Hardy - extended day

[Anonymous]

A lot of complaints you hear on Hardy have to do with feeder school families/IB families feeling entitled to honors track. Instead, the equivalence IB = honors track is not endorsed by the teachers.

Be aware that the resistance to admit more students to the accelerated path comes from the teachers , not from the Principal. Hardy math teachers make clear all the time that they would accelerate students only when a student has the skills and drive to master the next level. Ms Bax explained in more than one occasion that class misplacement in math can adversely and permanently affect individuals confidence in their math abilities and cause fear, and closure towards the subject. And she does not want that for any of her students.

[Anonymous]

Hardy math team is a dream team.

Wheat, Goers, Bennett and Bax. What an outstanding team of dedicated, upbeat and skilled teachers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of complaints you hear on Hardy have to do with feeder school families/IB families feeling entitled to honors track. Instead, the equivalence IB = honors track is not endorsed by the teachers.

Be aware that the resistance to admit more students to the accelerated path comes from the teachers , not from the Principal. Hardy math teachers make clear all the time that they would accelerate students only when a student has the skills and drive to master the next level. Ms Bax explained in more than one occasion that class misplacement in math can adversely and permanently affect individuals confidence in their math abilities and cause fear, and closure towards the subject. And she does not want that for any of her students.

Guess Ms Pride caught wind of this thread.

Any plans to add sections to honors classes to control size?

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that all of these issues are also at other middle schools. Anyone that thinks that Deal is all happiness has not spent time there. My experience is that they had all the same problems, many kids behind, unmotivated, fights and drug use. We tried the afterschool program several years ago at Deal and my kid was pulling her hair out with boredom. If you need afterschool options get your kid a phone, figure out the bus system and explore some class options if you can afford it but realistically at this age they can handle getting home on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to the PPs for first-hand accounts of how things are going at Hardy. Attended an open house recently (we are in-boundary but not at a feeder school) and came away with mixed impressions. They are clearly doing some things right, but I was surprised and unhappy to hear that only 10% of current Hardy students are in "advanced" math. We're not talking prodigy-level math here, but just algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th--appropriate preparation for the advanced track at Wilson, SWW, or private schools. Ten percent seems startlingly low, but the administrators answering questions about it didn't seem concerned or appear to have a plan for raising the numbers.

Hardy does not spoon-feed students and does not spoon feed parents. Either the student is committed and dedicated, and thus admitted to honors classes, or the school won't listen to parental complaints and lobbying for having their own kids admitted to the advanced/accelerated path. Especially for math, the teachers carefully screen for drive, curiosity and engagement. Feeder school students start with an advantage as they have on average a stronger math background. But this might not be enough. The resulting 8th grade geometry class is composed of only those kids who perfectly mastered algebra and are ready to move on. This year, as in the past two years, one cannot but appreciate the diversity of this class, which reflects the math department philosophy to accelerate talented and dedicated students no matter which school they come from. If only 8% of the 8th grade cohort are ready to bear the accelerated program, then let it be.

If you, as a parent, and your student are ready for this hands-off approach, then Hardy is the best option around (and if this is the case, you won't need an after-school program). if you are not, then save yourself three years of anxiety and look elsewhere.

No one is asking for hand-holding or spoon-feeding. Finishing geometry in 8th grade is the level of math required for the advanced track at Wilson. If Hardy wants its graduates to succeed at the top academic levels at Wilson, it needs to prepare more of its kids accordingly. As it stands, most kids in advanced math at Wilson seem to come from Deal (according to my kid who is at Wilson), but not from Hardy or Oyster, the other Wilson feeder schools. That's a shame and a lost opportunity for those kids.

Finishing geometry in 8th is also the level required to succeed (absent other preparation and luck) on the Walls admissions test. It's the level at which most private schools and very strong suburban public schools expect many students to be. It's not a ridiculous request that a strong or improving middle school graduate >10% of children ready for this level of math in high school. That allows them to complete calculus BC and perhaps also an advanced math class or AP statistics before graduating, which in turn makes them competitive for selective colleges and strong STEM programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of complaints you hear on Hardy have to do with feeder school families/IB families feeling entitled to honors track. Instead, the equivalence IB = honors track is not endorsed by the teachers.

Be aware that the resistance to admit more students to the accelerated path comes from the teachers , not from the Principal. Hardy math teachers make clear all the time that they would accelerate students only when a student has the skills and drive to master the next level. Ms Bax explained in more than one occasion that class misplacement in math can adversely and permanently affect individuals confidence in their math abilities and cause fear, and closure towards the subject. And she does not want that for any of her students.

Really? You don't think many of Hardy's out-of-boundary students are ready and eager for the challenge of being on the advanced math track? I find it very hard to believe that the only complaints about this are from "entitled" in-boundary parents. Maybe you need to talk to some different parents?

