Who decides which children live and which ones die?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the person who decides is the person who decides to drive and text or drunk drive.

OP here. I guess my point is - why was it THAT child on that waterslide, vs. some other child on the same day or a different day. Same with the boy at Disney. Why THAT boy that day? Even with drunk driving, which car do they hit? Its all so random. When I book a flight, I (fleetingly) think - will a plane crash this day? If so, will it be this one or that? The one time I was in a minor car accident, I was plagued with knowing that I almost drove a different route. Or what if I left 5 minutes earlier? or later?

In Disney, the movie had just ended so the family was probably about to head up anyway. AND they were leaving the next morning! What if they went to bed 5 minutes sooner? Or planned their trip a different week? I just can't even imagine...

OP, the thoughts that you are describing are ones that every parent has. It's just a reality of the fact that you have given life to a person who is growing up in front of your eyes, and you are realizing that you cannot protect him/ her forever. This is all perfectly normal. But I will caution you that an obsession with this type of thinking is exactly one of the ways that "evil," if you will, tries to continually attack us.

God speaks very clearly in the Bible about worries, fears and anxiety. As one example, Paul writes

“Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” Philippians 4:6-7

Jesus also talks about this in the Sermon on the Mount.

I think it is our responsibility as believers to take hold of this kind of thinking, before it consumes and eventually destroys us. All of these scenarios you described are true. What if these people left earlier, what if that child arrived sooner -- on and on -- you can make yourself crazy about it. What if you had gone to a different grocery store yesterday, or driven route A instead of route B on your way to work? Who knows what differently might have happened. The point is, you cannot consume yourself with this kind of thinking. As a Christian, you take heart that God is in control and is with us through good and bad. That is why God also tells us to fill our minds with "good thoughts" and beautiful things -- not to obsess over this kind of thinking, which is the work of evil trying to draw you away from Christ.

He may be "with us" but what good is he if he only protects us part of the time -- some would say randomly. And what about people who don't even believe in God but seem to lead charmed lives? Is God looking after them better than those who believe in him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all about many of these thoughts of peace and grace until I stop and consider child abuse. The thought of someone killing or allowing the killing of his or her own child (usually young and usually in a horrific circumstance) doesn't bring me closer to God. I don't sit back and think that the poor baby died a painful, tortuous death for a reason.

What is God trying to show those parents?

At least I take comfort that Caleb and the Disney boy were loved. Those babies that know nothing but pain from the moment they're born make me wonder if anything out there is really trying to save us.

PP, why do you assume that there is a reason, or at least a good enough reason that you will accept or understand?

The situations you describe are evil and incomprehensible. I believe that they are perpetrated/ allowed to happen by Satan himself. If the Holy Spirit can be alive in followers of Christ, doesn't it make sense that evil is alive in the form of persons literally inhabited by evil, aka Satan?

God hates this even more than you do.

But apparently can't do anything to stop it. So pray as you might, Satan might get a grip on your precious child. Is that what you're saying? Seems easier and more sensible to just cut out the notions of a sometimes helpless God and an always evil Satan lurking around seeking to harm your child.

[Anonymous]

As a Calvinist, I believe God does everything for a reason. Sometimes it's not for us to know why he does what he does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the person who decides is the person who decides to drive and text or drunk drive.

OP here. I guess my point is - why was it THAT child on that waterslide, vs. some other child on the same day or a different day. Same with the boy at Disney. Why THAT boy that day? Even with drunk driving, which car do they hit? Its all so random. When I book a flight, I (fleetingly) think - will a plane crash this day? If so, will it be this one or that? The one time I was in a minor car accident, I was plagued with knowing that I almost drove a different route. Or what if I left 5 minutes earlier? or later?

In Disney, the movie had just ended so the family was probably about to head up anyway. AND they were leaving the next morning! What if they went to bed 5 minutes sooner? Or planned their trip a different week? I just can't even imagine...

