American University student government demands 'trigger warnings' be added to every class syllabus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college professor and this would be really tough to adhere to.

I have a few classes that are almost entirely student-directed projects (for which I direct them through their work/methodology/concept/research) - if one of them wants to focus on abortion as opposed to something more vanilla, then they can damn well do that. So what does the trigger warning read: "There might be some things addressed here that are upsetting to some of you?" That's life. That's college. That's what you signed up for. I'm willing to mediate any inappropriate provocations or conduct[i], but this is just silly.

There is no way I would sit in your class or anybody else's and be called the N-word. I wouldn't tolerate it. It's not up for discussion. It's not what I signed up for. It's not what I pay for. There is no mediation nor am I leaving the room.

And as far as your opinion that "they can damn well do that", I don't think so, not to my face for the gratification of someone's definition of free speech. I don’t need a safe space, and I'm not putting up with nonsense either.

I think you may have not read my post thoroughly. Because I agree with you, as most sane people would, and as you will see when you re-read the bold text.

There is a difference between "mediate" and "cease and desist."

You can cease and desist an individual's offensive conduct without ceasing an entire class dialogue. That is called mediating.

I'm sure the poster wouldn't want to be a part of that discussion whether it's mediated or not. Why would anyone want to be a part of a hostile environment? Simply leave. Nothing to do with safe space, just not wanting to be insulted. Sounds sane to me.

That's a real thing, and I respect it. Some people - students and older adults - just don't want to take part in conversations about certain subjects. If a student came to me and said "Hey, it is upsetting me to talk about Larla's project about abortion/drugs/violence/sustainable farming what can we do about it?" I would listen to that student, and offer to put her in discussion groups and critiques that Larla is not part of. I'd encourage her to remove herself from class if she needs to - I'll get it, because she told me she might need to. I'm not an ass, but I can't go around teaching a course that does a deep-dive into critical thinking while also saying "aaaaand we can't talk about tough stuff." That there may be tough stuff seems implicit in the overall experience of higher education, notwithstanding Liberty University.

College student's perspective here, skip my post with my apologies if it's not welcome:

Trigger warnings don't say you can't talk about things though, do they? Isn't it literally just saying to include a note on the syllabus or send an email or something once you know the potentially upsetting topics that will be presented? Then you can go right ahead and talk about whatever it is, as long as everyone knows when they come into class that that's what will be happening that day so they can do (or have done in advance) whatever they need to do in order to be prepared to be involved in the topic.

As a survivor of violent sexual assault that involved several other additional factors that would also fairly commonly get trigger warnings if trigger warnings are being used, I know I personally would really appreciate a bit of warning like that, and it would help my performance in class to have such a warning if applicable. I'm not going to fall apart during a class presentation about sexual assault, violent crime, abuse, drugs, or abortions (because if worst comes to worst and I know I'm about to have a flashback or trauma response, I'll leave class rather than let anyone notice or be disturbing anyone)... but if it's sprung on me completely unexpectedly I will definitely have a harder time dealing with the emotional aftermath than I would have if I'd known the class session before the presentation and could have prepared myself in advance to be confronted with all of that again. That's likely as simple as calling my mom or stepmom or a friend and asking if they can provide a little extra emotional support that night or a check-in right after class or something. I wouldn't make it the professor's job to babysit me or their business to handle my issues, but I would definitely appreciate the compassionate forethought shown by any professor who did give me that warning so I could make arrangements in advance to handle myself rather than scrambling to do so after the fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college professor and this would be really tough to adhere to.

I have a few classes that are almost entirely student-directed projects (for which I direct them through their work/methodology/concept/research) - if one of them wants to focus on abortion as opposed to something more vanilla, then they can damn well do that. So what does the trigger warning read: "There might be some things addressed here that are upsetting to some of you?" That's life. That's college. That's what you signed up for. I'm willing to mediate any inappropriate provocations or conduct, but this is just silly.

There is no way I would sit in your class or anybody else's and be called the N-word. I wouldn't tolerate it. It's not up for discussion. It's not what I signed up for. It's not what I pay for. There is no mediation nor am I leaving the room.

And as far as your opinion that "they can damn well do that", I don't think so, not to my face for the gratification of someone's definition of free speech. I don’t need a safe space, and I'm not putting up with nonsense either.

