Is there any place for math/science kid (not TJ level) in IB HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't students who aren't pursuing the IB diploma take IB classes? And who is doing this stigmatizing that some people refer to?

Many, many kids do take IB a la carte. The top 10% of the class or so will go for the full diploma, which is prestigious. But nobody stigmatizes kids who only take some IB classes, anymore than kids are stigmatized for "only" taking 3-4 APs. And IB full diploma and IB a la carte are the same peer group sitting together in the same class. The only issue is that if you are not pursing the full IB diploma and it's available, your guidance counselor may not certify for colleges that you are taking the "most rigorous course load available.' -- IB parent

In fact, you're considered second-class at an IB school by both school administrators and college admissions officers if you're not among the small minority pursuing the full IB diploma. It sucks, which is why most people try to avoid IB schools, but there will always be a small number of IB parents who sing its praises.

This was not the case at our FCPS school as well as the colleges that accepted DD.

[Anonymous]

FCPS had 237 National Merit Semifinalists this school year. 163 go to TJ, which has AP and more advanced courses, and no IB. Of the remaining 74, 68 attend AP schools and only six go to IB schools, even though one-third of the high schools in the county excluding TJ are IB.

The record of IB schools in FCPS is underwhelming at best. The six high schools in FCPS with the highest SATs are all AP. Of the seven with the lowest scores, five are IB. FCPS tried to replace AP with IB at Woodson, and the parents forced them to restore AP. And, there has never been a plan to redistrict students from an AP school to an IB school that was not met with protests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS had 237 National Merit Semifinalists this school year. 163 go to TJ, which has AP and more advanced courses, and no IB. Of the remaining 74, 68 attend AP schools and only six go to IB schools, even though one-third of the high schools in the county excluding TJ are IB.

The record of IB schools in FCPS is underwhelming at best. The six high schools in FCPS with the highest SATs are all AP. Of the seven with the lowest scores, five are IB. FCPS tried to replace AP with IB at Woodson, and the parents forced them to restore AP. And, there has never been a plan to redistrict students from an AP school to an IB school that was not met with protests.

Successful students =/= NMSF

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS had 237 National Merit Semifinalists this school year. 163 go to TJ, which has AP and more advanced courses, and no IB. Of the remaining 74, 68 attend AP schools and only six go to IB schools, even though one-third of the high schools in the county excluding TJ are IB.

The record of IB schools in FCPS is underwhelming at best. The six high schools in FCPS with the highest SATs are all AP. Of the seven with the lowest scores, five are IB. FCPS tried to replace AP with IB at Woodson, and the parents forced them to restore AP. And, there has never been a plan to redistrict students from an AP school to an IB school that was not met with protests.

Successful students =/= NMSF

AP schools in FCPS = more NMSF, higher SATs, higher graduation rates, higher college readiness metrics, more science competition winners, more net pupil placements, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS had 237 National Merit Semifinalists this school year. 163 go to TJ, which has AP and more advanced courses, and no IB. Of the remaining 74, 68 attend AP schools and only six go to IB schools, even though one-third of the high schools in the county excluding TJ are IB.

The record of IB schools in FCPS is underwhelming at best. The six high schools in FCPS with the highest SATs are all AP. Of the seven with the lowest scores, five are IB. FCPS tried to replace AP with IB at Woodson, and the parents forced them to restore AP. And, there has never been a plan to redistrict students from an AP school to an IB school that was not met with protests.

wtf? AP is better because it is offered by TJ? Seriously? You get that a TJ diploma has a lot of extra requirements? And that an IB diploma also has a lot of extra requirements, that are different than the TJ diploma. Doing either without summer school is a challenge-- and may be impossible if you play an instrument. It would be impossible to get both a TJ diploma and an IB diploma unless you spent 5 years in HS. Also, these programs have very different philosophies. IB is humanities heavy, interdisciplinary and needs 5 years of a foreign language, etc. TJ is (duh) STEM centric. Come back when you figure out wtf you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS had 237 National Merit Semifinalists this school year. 163 go to TJ, which has AP and more advanced courses, and no IB. Of the remaining 74, 68 attend AP schools and only six go to IB schools, even though one-third of the high schools in the county excluding TJ are IB.

