Why do so many jobs require masters degrees in this area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. I'm not really familiar with your field and industry and had to look up the certifications you mentioned having.

Originally when you mentioned economies, I thought you might've been in economics, where I might be able to see a higher level degree being a requirement. I considered studying economics and that was one of the reasons why I decided against it.

Assuming that this is the same CFA you mentioned having:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_Financial_Analyst

It sounds pretty impressive, the link above says it has a low pass rate, and I'd find it hard to believe an employer would overlook this certification if you applied.

So as mentioned in a couple of other posts, if you see a job that you're interested in, definitely apply.

What type of positions are you applying for? ie are they kind of the same with what you're doing now but with a different scope and more pay? Or are you trying to get into management?

If you're trying to get into management, it might be hard for employers to see that you have any experience or skills being a successful manager. You might be very good in the knowledge and technical aspects of the position.

So I think a lack of masters degree might hold you back from a managerial position. Although it's still obtainable without one, just might take a lot of smaller steps. ie first go to positions where you can lead smaller groups and processes.

But for other positions, you should definitely still apply for it anyways and sell your experience, knowledge and certifications. You could even try any manager positions if that's what you're shooting for. Sometimes it's just finding the right opportunity or have someone give you the chance.

I think we all agree that this degree creep is kind of ridiculous and doesn't make sense on how higher degrees are used as baselines for requirements for some jobs.

Yes, I am a CFA and hold a few other financial designations (CPA etc). I work in finance in a consulting role. IMO these credentials don't entitle me to anything as I know plenty of CFA, CPAs and other credential holders who are idiots. But at least it signals that I have some level of expertise in my field.

Yes, the issue is getting into managerial positions. More like upper/executive management. I do have somewhat of a technical background, but I am really more of a generalist.

I agree with taking smaller steps. So far, I have tried to stay on high profile assignments. Its more difficult now that management has changed quite a bit and I don't know the new players that well. These new managers are the ones who are changing the criteria to only interview masters recipients for upper management positions. Right now, I am just trying to prove myself to the new management team who knows I'm good based on my revenue #s and reputation with clients, but don't know me, and so far, won't make an exception on the degree thing to allow me an interview. Meanwhile, my colleague who has 5 years less experience than me, but has an MBA from Columbia (great school BTW) brings in significantly less revenue, and has actually had work taken away from her, gets an interview and eventually gets promoted to upper management. I think my colleague is great personally and will do well with some help. Just wish I had a shot at an interview as well based on track record. Life is not fair, I know.

When I look at outside opportunities in this area in government or at other firms like mine, the minimum requirement for most are a masters. I have not applied to many jobs yet since I've been focusing on working my networks first, but once I do, I guess we will see if the masters requirement is just a bluff.

[Anonymous]

For managerial positions that's probably the issue you're running into.

I'm not a big fan of MBAs (the degrees, not the people) but I do see it as something that helps people get into management and consulting.

Don't take any offense at this but you may be great at what you do but it doesn't necessarily mean that you'd be a great manager. When you say take on high profile assignments, do you mean actually leading the projects or just being a contributor?

If you're not actually leading them, it'll be hard for management to see that you possess the qualities to be a good manager.

To give an example, I recently came across a resume for a department lead where the resume was like five pages of technical experience. While the experience was impressive, the question (not mine) was if the person had what it takes to manage a department and a group of people.

Hopefully as the new management gets to know you and see your work, they'll appreciate your value and give you an opportunity to interview for those positions. It may be something that you want to express interest in if you have any professional development meetings or anything like that.

Or you may even be able to find another organization that will give you a shot.

Not all managers are necessarily technical experts. Where I know some industries and environments where the big talkers who have the necessary credentials are able to move into managerial positions even though they were lacking in the actual knowledge area. Sometimes they don't work out and are able to land elsewhere. We used to call it promoting incompetence as well as revolving doors among a small circle of organizations.

And there are successful managers who might not be able to jump into our seats and do our work but are great at managing people and workflow.

I don't think management is the next step for everyone up the career ladder, at least in the industry that I'm in. So shouldn't look at it as lowering your expectations if you end up not pursuing a position.

For your interests and goals, it sounds like a MBA would be beneficial for you. And as others said if it's not possible right now, maybe wait a couple of years down the road when it will become better. There are a lot of programs out there for working adults.

