginning. There was much talk during the discussions about the Choice Study Report of changing the admissions criteria and making them more "holistic" - read non-academic. This is a slippery slope. I support any academic initiative that makes it more likely for URMs to succeed in the magnet tests (universal preschool, more ESOL resources, more reading specialists in K-2), but we should not change the standards for admission in part because it is unfair to the more qualified applicant who loses his or her spot and in part because it will necessitate a lowering of standards in the program. MCPS has a dismal track record on this front so of course parents who care about these programs are right to be concerned with any attempt to change the scope of the program and the admissions criteria.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the HGC info session, it's explicit stated that not all kids will be tested in the two pilot schools. The school will determine the kids that will be tested. The parents can say no if their kids get selected. Parents can also request to test if their kids do not get selected.

Anonymous wrote:We received a letter today from MCPS about the changes to HGC. It sounds like parents don't get to nominate their child anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong. The letter states:

- All Grade 3 students in your school will be centrally reviewed for potential candidacy for the CPHG rather than parents submitting a parent application. Students who demonstrate an overall above average academic profile will be considered for one of the seats in the CPHG. All parents will be notified of this process in late January 2017. Upon notification, parents will have the option of requesting or declining CPHG testing.

So the question is - will "all parents" be notified in late January or "all parents of kids who have been recommended by the school".

This is OP - thanks for actually answering my question. That's good to know that parents can still have their kids tested whether or not the school recommends.

[Anonymous]

What happens if a more diverse crowd gets selected through the school-selected process, but the yield of URMs accepting a center is low because of the difficult transportation arrangements? My kid is in the HGC and it requires parents to drive kids to a bus stop in the morning and to pick them up in the evening at 5 pm.

I hear what folks are saying about watering down a good program, but isn't a home-school model really the only solution to the logistical piece?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What happens if a more diverse crowd gets selected through the school-selected process, but the yield of URMs accepting a center is low because of the difficult transportation arrangements? My kid is in the HGC and it requires parents to drive kids to a bus stop in the morning and to pick them up in the evening at 5 pm.

I hear what folks are saying about watering down a good program, but isn't a home-school model really the only solution to the logistical piece?

+1 I'd also support a home school model for most, and a tippity top .5% model for the truly gifted (rather than just bright and well coached). I can think of one child (not even my own kid's age) that might fit that bill, so having a set-aside school for the profoundly gifted the same way we have set-aside schools for kids with other kids of needs would make a lot of sense to me.

[Anonymous]

So with the home school model, small ESs with two classes per grade have a 50% gifted program and large ESs with 5 classes per grade have a 20% gifted program. This is not a gifted program at all and it is not fair...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens if a more diverse crowd gets selected through the school-selected process, but the yield of URMs accepting a center is low because of the difficult transportation arrangements? My kid is in the HGC and it requires parents to drive kids to a bus stop in the morning and to pick them up in the evening at 5 pm.

I hear what folks are saying about watering down a good program, but isn't a home-school model really the only solution to the logistical piece?

+1 I'd also support a home school model for most, and a tippity top .5% model for the truly gifted (rather than just bright and well coached). I can think of one child (not even my own kid's age) that might fit that bill, so having a set-aside school for the profoundly gifted the same way we have set-aside schools for kids with other kids of needs would make a lot of sense to me.

Sounds good - but what would that mean for schools that only have two or three classes per grade. Would one whole class be the "advanced" kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So with the home school model, small ESs with two classes per grade have a 50% gifted program and large ESs with 5 classes per grade have a 20% gifted program. This is not a gifted program at all and it is not fair...

Honestly I don't think its fair to the kids who aren't "gifted" either. Something feels wrong about separating the "gifted" kids into one class and leaving everyone else in another class (in the case of two classes per grade).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So with the home school model, small ESs with two classes per grade have a 50% gifted program and large ESs with 5 classes per grade have a 20% gifted program. This is not a gifted program at all and it is not fair...

Well given 50% of kids are labeled "gifted" maybe it's not a bad idea. But, seriously, at some point, you gotta say "what's the point?".

[Anonymous]

At our home school, where there is about a 40% FARMS rate and many well educated middle/upper middle class families as well, I think that making a whole class HGC would be detrimental to closing the achievement gap. It would have the opposite effect of MCPS's goal with these pilots. It would just be tracking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our home school, where there is about a 40% FARMS rate and many well educated middle/upper middle class families as well, I think that making a whole class HGC would be detrimental to closing the achievement gap. It would have the opposite effect of MCPS's goal with these pilots. It would just be tracking.

I agree. I'm not sure there is a one size fits all approach with HGC honestly....

[Anonymous]

HGC should follow the soccer model and just give every kid a trophy! This would totally fix the achievement gap!