APS Superintendent High School Overcrowding Plan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in Bluemont. DS is 8. We are zoned for W-L. What are the chances that we will be rezonednl for Wakefield? Need to know whether to start saving for private school.

Please start saving, because I don't want my kids going to school with yours if they have an attitude like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How real are these projected numbers? I know FCPS can be wildly wrong when predicting short-term and long-term numbers. Is APS really going to have that many additional high school students in just a couple years?

If those are real, reliable numbers, then just build the fourth high school. Expensive, yes, but needed.

Where?

Turn the Fort Scott Park site into a high school. It could even be called Fort Scott HS.

I don't think parents appreciate the degree of community pushback there would be if APS tried to get the land needed to build another high school. MAYBE they could use the Henry/Career Center/Fenwick site, although the costs would prevent them from building anything else, and there are many needs, not just HS. Everything else they have built has been on land APS already owned -- or land that everyone probably thought they already owned (the TJ parking lot) -- and its still been a battle every time over parking, traffic, fields, lighting, historical preservation, green space, "open vistas" (I'm not kidding)....not to mention $$. There is no end of things the community can come up with to delay or prevent a project.

Most people in Arlington -- 85% -- don't have kids in the schools. The school board's CIP may be the most realistic in terms of what is politically feasible--they just aren't going to be able to go out and get the majority of the voters on board with converting major swaths of parkland into new schools. Maybe if the Democratic leadership or the county board led the way they could get farther along, but we didn't elect 2 new county board members who are going to carry the water for the schools, so that opportunity is gone. The proposed CIP is probably what we are going to have to live with, unless people want to start agitating the hell out of the county board about the VA hospital land parcel over on Carlin Springs--that's a neutral piece of land (at least from a parks/schools perspective) and we don't see something that big come along very often.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should not build any actual buildings for schools. They need to start buying and re purposing office building space. There is enough office space vacancy that is not going to be filled by businesses that could be used.

There are lots of vacant office buldings. Would buying/leasing one and retrofitting it be more cost-effective than buying the land and building? If so, then they should get started right away on that.

During the SAWG process, it became apparent that the cost of converting office building space to classrooms is prohibitive, unless we found an unusual deal, like a building in foreclosure.

It could be done. They would just have to not worry quite as much about converting the spaces. At a high school level, this would be far easier to accomplish. An office building wouldn't even need that much converting to accommodate classrooms. In terms of elementary school, yes, I could see that needing more retrofitting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should not build any actual buildings for schools. They need to start buying and re purposing office building space. There is enough office space vacancy that is not going to be filled by businesses that could be used.

There are lots of vacant office buldings. Would buying/leasing one and retrofitting it be more cost-effective than buying the land and building? If so, then they should get started right away on that.

During the SAWG process, it became apparent that the cost of converting office building space to classrooms is prohibitive, unless we found an unusual deal, like a building in foreclosure.

It could be done. They would just have to not worry quite as much about converting the spaces. At a high school level, this would be far easier to accomplish. An office building wouldn't even need that much converting to accommodate classrooms. In terms of elementary school, yes, I could see that needing more retrofitting.

Sorry, I wasn't more clear. It's not the cost of retrofitting the space, but the cost of the building itself that makes it unfeasible. Unless there is a foreclosure on a building, it would cost too much to buy an office building anywhere in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

There was talk by APS facilities people about using the Ed Center or the Buck property along 66 and situated between ASFS and W-L as land to build a "9th grade academy." While this is not at the top of my list as a solution for high school overcrowding, it is better than having the high schools operate in multiple shifts. How does that even work? Two entire sets of teachers, course offerings and staff? Two of every sports teams and clubs? Two marching bands? And where will the soccer team or band or debate team practice if the space is being utilized by the other school within the school? Will a student be assigned a shift based on their extra-curricular activities? Or will the student just be screwed? "Yes, we know you'd like to participate in Model U.N. but only the students who go to school from 6 am to 1 pm can do Model U.N. Because you were assigned the 2 pm to 9 pm shift, you are not eligible."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How real are these projected numbers? I know FCPS can be wildly wrong when predicting short-term and long-term numbers. Is APS really going to have that many additional high school students in just a couple years?

If those are real, reliable numbers, then just build the fourth high school. Expensive, yes, but needed.

Where?

Turn the Fort Scott Park site into a high school. It could even be called Fort Scott HS.

I don't think parents appreciate the degree of community pushback there would be if APS tried to get the land needed to build another high school. MAYBE they could use the Henry/Career Center/Fenwick site, although the costs would prevent them from building anything else, and there are many needs, not just HS. Everything else they have built has been on land APS already owned -- or land that everyone probably thought they already owned (the TJ parking lot) -- and its still been a battle every time over parking, traffic, fields, lighting, historical preservation, green space, "open vistas" (I'm not kidding)....not to mention $$. There is no end of things the community can come up with to delay or prevent a project.