The record of IB schools in FCPS is underwhelming at best. The six high schools in FCPS with the highest SATs are all AP. Of the seven with the lowest scores, five are IB. FCPS tried to replace AP with IB at Woodson, and the parents forced them to restore AP. And, there has never been a plan to redistrict students from an AP school to an IB school that was not met with protests.

Successful students =/= NMSF

AP schools in FCPS = more NMSF, higher SATs, higher graduation rates, higher college readiness metrics, more science competition winners, more net pupil placements, etc.

more NMSF = where more students take PSATs; do you have data indicating the mean PSAT scores for all students taking 9 or more AP courses as compared to the mean PSAT scores for IB Diploma candidates?

higher SATs -> correlated with higher SES; do you have the data comparing SAT scores of all students taking 9 or more AP courses as compared to the SAT scores for IB Diploma candidates, holding SES as a constant?

higher graduation rates -- see "higher SATs" instance above

higher college readiness metrics -> correlated with higher SES; do you have the data comparing college readiness metrics of all students taking 9 or more AP courses as compared to the college readiness metrics for IB Diploma candidates, holding SES as a constant?

more science competition winners =/= successful students; students can be successful in music, the arts, writing, history, etc. -- it is NOT all about science (or STEM)

more net pupil placements -- what type of "pupil placements"? Are you referring to pupil placements for academy courses, world languages, etc.? If so, then this is also correlated with SES, as transportation is not provided for pupil placed students, and therefore higher SES families are more likely to seek pupil placements. Do you have do you have the data comparing pupil placement numbers, by type, of all students taking 9 or more AP courses as compared to the pupil placement numbers, by type, for IB Diploma candidates, holding SES as a constant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS had 237 National Merit Semifinalists this school year. 163 go to TJ, which has AP and more advanced courses, and no IB. Of the remaining 74, 68 attend AP schools and only six go to IB schools, even though one-third of the high schools in the county excluding TJ are IB.

The record of IB schools in FCPS is underwhelming at best. The six high schools in FCPS with the highest SATs are all AP. Of the seven with the lowest scores, five are IB. FCPS tried to replace AP with IB at Woodson, and the parents forced them to restore AP. And, there has never been a plan to redistrict students from an AP school to an IB school that was not met with protests.

wtf? AP is better because it is offered by TJ? Seriously? You get that a TJ diploma has a lot of extra requirements? And that an IB diploma also has a lot of extra requirements, that are different than the TJ diploma. Doing either without summer school is a challenge-- and may be impossible if you play an instrument. It would be impossible to get both a TJ diploma and an IB diploma unless you spent 5 years in HS. Also, these programs have very different philosophies. IB is humanities heavy, interdisciplinary and needs 5 years of a foreign language, etc. TJ is (duh) STEM centric. Come back when you figure out wtf you are talking about.

Uh, I think OP described her kid as a math/science kid. Not that IB is anything close to the humanities equivalent of TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS had 237 National Merit Semifinalists this school year. 163 go to TJ, which has AP and more advanced courses, and no IB. Of the remaining 74, 68 attend AP schools and only six go to IB schools, even though one-third of the high schools in the county excluding TJ are IB.

The record of IB schools in FCPS is underwhelming at best. The six high schools in FCPS with the highest SATs are all AP. Of the seven with the lowest scores, five are IB. FCPS tried to replace AP with IB at Woodson, and the parents forced them to restore AP. And, there has never been a plan to redistrict students from an AP school to an IB school that was not met with protests.

wtf? AP is better because it is offered by TJ? Seriously? You get that a TJ diploma has a lot of extra requirements? And that an IB diploma also has a lot of extra requirements, that are different than the TJ diploma. Doing either without summer school is a challenge-- and may be impossible if you play an instrument. It would be impossible to get both a TJ diploma and an IB diploma unless you spent 5 years in HS. Also, these programs have very different philosophies. IB is humanities heavy, interdisciplinary and needs 5 years of a foreign language, etc. TJ is (duh) STEM centric. Come back when you figure out wtf you are talking about.