First Amendment... freedom of speech. If the person points out something that may be painful but does it in an intellectual manner that looks into the roots/histories of discrimination I think accepting the N-word may expand everyones horizons. Professors usually do not allow students to go down racist rants.

ALso, are you going to ban literature, like Tom Sawyer and other literature coming out of the south (even written by African Americans) if the N-word is included? I think my entire reading list of my second have my my senior year of high school would have banned according to your perspective, as well as the literature I read in my second year of college sociology class when we went over the root causes behind the civil rights movement. As a white kid from a small town, this type literature and discussions taught me a lot and I learned a very different perspective of the world. That is what I paid tuition for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college professor and this would be really tough to adhere to.

I have a few classes that are almost entirely student-directed projects (for which I direct them through their work/methodology/concept/research) - if one of them wants to focus on abortion as opposed to something more vanilla, then they can damn well do that. So what does the trigger warning read: "There might be some things addressed here that are upsetting to some of you?" That's life. That's college. That's what you signed up for. I'm willing to mediate any inappropriate provocations or conduct[i], but this is just silly.

There is no way I would sit in your class or anybody else's and be called the N-word. I wouldn't tolerate it. It's not up for discussion. It's not what I signed up for. It's not what I pay for. There is no mediation nor am I leaving the room.

And as far as your opinion that "they can damn well do that", I don't think so, not to my face for the gratification of someone's definition of free speech. I don’t need a safe space, and I'm not putting up with nonsense either.

I think you may have not read my post thoroughly. Because I agree with you, as most sane people would, and as you will see when you re-read the bold text.

There is a difference between "mediate" and "cease and desist."

You can cease and desist an individual's offensive conduct without ceasing an entire class dialogue. That is called mediating.

I'm sure the poster wouldn't want to be a part of that discussion whether it's mediated or not. Why would anyone want to be a part of a hostile environment? Simply leave. Nothing to do with safe space, just not wanting to be insulted. Sounds sane to me.

That's a real thing, and I respect it. Some people - students and older adults - just don't want to take part in conversations about certain subjects. If a student came to me and said "Hey, it is upsetting me to talk about Larla's project about abortion/drugs/violence/sustainable farming what can we do about it?" I would listen to that student, and offer to put her in discussion groups and critiques that Larla is not part of. I'd encourage her to remove herself from class if she needs to - I'll get it, because she told me she might need to. I'm not an ass, but I can't go around teaching a course that does a deep-dive into critical thinking while also saying "aaaaand we can't talk about tough stuff." That there may be tough stuff seems implicit in the overall experience of higher education, notwithstanding Liberty University.

SO - then what happens when this person gets out to the real world and does not like what other people have to say? When will they have the opportunity to learn from others and grow/change their perspective, or at least learn to sit quietly and know you disagree but see the person is making a logically presented argument (that you despise with every fiber of your being)? Its not about your or your class... but this is what worries me about trigger warning. It fosters fragility.

Also, how do you know what a trigger warning should be if everyone has something that could be different? Could they not gleen from the course description that a topic that may be difficult for them may be covered and just take another class? It's not like we talked a lot about rape or incest in my business classes, but we did in psychology and sociology.

[Anonymous]

This thread went off the rails quickly. Seems some people are looking to be insulted, offended or just want to fight. I don't think "trigger warnings" will help. These folks who are ultra sensitive to WORDS and ideas inconsistent with their own are going to have a difficult time in college and in life - and so are the people who have to deal with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college professor and this would be really tough to adhere to.

I have a few classes that are almost entirely student-directed projects (for which I direct them through their work/methodology/concept/research) - if one of them wants to focus on abortion as opposed to something more vanilla, then they can damn well do that. So what does the trigger warning read: "There might be some things addressed here that are upsetting to some of you?" That's life. That's college. That's what you signed up for. I'm willing to mediate any inappropriate provocations or conduct, but this is just silly.

There is no way I would sit in your class or anybody else's and be called the N-word. I wouldn't tolerate it. It's not up for discussion. It's not what I signed up for. It's not what I pay for. There is no mediation nor am I leaving the room.

And as far as your opinion that "they can damn well do that", I don't think so, not to my face for the gratification of someone's definition of free speech. I don’t need a safe space, and I'm not putting up with nonsense either.

Where did you get that from this person's post?