Of course no one is entitled to be on the advanced math track. But a feeder middle school with only 10% of its graduates ready for the advanced math track at their by-right high school is doing something wrong. Any feeder school should aspire to graduate kids ready for the best that the next school has to offer. Not sure that Hardy admin really believes this or even has a plan to make progress in this area. Why sell kids short?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to the PPs for first-hand accounts of how things are going at Hardy. Attended an open house recently (we are in-boundary but not at a feeder school) and came away with mixed impressions. They are clearly doing some things right, but I was surprised and unhappy to hear that only 10% of current Hardy students are in "advanced" math. We're not talking prodigy-level math here, but just algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th--appropriate preparation for the advanced track at Wilson, SWW, or private schools. Ten percent seems startlingly low, but the administrators answering questions about it didn't seem concerned or appear to have a plan for raising the numbers.

Hardy does not spoon-feed students and does not spoon feed parents. Either the student is committed and dedicated, and thus admitted to honors classes, or the school won't listen to parental complaints and lobbying for having their own kids admitted to the advanced/accelerated path. Especially for math, the teachers carefully screen for drive, curiosity and engagement. Feeder school students start with an advantage as they have on average a stronger math background. But this might not be enough. The resulting 8th grade geometry class is composed of only those kids who perfectly mastered algebra and are ready to move on. This year, as in the past two years, one cannot but appreciate the diversity of this class, which reflects the math department philosophy to accelerate talented and dedicated students no matter which school they come from. If only 8% of the 8th grade cohort are ready to bear the accelerated program, then let it be.

If you, as a parent, and your student are ready for this hands-off approach, then Hardy is the best option around (and if this is the case, you won't need an after-school program). if you are not, then save yourself three years of anxiety and look elsewhere.

No one is asking for hand-holding or spoon-feeding. Finishing geometry in 8th grade is the level of math required for the advanced track at Wilson. If Hardy wants its graduates to succeed at the top academic levels at Wilson, it needs to prepare more of its kids accordingly. As it stands, most kids in advanced math at Wilson seem to come from Deal (according to my kid who is at Wilson), but not from Hardy or Oyster, the other Wilson feeder schools. That's a shame and a lost opportunity for those kids.

Finishing geometry in 8th is also the level required to succeed (absent other preparation and luck) on the Walls admissions test. It's the level at which most private schools and very strong suburban public schools expect many students to be. It's not a ridiculous request that a strong or improving middle school graduate >10% of children ready for this level of math in high school. That allows them to complete calculus BC and perhaps also an advanced math class or AP statistics before graduating, which in turn makes them competitive for selective colleges and strong STEM programs.

Deal is many times bigger than the other feeders. Most Wilson kids come from Deal, so of course most of the advanced math students will come from Deal. That says nothing about the quality of Hardy's math program.

[Anonymous]

True, all of Hardy is smaller than a single grade at Deal. 10% of a Deal grade would fill two full classrooms. So of course most of the kids are from Deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:True, all of Hardy is smaller than a single grade at Deal. 10% of a Deal grade would fill two full classrooms. So of course most of the kids are from Deal.

Obviously. But if the numbers given by Hardy are accurate, only 10% of the kids at Hardy are on the advanced math track. Yet 31% scored a 4 or 5 on the PARCC tests. Why are only a third of those kids in advanced math? Do the other two-thirds of those kids need some focused extra help? More motivation? A different teaching approach? A different internal assessment approach?

Kids who aren't in advanced math as they leave middle school may find doors closed to them. Although I clearly had math aptitude, I went to a rural middle/high school in the south, where advanced math just wasn't an option. I spent years trying to catch up to my peers who had better pre-college opportunities. I'm looking for a better start for my kids and for all of our kids.

A school wanting to position itself as one of the top middle schools in the city should not be content to have 90% of its kids in regular or below-grade math.
I'd like to know that Hardy thinks this is an issue and has a plan to move forward. It's a lost opportunity for ALL Hardy students, regardless of whether they are out-of-boundary, from a feeder school, or in-boundary.

[Anonymous]

If there are 30-35 kids in geometry and 130ish kids in 8th grade, that's more than 20 percent of those kids. (basic math) The number of kids tracking with advanced math are also going up as the IB and feeder enrollment is going up proportionately. So, this year's 6th, which is more than 30% IB or feeder would logically start pushing that higher. But YES darn straight that parents from the feeders are going to expect the school will prepare these kids to be and stay on college track level math and other subjects. And Principal Pride does talk about trying to push all kids to a higher level. This would argue for better solutions for helping kids bridge that gap during MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of complaints you hear on Hardy have to do with feeder school families/IB families feeling entitled to honors track. Instead, the equivalence IB = honors track is not endorsed by the teachers.