And also a lot of it is just coming across the right opportunity. Maybe after current management comes to appreciate your skillsets more or finding another organization that is willing to substitute education with experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For managerial positions that's probably the issue you're running into.

I'm not a big fan of MBAs (the degrees, not the people) but I do see it as something that helps people get into management and consulting.

Don't take any offense at this but you may be great at what you do but it doesn't necessarily mean that you'd be a great manager. When you say take on high profile assignments, do you mean actually leading the projects or just being a contributor?

If you're not actually leading them, it'll be hard for management to see that you possess the qualities to be a good manager.

To give an example, I recently came across a resume for a department lead where the resume was like five pages of technical experience. While the experience was impressive, the question (not mine) was if the person had what it takes to manage a department and a group of people.

Hopefully as the new management gets to know you and see your work, they'll appreciate your value and give you an opportunity to interview for those positions. It may be something that you want to express interest in if you have any professional development meetings or anything like that.

Or you may even be able to find another organization that will give you a shot.

Not all managers are necessarily technical experts. Where I know some industries and environments where the big talkers who have the necessary credentials are able to move into managerial positions even though they were lacking in the actual knowledge area. Sometimes they don't work out and are able to land elsewhere. We used to call it promoting incompetence as well as revolving doors among a small circle of organizations.

And there are successful managers who might not be able to jump into our seats and do our work but are great at managing people and workflow.

I don't think management is the next step for everyone up the career ladder, at least in the industry that I'm in. So shouldn't look at it as lowering your expectations if you end up not pursuing a position.

For your interests and goals, it sounds like a MBA would be beneficial for you. And as others said if it's not possible right now, maybe wait a couple of years down the road when it will become better. There are a lot of programs out there for working adults.

And also a lot of it is just coming across the right opportunity. Maybe after current management comes to appreciate your skillsets more or finding another organization that is willing to substitute education with experience.

No offense taken. They obviously don't see me as management material enough to the point where they won't let me interview. The old guard did, but they were waiting for a slot to open up. HQ made wholesale changes and replaced them all. That window is now closed.

Yes, in my role I lead engagements. I select, manage and train staff, or contractors. I am responsible for planning and budgeting. I also need to bring in a certain amount of business annually, and a large part of my performance assessment is based on these numbers. Management at my company is not necessarily about managing people. Its more about client relationship building, strategic planning and revenue generation-- all things that I do exceeding well at based on my evals and #s.

I have a sneaky feeling, HQ is punishing me for turning down an opportunity to lead one of their new offices. The timing and location (UK) did not, and still does not work for my family situation. When the old guard got pushed out, I thought they would promote me since I was in line to take over from my boss. Instead they replaced them with quants who value academic credentials over experience. All the new and middle management (my level) hires are mainly ivy leaguers/top 15 MBAs with minimal experience in my field. They are very smart and I love the perspective they bring to projects, but they don't know how, and have little desire to sell. They just want to check the box on experience so they can eventually get hired by a client. No shame in that, but this new approach has brought the #s for our office down quite a bit, but its my understanding that HQ wants to stay the course on a three to five year target. Maybe by the time I wait it out, I get my MBA on a 5 year track, this new regime will be swept out and then I'll get a shot.

[Anonymous]

Many of the master's are stupid like public policy, strategy etc...

[Anonymous]

I got my Masters while working fulltime because my employer helped with the cost, but I did it before kids. Having one has helped my career. I had a manager who took one class and put on his resume that he was working on his Masters to get his foot in the door for postions that required a Masters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For managerial positions that's probably the issue you're running into.

I'm not a big fan of MBAs (the degrees, not the people) but I do see it as something that helps people get into management and consulting.

Don't take any offense at this but you may be great at what you do but it doesn't necessarily mean that you'd be a great manager. When you say take on high profile assignments, do you mean actually leading the projects or just being a contributor?

If you're not actually leading them, it'll be hard for management to see that you possess the qualities to be a good manager.

To give an example, I recently came across a resume for a department lead where the resume was like five pages of technical experience. While the experience was impressive, the question (not mine) was if the person had what it takes to manage a department and a group of people.

Hopefully as the new management gets to know you and see your work, they'll appreciate your value and give you an opportunity to interview for those positions. It may be something that you want to express interest in if you have any professional development meetings or anything like that.