OP, the thoughts that you are describing are ones that every parent has. It's just a reality of the fact that you have given life to a person who is growing up in front of your eyes, and you are realizing that you cannot protect him/ her forever. This is all perfectly normal. But I will caution you that an obsession with this type of thinking is exactly one of the ways that "evil," if you will, tries to continually attack us.

God speaks very clearly in the Bible about worries, fears and anxiety. As one example, Paul writes

“Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” Philippians 4:6-7

Jesus also talks about this in the Sermon on the Mount.

I think it is our responsibility as believers to take hold of this kind of thinking, before it consumes and eventually destroys us. All of these scenarios you described are true. What if these people left earlier, what if that child arrived sooner -- on and on -- you can make yourself crazy about it. What if you had gone to a different grocery store yesterday, or driven route A instead of route B on your way to work? Who knows what differently might have happened. The point is, you cannot consume yourself with this kind of thinking. As a Christian, you take heart that God is in control and is with us through good and bad. That is why God also tells us to fill our minds with "good thoughts" and beautiful things -- not to obsess over this kind of thinking, which is the work of evil trying to draw you away from Christ.

He may be "with us" but what good is he if he only protects us part of the time -- some would say randomly. And what about people who don't even believe in God but seem to lead charmed lives? Is God looking after them better than those who believe in him?

Well, this is an easy one! I've lived long enough to know that "seem to" is your operative phrase here. You have no idea, truly, what is going on with "those people" and what kinds of issues/ problems, etc. they are struggling with. The Facebook world that we live in does a good job of masking most people's inner lives.

But, in my opinion at least, you are looking at the role of God our Father in a too slanted view. It is not as though we are children, being led around and constantly "protected" by God, as you would take care of your toddler. In God's love, He has given us free choice and with that free choice has come a lot of so-called freedom. With that freedom comes consequences of our actions. If you decide to drink and drive, or even text and drive, and ram into the car in front of you, is it fair to say that God wasn't "protecting" you? Similarly, with the boy on the water slide - it may turn out that someone was negligent in an inspection or in doing their job to keep the ride safe. Unfortunately, there are consequences to that person's failure.

You are going to die, PP. Your kids are going to die. That is one thing I can promise you. I do believe that there are times and conditions in which God absolutely does protect us and save us from our accidents or folly and who is to say why that happens sometimes and not others. That is a bigger question than any of us can answer. But to think that God's only role is to "protect you" in life is foolish. You are missing the much bigger picture.

[Anonymous]

If God is omnipotent, then God is responsible. By definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all about many of these thoughts of peace and grace until I stop and consider child abuse. The thought of someone killing or allowing the killing of his or her own child (usually young and usually in a horrific circumstance) doesn't bring me closer to God. I don't sit back and think that the poor baby died a painful, tortuous death for a reason.

What is God trying to show those parents?

At least I take comfort that Caleb and the Disney boy were loved. Those babies that know nothing but pain from the moment they're born make me wonder if anything out there is really trying to save us.

PP, why do you assume that there is a reason, or at least a good enough reason that you will accept or understand?

The situations you describe are evil and incomprehensible. I believe that they are perpetrated/ allowed to happen by Satan himself. If the Holy Spirit can be alive in followers of Christ, doesn't it make sense that evil is alive in the form of persons literally inhabited by evil, aka Satan?

God hates this even more than you do.

But apparently can't do anything to stop it. So pray as you might, Satan might get a grip on your precious child. Is that what you're saying? Seems easier and more sensible to just cut out the notions of a sometimes helpless God and an always evil Satan lurking around seeking to harm your child.

Well, you can (pretend to) "cut it out" all you want to, but that doesn't change the fact that both actually exist!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all about many of these thoughts of peace and grace until I stop and consider child abuse. The thought of someone killing or allowing the killing of his or her own child (usually young and usually in a horrific circumstance) doesn't bring me closer to God. I don't sit back and think that the poor baby died a painful, tortuous death for a reason.

What is God trying to show those parents?

