Pre-calc is exposing holes in my step-son's education. Wtd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did well in college calculus, but I'm far too rusty to be much help, and don't want to be a step-parent/tutor. No way.

What I don't get is how does a tutor identify holes from old material? I've never seen a tutor try to deep dive and seek out holes, they typically just try to help you get through current material. Wouldn't that first require a comprehensive math test, e.g. print off an old ACT math test?

This is exactly what Mathnasium purports to do. You pay for an initial eval, which shows what the student knows and doesn't know (i.e., iany holes in the student's math education), and then a curriculum is proposed based on the results. Students are encouraged to go twice per week. No personal experience with the program, btw, but I know many people who send their kids to Mathnasium and are happy with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would look for a general math tutor to relearn him the alg 1 & 2 areas he may be weak and who can support him with pre-cal.

My DD's pre-cal teacher told us that pre-cal was the course to "make 'em or break 'em" meaning if they did well, then they should do well in future higher math classes needed at the college level, but if they did poorly, they'd need to seek extra help or pick majors that just need a basic math requirement.

I agree with the bolded. My son is a fantastic humanities student and pretty good at science. But math is definitely a weak subject for him. He started to take pre-cal as a junior, and just couldn't do it, no matter how hard he studied and how many different tutors we hired. It just wasn't going to click and his life was becoming miserable. Finally, a light-bulb went off and we told him he could drop it - just flat out drop it. He was SO relieved to remove that major stressor from his life. He knew he wouldn't be pursuing a STEM degree, so it wasn't as if he needed Calculus. His senior year, he took Stats and really enjoyed it (comparatively speaking!). No problem with college acceptances either.

I honestly don't know why students are pushed into taking pre-calc and calculus if they have no interest in pursuing a math/STEM degree or career. It's an insane amount of work and stress, and for what, exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would look for a general math tutor to relearn him the alg 1 & 2 areas he may be weak and who can support him with pre-cal.

My DD's pre-cal teacher told us that pre-cal was the course to "make 'em or break 'em" meaning if they did well, then they should do well in future higher math classes needed at the college level, but if they did poorly, they'd need to seek extra help or pick majors that just need a basic math requirement.

I agree with the bolded. My son is a fantastic humanities student and pretty good at science. But math is definitely a weak subject for him. He started to take pre-cal as a junior, and just couldn't do it, no matter how hard he studied and how many different tutors we hired. It just wasn't going to click and his life was becoming miserable. Finally, a light-bulb went off and we told him he could drop it - just flat out drop it. He was SO relieved to remove that major stressor from his life. He knew he wouldn't be pursuing a STEM degree, so it wasn't as if he needed Calculus. His senior year, he took Stats and really enjoyed it (comparatively speaking!). No problem with college acceptances either.

I honestly don't know why students are pushed into taking pre-calc and calculus if they have no interest in pursuing a math/STEM degree or career. It's an insane amount of work and stress, and for what, exactly?

The world is becoming pretty analytical.

What college did your son end up at?

[Anonymous]

Tutor twice a week for 60 minute sessions. Have tutor assign alg 1 and alg 2 homework problems to have done by the next session.

[Anonymous]

How old is he? He might just need another year before it will click.

As a MS I struggled with Algebra then took Algebra 2 in 10th grade and suddenly it was so much easier and clicked better. I think developmentally I just wasn't there in terms of doing higher level math until 10th grade (I was also a year younger than most kids in my grade - Dec cut off back in those days)

If it's really not going well, and you think he would like to pursue a degree that will have a heavy math component, have him drop from this class to a lower level math and just work on filling in the gaps on his current math learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would look for a general math tutor to relearn him the alg 1 & 2 areas he may be weak and who can support him with pre-cal.

My DD's pre-cal teacher told us that pre-cal was the course to "make 'em or break 'em" meaning if they did well, then they should do well in future higher math classes needed at the college level, but if they did poorly, they'd need to seek extra help or pick majors that just need a basic math requirement.

I agree with the bolded. My son is a fantastic humanities student and pretty good at science. But math is definitely a weak subject for him. He started to take pre-cal as a junior, and just couldn't do it, no matter how hard he studied and how many different tutors we hired. It just wasn't going to click and his life was becoming miserable. Finally, a light-bulb went off and we told him he could drop it - just flat out drop it. He was SO relieved to remove that major stressor from his life. He knew he wouldn't be pursuing a STEM degree, so it wasn't as if he needed Calculus. His senior year, he took Stats and really enjoyed it (comparatively speaking!). No problem with college acceptances either.

I honestly don't know why students are pushed into taking pre-calc and calculus if they have no interest in pursuing a math/STEM degree or career. It's an insane amount of work and stress, and for what, exactly?