I'm giving an example based on the professor's comment 'that's life, that's college, that's what you signed up for.' There will always be those who will test the new found freedoms of free speech as indicated by UChicago. And that's fine. It is one thing to have intelligent heated political discussion. It's another thing to exercise vulgarity under the guise of free speech discussion.

Your reasonable question is indicative how people view experiences through different lenses and what they would deem reasonable for others but unreasonable for themselves. I appreciate your question.

No. You didn't read the whole post, which clearly made the same point that you then bashed the professor for not making. No one is excusing vulgarity under the guise of free speech. No one is insulting or threatening you. - The Professor

Respectfully, not only did I read your post, it is apparent you didn't understand my train of thought. I would never suggest or assume you did not read mine. However, I have a paper due and that is where my focus will be. Trading unintelligent barbs (present PP excluded) is not how I roll.

Have at it. I don't have the time and I KNOW how to pick my battles. This definitely isn't one of them. I made my argument.

Hmm, it seems we're at an impasse. I read your post...several times actually. When I said that college is a place you come to grow and learn and sometimes talk about things that are hard to talk about (I am paraphrasing), you said it is not a place that you come to be called names (again, I am paraphrasing). Those are false equivalencies, and totally unrelated. As for you quoting my "you can damn well do that" as being on board with anyone's free speech being violated, you clearly just did not understand the context; it was referring to students having the freedom to pick their own research topics and develop their own lines of inquiry through study regardless of what the topics are (within reason). I think you might have a tough time in my class, not so much due to sensitivity, but because you are not reading what I am putting out there and not open to me trying to explain it to you. Good luck on your paper!

NP. I'm going to weigh in here, professor. I think you had an opportunity to open up a real discussion with that young poster but instead you questioned his/her intelligence by stating they would be incapable of being successful in your class. Unfortunately, I'll be that door is slammed shut now. Nobody, not even you apparently, wants their position or reasoning challenged.

I can appreciate your title and position, but I think your comment was unnecessary and insulting. If that is your idea of mediating, well, I would try a different approach. Encouraging more dialogue would have been the approach I would've taken, not questioning that young person's intelligence.

No, I think that the professor was pointing out, rather politely, that in order to do well in his criticial thinking class that you need to be able read not only the words that are written, but the intent/meaning of what is being said.. rather than a knee-jerk reaction based upon preconceived opinions of the topic. The professor was also implying that if you are unwilling to accept the fact that students have different perspectives (which he supports if done in a respectful manner) that the poster would also have a hard time in his class. I am sure the professor would accept the student in their class, but may have some reservations based upon initial feedback of the persons ability to be successful.

I did not read anything insulting in the reply - nor shutting the person down.

College is to learn and grow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread went off the rails quickly. Seems some people are looking to be insulted, offended or just want to fight. I don't think "trigger warnings" will help. These folks who are ultra sensitive to WORDS and ideas inconsistent with their own are going to have a difficult time in college and in life - and so are the people who have to deal with them.

I guess this explains better the world of people that need trigger warnings, they are to sensitive and look for ways to be easily offended by things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college professor and this would be really tough to adhere to.

I have a few classes that are almost entirely student-directed projects (for which I direct them through their work/methodology/concept/research) - if one of them wants to focus on abortion as opposed to something more vanilla, then they can damn well do that. So what does the trigger warning read: "There might be some things addressed here that are upsetting to some of you?" That's life. That's college. That's what you signed up for. I'm willing to mediate any inappropriate provocations or conduct[i], but this is just silly.

There is no way I would sit in your class or anybody else's and be called the N-word. I wouldn't tolerate it. It's not up for discussion. It's not what I signed up for. It's not what I pay for. There is no mediation nor am I leaving the room.

And as far as your opinion that "they can damn well do that", I don't think so, not to my face for the gratification of someone's definition of free speech. I don’t need a safe space, and I'm not putting up with nonsense either.

I think you may have not read my post thoroughly. Because I agree with you, as most sane people would, and as you will see when you re-read the bold text.

There is a difference between "mediate" and "cease and desist."

You can cease and desist an individual's offensive conduct without ceasing an entire class dialogue. That is called mediating.

I'm sure the poster wouldn't want to be a part of that discussion whether it's mediated or not. Why would anyone want to be a part of a hostile environment? Simply leave. Nothing to do with safe space, just not wanting to be insulted. Sounds sane to me.