At least I take comfort that Caleb and the Disney boy were loved. Those babies that know nothing but pain from the moment they're born make me wonder if anything out there is really trying to save us.

PP, why do you assume that there is a reason, or at least a good enough reason that you will accept or understand?

The situations you describe are evil and incomprehensible. I believe that they are perpetrated/ allowed to happen by Satan himself. If the Holy Spirit can be alive in followers of Christ, doesn't it make sense that evil is alive in the form of persons literally inhabited by evil, aka Satan?

God hates this even more than you do.

But apparently can't do anything to stop it. So pray as you might, Satan might get a grip on your precious child. Is that what you're saying? Seems easier and more sensible to just cut out the notions of a sometimes helpless God and an always evil Satan lurking around seeking to harm your child.

Yes, of course. This happens all the time. What about kids who grow up and turn to drugs or prostitution or other sinful lifestyles? I would bet this occurs in many families, despite the fact that they had parents who prayed for God's protection on them. We are each individually accountable to God, however.

[Anonymous]

I've had what objectively could be called a rough life with a lot of trauma and loss. I really don't ask why God let things happen to me. I'm usually just stunned by the wonderful people he has sent to help me get through it all. All except a few family members came in mysterious ways. More than once, I have been saved by someone who said "I wasn't supposed to work today, but..." Or "I don't know why I drove this way."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've had what objectively could be called a rough life with a lot of trauma and loss. I really don't ask why God let things happen to me. I'm usually just stunned by the wonderful people he has sent to help me get through it all. All except a few family members came in mysterious ways. More than once, I have been saved by someone who said "I wasn't supposed to work today, but..." Or "I don't know why I drove this way."

God tends to get the credit for the good things that happen and not the bad things.

God's specialty is doing good things. He's not so skilled at keeping bad things from happening. But he's right there to give you strength afterwards!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all about many of these thoughts of peace and grace until I stop and consider child abuse. The thought of someone killing or allowing the killing of his or her own child (usually young and usually in a horrific circumstance) doesn't bring me closer to God. I don't sit back and think that the poor baby died a painful, tortuous death for a reason.

What is God trying to show those parents?

At least I take comfort that Caleb and the Disney boy were loved. Those babies that know nothing but pain from the moment they're born make me wonder if anything out there is really trying to save us.

PP, why do you assume that there is a reason, or at least a good enough reason that you will accept or understand?

The situations you describe are evil and incomprehensible. I believe that they are perpetrated/ allowed to happen by Satan himself. If the Holy Spirit can be alive in followers of Christ, doesn't it make sense that evil is alive in the form of persons literally inhabited by evil, aka Satan?

God hates this even more than you do.

But apparently can't do anything to stop it. So pray as you might, Satan might get a grip on your precious child. Is that what you're saying? Seems easier and more sensible to just cut out the notions of a sometimes helpless God and an always evil Satan lurking around seeking to harm your child.

Well, you can (pretend to) "cut it out" all you want to, but that doesn't change the fact that both actually exist!

Have you seen God and the Devil? or have you deduced their prescence, based on if something good or bad happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all about many of these thoughts of peace and grace until I stop and consider child abuse. The thought of someone killing or allowing the killing of his or her own child (usually young and usually in a horrific circumstance) doesn't bring me closer to God. I don't sit back and think that the poor baby died a painful, tortuous death for a reason.

What is God trying to show those parents?

At least I take comfort that Caleb and the Disney boy were loved. Those babies that know nothing but pain from the moment they're born make me wonder if anything out there is really trying to save us.

PP, why do you assume that there is a reason, or at least a good enough reason that you will accept or understand?

The situations you describe are evil and incomprehensible. I believe that they are perpetrated/ allowed to happen by Satan himself. If the Holy Spirit can be alive in followers of Christ, doesn't it make sense that evil is alive in the form of persons literally inhabited by evil, aka Satan?

God hates this even more than you do.

But apparently can't do anything to stop it. So pray as you might, Satan might get a grip on your precious child. Is that what you're saying? Seems easier and more sensible to just cut out the notions of a sometimes helpless God and an always evil Satan lurking around seeking to harm your child.