Most people in Arlington -- 85% -- don't have kids in the schools. The school board's CIP may be the most realistic in terms of what is politically feasible--they just aren't going to be able to go out and get the majority of the voters on board with converting major swaths of parkland into new schools. Maybe if the Democratic leadership or the county board led the way they could get farther along, but we didn't elect 2 new county board members who are going to carry the water for the schools, so that opportunity is gone. The proposed CIP is probably what we are going to have to live with, unless people want to start agitating the hell out of the county board about the VA hospital land parcel over on Carlin Springs--that's a neutral piece of land (at least from a parks/schools perspective) and we don't see something that big come along very often.

This. Start making noise now, because that community is already pushing back on using that space for anything other than a park. It's unlikely we'll get another parcel of land like this anytime in the near future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should not build any actual buildings for schools. They need to start buying and re purposing office building space. There is enough office space vacancy that is not going to be filled by businesses that could be used.

There are lots of vacant office buldings. Would buying/leasing one and retrofitting it be more cost-effective than buying the land and building? If so, then they should get started right away on that.

During the SAWG process, it became apparent that the cost of converting office building space to classrooms is prohibitive, unless we found an unusual deal, like a building in foreclosure.

It could be done. They would just have to not worry quite as much about converting the spaces. At a high school level, this would be far easier to accomplish. An office building wouldn't even need that much converting to accommodate classrooms. In terms of elementary school, yes, I could see that needing more retrofitting.

Sorry, I wasn't more clear. It's not the cost of retrofitting the space, but the cost of the building itself that makes it unfeasible. Unless there is a foreclosure on a building, it would cost too much to buy an office building anywhere in Arlington.

\

And you can't use capital funds to lease space, so it would have to come out of operating budget. Which means either a tax increase, or cuts in the annual school budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This. Start making noise now, because that community is already pushing back on using that space for anything other than a park. It's unlikely we'll get another parcel of land like this anytime in the near future.

YES x 1,00,000

Far too often, people don't say anything until it's too late and then are mad that their opinions weren't heard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. Start making noise now, because that community is already pushing back on using that space for anything other than a park. It's unlikely we'll get another parcel of land like this anytime in the near future.

YES x 1,00,000

Far too often, people don't say anything until it's too late and then are mad that their opinions weren't heard.

Please provide additional information. Who owns it now? Does APS or the county plan on purchasing it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. Start making noise now, because that community is already pushing back on using that space for anything other than a park. It's unlikely we'll get another parcel of land like this anytime in the near future.

YES x 1,00,000

Far too often, people don't say anything until it's too late and then are mad that their opinions weren't heard.

Please provide additional information. Who owns it now? Does APS or the county plan on purchasing it?

http://projects.arlingtonva.us/types/county-facilities/county-considering-selling-land-to-virginia-hospital-center-for-expansion/

County hearings on the next county CIP start later this month.

[Anonymous]

I have been to a few of these meetings, and I do not understand the concept behind Arlington Tech. I asked point blank at a meeting whether it was Vo-Tech or STEM (like TJ in FC) and the lady presenting gave the flakiest answer. She seriously said, "Oh!! It can be anything we dream it to be!!!" and that was her entire answer (in a Mary Poppins voice). Anyway, it seems like you could attract at least an HB-size population to an Arlington STEM high school modeled after TJ. You could retrofit an office building in Crystal City and offer a wide range of robotics and science clubs to offset a smaller sports program. There are enough defense contractors over there that you could probably also draw on the private sector to provide internships, etc.

My bigger issue though (as someone who has actually attended meetings) is that I can't tell how much difference parent opinions are really going to make. It seems like the County has its ideas and it will do whatever it wants. Until people start leaving the County due to the school situation and it impacts tax revenue, I just don't think they care that much what parents think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been to a few of these meetings, and I do not understand the concept behind Arlington Tech. I asked point blank at a meeting whether it was Vo-Tech or STEM (like TJ in FC) and the lady presenting gave the flakiest answer. She seriously said, "Oh!! It can be anything we dream it to be!!!" and that was her entire answer (in a Mary Poppins voice). Anyway, it seems like you could attract at least an HB-size population to an Arlington STEM high school modeled after TJ. You could retrofit an office building in Crystal City and offer a wide range of robotics and science clubs to offset a smaller sports program. There are enough defense contractors over there that you could probably also draw on the private sector to provide internships, etc.