That's a real thing, and I respect it. Some people - students and older adults - just don't want to take part in conversations about certain subjects. If a student came to me and said "Hey, it is upsetting me to talk about Larla's project about abortion/drugs/violence/sustainable farming what can we do about it?" I would listen to that student, and offer to put her in discussion groups and critiques that Larla is not part of. I'd encourage her to remove herself from class if she needs to - I'll get it, because she told me she might need to. I'm not an ass, but I can't go around teaching a course that does a deep-dive into critical thinking while also saying "aaaaand we can't talk about tough stuff." That there may be tough stuff seems implicit in the overall experience of higher education, notwithstanding Liberty University.

And if I were the professor, I would tell Larla that she is 18 years old now (at least) and it's time to grow up a little.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone think that trigger warning and safe spaces will make their way into the work force once these snowflakes graduate?

The office is already pretty PC, but the expectation is often that you need to suck it up and do your job.

[Anonymous]

^^^And I bet you were so worldly at 18.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^And I bet you were so worldly at 18.

Perhaps not, but I learned, I grew and I did it all without mandated trigger warnings and safe spaces. Also, when I entered the real world I learned quickly that it was not the warm fuzzy world of college and that I was pretty much at the bottom of the pyramid and had to work hard for opportunities, at the same time tolerate people and situations that I disagreed with.

My concern is that the current environment is not going to prepare young people for the professional world, and am curious if this will just bring them into the "real world"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As far as I can tell, "students want trigger warnings" means roughly "students want to be advised in advance what the basic content of the course is including areas that could potentially be incredibly upsetting or harmful to someone's mental health to be confronted with unprepared."

So... students want informed consent in advance to exactly what they're getting into?

That doesn't sound like a big deal to me, nor does it seem unreasonable. From what I have seen, television shows, movies, many commercials, news programs, and most books do this already. Doesn't seem too absurd to want to know what you're getting into in order to decide if you can handle it and know of any special preparation you might need to do in order to be ABLE to handle it, especially advance of a particularly intense class session/discussion.

I can see your point that some people may want to be forewarned.. but are course descriptions not already clear on this? As for being assigned to read certain books, I'm sure the plot is easily found with a quick Google search, so anyone who is concerned about that can easily find this information. Why should the university be doing all this work when students can do it on their own?

Real life doesn't come with trigger warnings, and those who may be triggered take steps to avoid such a situation. I imagine the read up on the plot of a movie they plan to watch or book they plan to read before starting it. Can't university students do the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread went off the rails quickly. Seems some people are looking to be insulted, offended or just want to fight. I don't think "trigger warnings" will help. These folks who are ultra sensitive to WORDS and ideas inconsistent with their own are going to have a difficult time in college and in life - and so are the people who have to deal with them.

I guess this explains better the world of people that need trigger warnings, they are to sensitive and look for ways to be easily offended by things.

What a ridiculous statement. If these same people were to strongly dispute and vigorously defend their positions on what they consider offensive, you would accuse them of being overbearing and combative. I am not a proponent of safe spaces in the thought of having a place to run and hide. But I think no one should be forced to be denigrated, and if they choose to leave to the respite of a library or the shade of a tree, that is their prerogative. Good, debatable discussion whether it's abortion, race, war, or hair color is fine. The line is crossed when it becomes personal. I am a well-educated, financially secure adult, and I would not stand for it. I have seen a multitude of posts right here in this thread who have taken it from debate to personal.

I thought about that kid who posted he wouldn't tolerate being called a vulgar name for the purpose of classroom discussion. I wonder how many here would draw the line at a certain point on the vileness of ethnic name calling in a discussion of which there are a multitude for whites. Yes, we could have a discussion about the origin without even using those words. But what happens when the discussion becomes heated and the vile names are no longer just a discussion topic? I am going to take a liberty here to explain my thought....if during the discussion the n-word is used repeatedly to make a point, the recipient should have the same right to use the word 'peckerwood', 'honkey', etc (some so vulgar if I put them, the moderator would definitely delete). I can just envision the words that would go back and forth and even with mediation, the damage is done.