Or you may even be able to find another organization that will give you a shot.

Not all managers are necessarily technical experts. Where I know some industries and environments where the big talkers who have the necessary credentials are able to move into managerial positions even though they were lacking in the actual knowledge area. Sometimes they don't work out and are able to land elsewhere. We used to call it promoting incompetence as well as revolving doors among a small circle of organizations.

And there are successful managers who might not be able to jump into our seats and do our work but are great at managing people and workflow.

I don't think management is the next step for everyone up the career ladder, at least in the industry that I'm in. So shouldn't look at it as lowering your expectations if you end up not pursuing a position.

For your interests and goals, it sounds like a MBA would be beneficial for you. And as others said if it's not possible right now, maybe wait a couple of years down the road when it will become better. There are a lot of programs out there for working adults.

And also a lot of it is just coming across the right opportunity. Maybe after current management comes to appreciate your skillsets more or finding another organization that is willing to substitute education with experience.

No offense taken. They obviously don't see me as management material enough to the point where they won't let me interview. The old guard did, but they were waiting for a slot to open up. HQ made wholesale changes and replaced them all. That window is now closed.

Yes, in my role I lead engagements. I select, manage and train staff, or contractors. I am responsible for planning and budgeting. I also need to bring in a certain amount of business annually, and a large part of my performance assessment is based on these numbers. Management at my company is not necessarily about managing people. Its more about client relationship building, strategic planning and revenue generation-- all things that I do exceeding well at based on my evals and #s.

I have a sneaky feeling, HQ is punishing me for turning down an opportunity to lead one of their new offices. The timing and location (UK) did not, and still does not work for my family situation. When the old guard got pushed out, I thought they would promote me since I was in line to take over from my boss. Instead they replaced them with quants who value academic credentials over experience. All the new and middle management (my level) hires are mainly ivy leaguers/top 15 MBAs with minimal experience in my field. They are very smart and I love the perspective they bring to projects, but they don't know how, and have little desire to sell. They just want to check the box on experience so they can eventually get hired by a client. No shame in that, but this new approach has brought the #s for our office down quite a bit, but its my understanding that HQ wants to stay the course on a three to five year target. Maybe by the time I wait it out, I get my MBA on a 5 year track, this new regime will be swept out and then I'll get a shot.

Your problem isn't the degree situation. You were offered an opportunity. You turned it down. They aren't punishing you, but you've made it clear that moving up isn't your priority (or at least you aren't willing to pay your dues to get there).

In ALL of your posts, you've mentioned over and over and over again your family situation, your family obligations, your family needs. That's fine. Family is a great priority to have. But if you've even hinted at that when turning down what was likely a great opportunity, then your issue is that you mommy tracked yourself. They see you as a good employee, for sure, but they don't see you as having the kind of ambition that they are looking for in managers.

My guess is that they (as a company) value strong ambition and drive. That's why they are hiring people they know will move up or take the experience and bounce. It still -- for whatever reason -- is worth it to them to hire fast movers.

You turned down an opportunity that (I'm guessing) any one of those Ivy League hires would have jumped on. Their thinking would have been, "Hey, I work a year in the UK, gain the valuable experience, and then put in for something else or bounce."

It's not the degree that they value or that is holding you back; it's the drive.

And I, for one, think there is nothing wrong with prioritizing your family, but it sounds like you are in the wrong industry. A degree won't change the reality. It sounds like you have to be willing to travel, relocate, take the opportunities that come your way, put in the hours if you want to be seen as a major player.

And while you may be good at what you do and have results to show for it, you don't seem to management like you are driven. Honestly, you don't seem that way even just on this thread.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not the job hopping, alpha type. But I've kind of made peace with that and have avoided industries (like finance or law) where that kind of thing is really important in getting ahead. I think you either need to make with who you are and the work-life balance you want or you need to dramatically change your approach/demeanor. If you choose the latter, you need to make a conscious effort never (and I mean never) in the workplace to even hint at limitations due to family obligations. You can't seem choosy about the opportunities you want; you have to take the ones you get or accept that you won't climb that ladder.

[Anonymous]

I have a masters degrees but only becasue my dad was willing to pay for it and I wanted to spend a year on Europe.

It was basically an additional year of undergrad - I didn't learn anything special.