Yes, of course. This happens all the time. What about kids who grow up and turn to drugs or prostitution or other sinful lifestyles? I would bet this occurs in many families, despite the fact that they had parents who prayed for God's protection on them. We are each individually accountable to God, however.

Does God punish people who don't worship him because their kids didn't turn out well?

[Anonymous]

There's no god. We are a type of animal, and we sometimes die from random accidents. It's super, super sad when it's an innocent child that dies.

It does matter when someone dies, and it can make positive change in the world -- laws get toughened up, wars end, people are more careful with their health and safety and that of their children.



"Nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everybody's gonna die. Come watch TV?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all about many of these thoughts of peace and grace until I stop and consider child abuse. The thought of someone killing or allowing the killing of his or her own child (usually young and usually in a horrific circumstance) doesn't bring me closer to God. I don't sit back and think that the poor baby died a painful, tortuous death for a reason.

What is God trying to show those parents?

At least I take comfort that Caleb and the Disney boy were loved. Those babies that know nothing but pain from the moment they're born make me wonder if anything out there is really trying to save us.

PP, why do you assume that there is a reason, or at least a good enough reason that you will accept or understand?

The situations you describe are evil and incomprehensible. I believe that they are perpetrated/ allowed to happen by Satan himself. If the Holy Spirit can be alive in followers of Christ, doesn't it make sense that evil is alive in the form of persons literally inhabited by evil, aka Satan?

God hates this even more than you do.

But apparently can't do anything to stop it. So pray as you might, Satan might get a grip on your precious child. Is that what you're saying? Seems easier and more sensible to just cut out the notions of a sometimes helpless God and an always evil Satan lurking around seeking to harm your child.

Well, you can (pretend to) "cut it out" all you want to, but that doesn't change the fact that both actually exist!

Have you seen God and the Devil? or have you deduced their prescence, based on if something good or bad happens.

I see both in action, every single day. You do too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all about many of these thoughts of peace and grace until I stop and consider child abuse. The thought of someone killing or allowing the killing of his or her own child (usually young and usually in a horrific circumstance) doesn't bring me closer to God. I don't sit back and think that the poor baby died a painful, tortuous death for a reason.

What is God trying to show those parents?

At least I take comfort that Caleb and the Disney boy were loved. Those babies that know nothing but pain from the moment they're born make me wonder if anything out there is really trying to save us.

PP, why do you assume that there is a reason, or at least a good enough reason that you will accept or understand?

The situations you describe are evil and incomprehensible. I believe that they are perpetrated/ allowed to happen by Satan himself. If the Holy Spirit can be alive in followers of Christ, doesn't it make sense that evil is alive in the form of persons literally inhabited by evil, aka Satan?

God hates this even more than you do.

But apparently can't do anything to stop it. So pray as you might, Satan might get a grip on your precious child. Is that what you're saying? Seems easier and more sensible to just cut out the notions of a sometimes helpless God and an always evil Satan lurking around seeking to harm your child.

Yes, of course. This happens all the time. What about kids who grow up and turn to drugs or prostitution or other sinful lifestyles? I would bet this occurs in many families, despite the fact that they had parents who prayed for God's protection on them. We are each individually accountable to God, however.

Does God punish people who don't worship him because their kids didn't turn out well?

I'm not sure if I'm responding to the same poster in all of these posts, but someone here seems obsessed with the idea of "punishments" and "reward/ abandonment" from God, as if they are literally keeping score.

No, God does not "punish" these people, IMO. These kids grow up to make their own decisions, for which they are responsible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's no god. We are a type of animal, and we sometimes die from random accidents. It's super, super sad when it's an innocent child that dies.

It does matter when someone dies, and it can make positive change in the world -- laws get toughened up, wars end, people are more careful with their health and safety and that of their children.



"Nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everybody's gonna die. Come watch TV?"

Typical dumb materialist