I'm not sure about in Va, buy in MD students are required to take math every year in HS to receive a diploma, so although you might be able to drop a class, you need to replace it with another, or take a math course over the summer.

This is definitely something parents need to consider when they think about advancing kids above their regular grade level in math. Often when you skip a year, or "compact" a year some gaps are created. For many kids these gaps don't show up until higher level math courses. They can get by with memorizing standard algorithms in 5th and 6th grade w/o a strong grasp of the mathematical concepts, but then when it comes to building on those concepts and generalizing them to more abstract mathematical concepts the students struggle.

I know my comments are not helpful to OP and I apologize, but wanted to give a heads up to parents reading this and considering decisions earlier in their students schooling.

OP- there are definitely tutors who can help identify the gaps and "back map" the current content to the gaps, so they will work on both simultaneously. So, fill in the gaps needed for the current material. All topics may not work this way, but many will. That way your DD will get the benefit immediately with current content. I'd talk with the school, often they have good recommendations. Retired teachers often make great tutors in situations like this. I'd look for someone who understands teaching, not just math.

Best of luck

[Anonymous]

I think the problem is that we are pushing Algebra too early. Middle school kids can certainly learn and pass Algebra I, but I think they miss some of the critical concepts simply because most are just not ready. The holes are often exposed later in higher level math classes. My best math students took Algebra I in 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

We have had some really terrific tutors from Educational Connections, including one for math/physics.
http://ectutoring.com/
Completely recommend the diagnostic testing.

[Anonymous]

He's 16.

[Anonymous]

"How do you know that there are "holes" in his education - perhaps he's just not good at taking tests and that is why his test grades are lower than his homework grades?


Sorry, I don't subscribe to the not good at tests thing. You either know the material or you don't."

That's just stupid. Are you the OP? It doesn't matter how well you know the material if you misread the question or don't pace yourself correctly, which are test taking abilities not math abilities. Or if you have anxiety attacks and can't focus - that's a mental health issue not an issue with your math education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would look for a general math tutor to relearn him the alg 1 & 2 areas he may be weak and who can support him with pre-cal.

My DD's pre-cal teacher told us that pre-cal was the course to "make 'em or break 'em" meaning if they did well, then they should do well in future higher math classes needed at the college level, but if they did poorly, they'd need to seek extra help or pick majors that just need a basic math requirement.

I agree with the bolded. My son is a fantastic humanities student and pretty good at science. But math is definitely a weak subject for him. He started to take pre-cal as a junior, and just couldn't do it, no matter how hard he studied and how many different tutors we hired. It just wasn't going to click and his life was becoming miserable. Finally, a light-bulb went off and we told him he could drop it - just flat out drop it. He was SO relieved to remove that major stressor from his life. He knew he wouldn't be pursuing a STEM degree, so it wasn't as if he needed Calculus. His senior year, he took Stats and really enjoyed it (comparatively speaking!). No problem with college acceptances either.

I honestly don't know why students are pushed into taking pre-calc and calculus if they have no interest in pursuing a math/STEM degree or career. It's an insane amount of work and stress, and for what, exactly?

The world is becoming pretty analytical.

What college did your son end up at?

Middlebury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is that we are pushing Algebra too early. Middle school kids can certainly learn and pass Algebra I, but I think they miss some of the critical concepts simply because most are just not ready. The holes are often exposed later in higher level math classes. My best math students took Algebra I in 9th grade.

+100
It's a real shame high schools and colleges are pushing so hard for kids to take calculus. If they would stop with the pressure, and just require four years of math, without specifying calc., then more kids would wait until 9th grade to take Algebra instead of trying to get through it in 8th grade. Most people do NOT need calculus, especially those not interested in STEM degrees/careers.

[Anonymous]

Anyone have a link to a high school level math diagnostic exam?

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Khan Academy - online and free.

It will give you diagnostic tests, and then practice equations where there are holes. The video tutorials are really helpful.

Khan Academy has been such a help to my DD - I donate to them now. What a great free resource.

This. The diagnostic test nailed my DC's skipped topics.

I can't find the Khan diagnostic exam. Help please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Make sure you get a math tutor to support him in re-learning areas that he missed in previous math classes. There has been such a push for "acceleration" in math that many students are finding out later that there are fundamental concepts that they have not mastered.

In some cases the missed or not mastered material is really really basic. KIds are fuzzy on fractions, decimals, percents and ratios... 6th and even 5th and fourth grade stuff.

They may know that 3/4 means 3 parts out of 4, but not understand that it is also 3 divided by 4, and also 3 times 1/4... and also 3 times .25....