I think it's a mistake to get 100 thousand in debt for degrees like public policy, ir, etc. yet you do see job ads asking for this. It's dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a masters degrees but only becasue my dad was willing to pay for it and I wanted to spend a year on Europe.

It was basically an additional year of undergrad - I didn't learn anything special.

I think it's a mistake to get 100 thousand in debt for degrees like public policy, ir, etc. yet you do see job ads asking for this. It's dumb.

Debt point aside, you realize that you just dismissed those degrees as pointless and then said that job ads ask for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For managerial positions that's probably the issue you're running into.

I'm not a big fan of MBAs (the degrees, not the people) but I do see it as something that helps people get into management and consulting.

Don't take any offense at this but you may be great at what you do but it doesn't necessarily mean that you'd be a great manager. When you say take on high profile assignments, do you mean actually leading the projects or just being a contributor?

If you're not actually leading them, it'll be hard for management to see that you possess the qualities to be a good manager.

To give an example, I recently came across a resume for a department lead where the resume was like five pages of technical experience. While the experience was impressive, the question (not mine) was if the person had what it takes to manage a department and a group of people.

Hopefully as the new management gets to know you and see your work, they'll appreciate your value and give you an opportunity to interview for those positions. It may be something that you want to express interest in if you have any professional development meetings or anything like that.

Or you may even be able to find another organization that will give you a shot.

Not all managers are necessarily technical experts. Where I know some industries and environments where the big talkers who have the necessary credentials are able to move into managerial positions even though they were lacking in the actual knowledge area. Sometimes they don't work out and are able to land elsewhere. We used to call it promoting incompetence as well as revolving doors among a small circle of organizations.

And there are successful managers who might not be able to jump into our seats and do our work but are great at managing people and workflow.

I don't think management is the next step for everyone up the career ladder, at least in the industry that I'm in. So shouldn't look at it as lowering your expectations if you end up not pursuing a position.

For your interests and goals, it sounds like a MBA would be beneficial for you. And as others said if it's not possible right now, maybe wait a couple of years down the road when it will become better. There are a lot of programs out there for working adults.

And also a lot of it is just coming across the right opportunity. Maybe after current management comes to appreciate your skillsets more or finding another organization that is willing to substitute education with experience.

No offense taken. They obviously don't see me as management material enough to the point where they won't let me interview. The old guard did, but they were waiting for a slot to open up. HQ made wholesale changes and replaced them all. That window is now closed.

Yes, in my role I lead engagements. I select, manage and train staff, or contractors. I am responsible for planning and budgeting. I also need to bring in a certain amount of business annually, and a large part of my performance assessment is based on these numbers. Management at my company is not necessarily about managing people. Its more about client relationship building, strategic planning and revenue generation-- all things that I do exceeding well at based on my evals and #s.

I have a sneaky feeling, HQ is punishing me for turning down an opportunity to lead one of their new offices. The timing and location (UK) did not, and still does not work for my family situation. When the old guard got pushed out, I thought they would promote me since I was in line to take over from my boss. Instead they replaced them with quants who value academic credentials over experience. All the new and middle management (my level) hires are mainly ivy leaguers/top 15 MBAs with minimal experience in my field. They are very smart and I love the perspective they bring to projects, but they don't know how, and have little desire to sell. They just want to check the box on experience so they can eventually get hired by a client. No shame in that, but this new approach has brought the #s for our office down quite a bit, but its my understanding that HQ wants to stay the course on a three to five year target. Maybe by the time I wait it out, I get my MBA on a 5 year track, this new regime will be swept out and then I'll get a shot.

Your problem isn't the degree situation. You were offered an opportunity. You turned it down. They aren't punishing you, but you've made it clear that moving up isn't your priority (or at least you aren't willing to pay your dues to get there).

In ALL of your posts, you've mentioned over and over and over again your family situation, your family obligations, your family needs. That's fine. Family is a great priority to have. But if you've even hinted at that when turning down what was likely a great opportunity, then your issue is that you mommy tracked yourself. They see you as a good employee, for sure, but they don't see you as having the kind of ambition that they are looking for in managers.

My guess is that they (as a company) value strong ambition and drive. That's why they are hiring people they know will move up or take the experience and bounce. It still -- for whatever reason -- is worth it to them to hire fast movers.

You turned down an opportunity that (I'm guessing) any one of those Ivy League hires would have jumped on. Their thinking would have been, "Hey, I work a year in the UK, gain the valuable experience, and then put in for something else or bounce."