Be aware that the resistance to admit more students to the accelerated path comes from the teachers , not from the Principal. Hardy math teachers make clear all the time that they would accelerate students only when a student has the skills and drive to master the next level. Ms Bax explained in more than one occasion that class misplacement in math can adversely and permanently affect individuals confidence in their math abilities and cause fear, and closure towards the subject. And she does not want that for any of her students.

Really? You don't think many of Hardy's out-of-boundary students are ready and eager for the challenge of being on the advanced math track? I find it very hard to believe that the only complaints about this are from "entitled" in-boundary parents. Maybe you need to talk to some different parents?

Of course no one is entitled to be on the advanced math track. But a feeder middle school with only 10% of its graduates ready for the advanced math track at their by-right high school is doing something wrong. Any feeder school should aspire to graduate kids ready for the best that the next school has to offer. Not sure that Hardy admin really believes this or even has a plan to make progress in this area. Why sell kids short?


Deal has 20% students ending in geometry in 8th grade (versus the 10% at Hardy). The difference between Hardy and Deal is consistent with the difference in the demographics of their current 8th graders. As the demographics change, and the newer cohorts move up to 8th grade, the percentages of the two schools will converge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If there are 30-35 kids in geometry and 130ish kids in 8th grade, that's more than 20 percent of those kids. (basic math) The number of kids tracking with advanced math are also going up as the IB and feeder enrollment is going up proportionately. So, this year's 6th, which is more than 30% IB or feeder would logically start pushing that higher. But YES darn straight that parents from the feeders are going to expect the school will prepare these kids to be and stay on college track level math and other subjects. And Principal Pride does talk about trying to push all kids to a higher level. This would argue for better solutions for helping kids bridge that gap during MS.

Algebra in 8th grade is college track. In order to master pre-algebra in 5 months instead of 10 (and move to algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th), students need to have the ability and drive to do so. And that's not for everybody. Being IB , is not a necessary or sufficient condition for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there are 30-35 kids in geometry and 130ish kids in 8th grade, that's more than 20 percent of those kids. (basic math) The number of kids tracking with advanced math are also going up as the IB and feeder enrollment is going up proportionately. So, this year's 6th, which is more than 30% IB or feeder would logically start pushing that higher. But YES darn straight that parents from the feeders are going to expect the school will prepare these kids to be and stay on college track level math and other subjects. And Principal Pride does talk about trying to push all kids to a higher level. This would argue for better solutions for helping kids bridge that gap during MS.

Algebra in 8th grade is college track. In order to master pre-algebra in 5 months instead of 10 (and move to algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th), students need to have the ability and drive to do so. And that's not for everybody. Being IB , is not a necessary or sufficient condition for that.

Having gone to a suburban DC MS myself -- back in my day and now -- those kids are pushed and expected to be on a college track for math. I have personal experience of being a little 'pushed' in math myself - and ending up acing AP Calc. Very many of those kids need the extrinsic motivation of their parents and 'normalized' expectations - vs. expecting all capable kids to be intrinsically so motivated. There should not be low expectations for either the IB or OOB kids - they should be focusing on creating opportunities for everyone - while not all will end up in 8th geo - it should be much more seen as a normal path like it is for Deal and sub-urban world. What's clear is that this was not pushed as the 'new normal' until there have been higher expectations from the incoming families. This is just the facts of what has happened. They should be helping to pave a path for future success for all kids as much as possible.

[Anonymous]

Sheesh, some of the negative talk on this thread about troublemakers and fights and distracted teachers is really troublesome. In fact, in the last couple of years, this is by far the most negative thread about Hardy that I've seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If there are 30-35 kids in geometry and 130ish kids in 8th grade, that's more than 20 percent of those kids. (basic math) The number of kids tracking with advanced math are also going up as the IB and feeder enrollment is going up proportionately. So, this year's 6th, which is more than 30% IB or feeder would logically start pushing that higher. But YES darn straight that parents from the feeders are going to expect the school will prepare these kids to be and stay on college track level math and other subjects. And Principal Pride does talk about trying to push all kids to a higher level. This would argue for better solutions for helping kids bridge that gap during MS.

Algebra in 8th grade is college track. In order to master pre-algebra in 5 months instead of 10 (and move to algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th), students need to have the ability and drive to do so. And that's not for everybody. Being IB , is not a necessary or sufficient condition for that.

Kids at other schools start pre algebra in the fall of 6th grade. Hardy does not follow the standard model and waits until the spring. Why does Hardy only give 6th graders 5 mos to master pre-algebra instead of the 10 mos kids get at other schools?