My final point is while there should always be good, healthy debate, there is a line when crossed is difficult to uncross. The PP spoke of people being "sensitive and look for ways to easily be offended by things." There is no doubt that if any discussion were to get too close to personal offensive, he or she would not be so quick to sit gently and no in agreement. Nothing to do with being sensitive. Everything to do with respect. And I don't care how much you're paying for tuition. It's not all about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread went off the rails quickly. Seems some people are looking to be insulted, offended or just want to fight. I don't think "trigger warnings" will help. These folks who are ultra sensitive to WORDS and ideas inconsistent with their own are going to have a difficult time in college and in life - and so are the people who have to deal with them.

I guess this explains better the world of people that need trigger warnings, they are to sensitive and look for ways to be easily offended by things.

What a ridiculous statement. If these same people were to strongly dispute and vigorously defend their positions on what they consider offensive, you would accuse them of being overbearing and combative. I am not a proponent of safe spaces in the thought of having a place to run and hide. But I think no one should be forced to be denigrated, and if they choose to leave to the respite of a library or the shade of a tree, that is their prerogative. Good, debatable discussion whether it's abortion, race, war, or hair color is fine. The line is crossed when it becomes personal. I am a well-educated, financially secure adult, and I would not stand for it. I have seen a multitude of posts right here in this thread who have taken it from debate to personal.

I thought about that kid who posted he wouldn't tolerate being called a vulgar name for the purpose of classroom discussion. I wonder how many here would draw the line at a certain point on the vileness of ethnic name calling in a discussion of which there are a multitude for whites. Yes, we could have a discussion about the origin without even using those words. But what happens when the discussion becomes heated and the vile names are no longer just a discussion topic? I am going to take a liberty here to explain my thought....if during the discussion the n-word is used repeatedly to make a point, the recipient should have the same right to use the word 'peckerwood', 'honkey', etc (some so vulgar if I put them, the moderator would definitely delete). I can just envision the words that would go back and forth and even with mediation, the damage is done.

My final point is while there should always be good, healthy debate, there is a line when crossed is difficult to uncross. The PP spoke of people being "sensitive and look for ways to easily be offended by things." There is no doubt that if any discussion were to get too close to personal offensive, he or she would not be so quick to sit gently and no in agreement. Nothing to do with being sensitive. Everything to do with respect. And I don't care how much you're paying for tuition. It's not all about you.

*nod*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^And I bet you were so worldly at 18.

Perhaps not, but I learned, I grew and I did it all without mandated trigger warnings and safe spaces. Also, when I entered the real world I learned quickly that it was not the warm fuzzy world of college and that I was pretty much at the bottom of the pyramid and had to work hard for opportunities, at the same time tolerate people and situations that I disagreed with.

My concern is that the current environment is not going to prepare young people for the professional world, and am curious if this will just bring them into the "real world"

The "real world" is adaptable and any working person knows you don't show and at least do some semblance of work, you don't get paid. That is the real world. You can tolerate people and situations that you don't disagree with. Professional and non-professionals do it EVERY day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College student's perspective here, skip my post with my apologies if it's not welcome:

Trigger warnings don't say you can't talk about things though, do they? Isn't it literally just saying to include a note on the syllabus or send an email or something once you know the potentially upsetting topics that will be presented? Then you can go right ahead and talk about whatever it is, as long as everyone knows when they come into class that that's what will be happening that day so they can do (or have done in advance) whatever they need to do in order to be prepared to be involved in the topic.

As a survivor of violent sexual assault that involved several other additional factors that would also fairly commonly get trigger warnings if trigger warnings are being used, I know I personally would really appreciate a bit of warning like that, and it would help my performance in class to have such a warning if applicable. I'm not going to fall apart during a class presentation about sexual assault, violent crime, abuse, drugs, or abortions (because if worst comes to worst and I know I'm about to have a flashback or trauma response, I'll leave class rather than let anyone notice or be disturbing anyone)... but if it's sprung on me completely unexpectedly I will definitely have a harder time dealing with the emotional aftermath than I would have if I'd known the class session before the presentation and could have prepared myself in advance to be confronted with all of that again. That's likely as simple as calling my mom or stepmom or a friend and asking if they can provide a little extra emotional support that night or a check-in right after class or something. I wouldn't make it the professor's job to babysit me or their business to handle my issues, but I would definitely appreciate the compassionate forethought shown by any professor who did give me that warning so I could make arrangements in advance to handle myself rather than scrambling to do so after the fact.

This makes sense to me. I appreciate your post.