My bigger issue though (as someone who has actually attended meetings) is that I can't tell how much difference parent opinions are really going to make. It seems like the County has its ideas and it will do whatever it wants. Until people start leaving the County due to the school situation and it impacts tax revenue, I just don't think they care that much what parents think.

Um, schoolkids are a net drain on the county. Everyone would be THRILLED if some families moved out of the county, and it probably would not affect real estate values at all, and definitely would not affect tax revenue. Most tax revenue in Arlington is NOT from single family homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been to a few of these meetings, and I do not understand the concept behind Arlington Tech. I asked point blank at a meeting whether it was Vo-Tech or STEM (like TJ in FC) and the lady presenting gave the flakiest answer. She seriously said, "Oh!! It can be anything we dream it to be!!!" and that was her entire answer (in a Mary Poppins voice). Anyway, it seems like you could attract at least an HB-size population to an Arlington STEM high school modeled after TJ. You could retrofit an office building in Crystal City and offer a wide range of robotics and science clubs to offset a smaller sports program. There are enough defense contractors over there that you could probably also draw on the private sector to provide internships, etc.

My bigger issue though (as someone who has actually attended meetings) is that I can't tell how much difference parent opinions are really going to make. It seems like the County has its ideas and it will do whatever it wants. Until people start leaving the County due to the school situation and it impacts tax revenue, I just don't think they care that much what parents think.

Um, schoolkids are a net drain on the county. Everyone would be THRILLED if some families moved out of the county, and it probably would not affect real estate values at all, and definitely would not affect tax revenue. Most tax revenue in Arlington is NOT from single family homes.

That's kind of flippant. It's not going to be the low-income families in South Arlington who bail, but instead some of the higher income families who aren't prepared to play chicken with APS and guess where or when their kids are attending middle or high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been to a few of these meetings, and I do not understand the concept behind Arlington Tech. I asked point blank at a meeting whether it was Vo-Tech or STEM (like TJ in FC) and the lady presenting gave the flakiest answer. She seriously said, "Oh!! It can be anything we dream it to be!!!" and that was her entire answer (in a Mary Poppins voice). Anyway, it seems like you could attract at least an HB-size population to an Arlington STEM high school modeled after TJ. You could retrofit an office building in Crystal City and offer a wide range of robotics and science clubs to offset a smaller sports program. There are enough defense contractors over there that you could probably also draw on the private sector to provide internships, etc.

My bigger issue though (as someone who has actually attended meetings) is that I can't tell how much difference parent opinions are really going to make. It seems like the County has its ideas and it will do whatever it wants. Until people start leaving the County due to the school situation and it impacts tax revenue, I just don't think they care that much what parents think.

Um, schoolkids are a net drain on the county. Everyone's would be THRILLED if some families moved out of the county, and it probably would not affect real estate values at all, and definitely would not affect tax revenue. Most tax revenue in Arlington is NOT from single family homes.


Nevertheless, excellent public schools are a big draw for residents and businesses alike and a big reason why people buy real estate in the county regardless of whether they have children. No one wins if the schools are overcrowded and 2,775 high school students are in trailers or aren't in school until 3 when the second shift starts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been to a few of these meetings, and I do not understand the concept behind Arlington Tech. I asked point blank at a meeting whether it was Vo-Tech or STEM (like TJ in FC) and the lady presenting gave the flakiest answer. She seriously said, "Oh!! It can be anything we dream it to be!!!" and that was her entire answer (in a Mary Poppins voice). Anyway, it seems like you could attract at least an HB-size population to an Arlington STEM high school modeled after TJ. You could retrofit an office building in Crystal City and offer a wide range of robotics and science clubs to offset a smaller sports program. There are enough defense contractors over there that you could probably also draw on the private sector to provide internships, etc.

My bigger issue though (as someone who has actually attended meetings) is that I can't tell how much difference parent opinions are really going to make. It seems like the County has its ideas and it will do whatever it wants. Until people start leaving the County due to the school situation and it impacts tax revenue, I just don't think they care that much what parents think.

Um, schoolkids are a net drain on the county. Everyone would be THRILLED if some families moved out of the county, and it probably would not affect real estate values at all, and definitely would not affect tax revenue. Most tax revenue in Arlington is NOT from single family homes.

That's kind of flippant. It's not going to be the low-income families in South Arlington who bail, but instead some of the higher income families who aren't prepared to play chicken with APS and guess where or when their kids are attending middle or high school.

That's already happening. My DD is in 6th grade at Swanson. The families of three of her good friends are pulling out of APS next year and going private. They don't want their 7th grader in a trailer all year and see no solution in sight for either their older kid starting high school or their younger kids still in elementary school.