It's not the degree that they value or that is holding you back; it's the drive.

And I, for one, think there is nothing wrong with prioritizing your family, but it sounds like you are in the wrong industry. A degree won't change the reality. It sounds like you have to be willing to travel, relocate, take the opportunities that come your way, put in the hours if you want to be seen as a major player.

And while you may be good at what you do and have results to show for it, you don't seem to management like you are driven. Honestly, you don't seem that way even just on this thread.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not the job hopping, alpha type. But I've kind of made peace with that and have avoided industries (like finance or law) where that kind of thing is really important in getting ahead. I think you either need to make with who you are and the work-life balance you want or you need to dramatically change your approach/demeanor. If you choose the latter, you need to make a conscious effort never (and I mean never) in the workplace to even hint at limitations due to family obligations. You can't seem choosy about the opportunities you want; you have to take the ones you get or accept that you won't climb that ladder.

I would agree with all of this except for the driven part. I work 14 hour days regularly, and I am usually on the road during the early half of the week. I just can't LIVE in another country at this point in time. If that means I'm not as driven some single Ivy leaguer who has no responsibilities then so be it. Also, why would I need to relocate if there is opportunity right here in DC? Thats really the crux of the problem, not my inability to uproot all of everyone to UK for 24 months to get an office up and running in a new market where we have no presence.

[Anonymous]

^^^ I'm the PP you are responding to above.

Driven doesn't just mean working long hours. It means being willing to take the risky, challenging assignments that, if done well, get you great exposure.

They see you as choosy. There's nothing wrong with that. It's fine that you don't want to uproot your family, but when you turned that opportunity down, you sent the message that you weren't hungry for opportunities to shine.

The Ivy leaguers are.

Some industries prefer fast-moving, highly driven, do-what-it-takes to make my mark personalities. Other industries value solid, steady, long-term employees and are accommodating of their boundaries.

You are in the wrong industry. And your contempt and your unwillingness shows through in your post.

First off, no one is going to promote you to manage people you obviously regard with contempt, especially if you don't seem to value the same characteristics that your company obviously values.

Second, why should you get to choose the opportunity in DC just because you made the choice to have a family? That is how the Ivy leaguers and others (who made choices to get advanced degrees) see it. It's possible that you are perceived as entitled. You aren't willing to get the advanced degree, but you think you deserve the best assignments (the ones that don't involve moving).

As I said, it's completely fine that you put your family first. But that has tradeoffs. It's not even just a woman's issue. If a man were in your shoes and turned down the opportunity to spearhead a new office in a new country because he didn't want to uproot his family, he would also kind of be overlooked for future promotions. He wouldn't be regarded as a bad employee. He just would be viewed as having different priorities, not being a risk taker, not being willing to lead, et cetera.

If you really want to move up the ladder, you might be ahead to get a job at a different company where you have a fresh start.

[Anonymous]

9:51 here again.

And I say all of that as someone who is risk-averse, values my personal life, values boundaries and work-life balance.

But I know that having those priorities means that certain industries aren't for me, and if I were to work in those industries (even with my advanced degree from a prestigious university), I probably would not be seen as promotion material.

You turned down a promotion that had challenges. That sent a message that you don't want to take the challenges.

That last line about it being a market where you have no presence says it all. You don't want to spearhead a new office. You want to move into an established position that doesn't require you to move, take on the risk of failure, or even have to get an advanced degree.

[Anonymous]

9:51 here again.

I knew a guy who took on an assignment abroad for a year. His wife and kids stayed here, and he took the opportunity. It was difficult, but he knew that it would be a good move for his career.

And it was.

Again, it's not the degree. It's the willingness to take on risky opportunities that could have huge payouts.

[Anonymous]

NP here, It sounds like OP's problem is with his/her particular employer's policies and the industry demands, not the lack of a Master's degree. It sounds like some sort of consulting position, no? So the credentials become far more important in that situation because you want to present yourselves as subject matter experts to win new business. For better or worse, it's a lot easier to sell a Wharton MBA than with 8 years of experience than an undergrad degree with 13. It just is. However, in a more internal facing position, it's more important to be able to get the job done. You only need to sell yourself once to get the job.. not over and over again to new clients. It might be time to look around and see what other options there are outside your current employer.