Uh, I think OP described her kid as a math/science kid. Not that IB is anything close to the humanities equivalent of TJ.

Nope. But there are 4 types of diplomas in FCPS (non-special Ed): standard, advanced, IB and TJ. PP is saying TJ is the best school in FCPS and doesn't offer IB, which means AP must be better. I'm saying a TJ diploma and an IB diploma are completely incompatible. You can't do both. FWIW OP: my STEM smart kid (also not too shabby in the humanities and a good writer) pupil placed for IB in case he is not admitted to TJ next year. But he plans to do the full diploma. We looked hard at the requirement with him and mapped out a schedule that ended with the IB diploma before we signed off on the pupil placement. It's incredibly rigorous. He will be challenged and get a great education. It's a very good plan B.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS had 237 National Merit Semifinalists this school year. 163 go to TJ, which has AP and more advanced courses, and no IB. Of the remaining 74, 68 attend AP schools and only six go to IB schools, even though one-third of the high schools in the county excluding TJ are IB.

The record of IB schools in FCPS is underwhelming at best. The six high schools in FCPS with the highest SATs are all AP. Of the seven with the lowest scores, five are IB. FCPS tried to replace AP with IB at Woodson, and the parents forced them to restore AP. And, there has never been a plan to redistrict students from an AP school to an IB school that was not met with protests.

wtf? AP is better because it is offered by TJ? Seriously? You get that a TJ diploma has a lot of extra requirements? And that an IB diploma also has a lot of extra requirements, that are different than the TJ diploma. Doing either without summer school is a challenge-- and may be impossible if you play an instrument. It would be impossible to get both a TJ diploma and an IB diploma unless you spent 5 years in HS. Also, these programs have very different philosophies. IB is humanities heavy, interdisciplinary and needs 5 years of a foreign language, etc. TJ is (duh) STEM centric. Come back when you figure out wtf you are talking about.

Uh, I think OP described her kid as a math/science kid. Not that IB is anything close to the humanities equivalent of TJ.

Nope. But there are 4 types of diplomas in FCPS (non-special Ed): standard, advanced, IB and TJ. PP is saying TJ is the best school in FCPS and doesn't offer IB, which means AP must be better. I'm saying a TJ diploma and an IB diploma are completely incompatible. You can't do both. FWIW OP: my STEM smart kid (also not too shabby in the humanities and a good writer) pupil placed for IB in case he is not admitted to TJ next year. But he plans to do the full diploma. We looked hard at the requirement with him and mapped out a schedule that ended with the IB diploma before we signed off on the pupil placement. It's incredibly rigorous. He will be challenged and get a great education. It's a very good plan B.

Again, the evidence is overwhelming that most STEM-smart students in FCPS go to TJ and other schools with a full menu of AP courses.

And, just so you know, FCPS does not issue IB diplomas. They are issued by the IBO after the vast majority of American students know where they are attending college or university.

Relatively few FCPS students end up with any benefits from IB they could not have obtained from AP. But the IBO markets it in a pretty package for FCPS to resell, kind of like an all-inclusive educational cruise. Most of the more discerning, better educated families see through the hype and prefer AP schools, as the prior data shows. To ascribe the superior performance of the AP schools to the higher SES levels of parents who live in the AP districts actually proves too much.

[Anonymous]

^Pardon, your elitism is showing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Pardon, your elitism is showing

IB has been around FCPS for quite a while now. For the most part, it's been a failed experiment. The gap between the top AP schools and the bottom IB schools is greater than ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS had 237 National Merit Semifinalists this school year. 163 go to TJ, which has AP and more advanced courses, and no IB. Of the remaining 74, 68 attend AP schools and only six go to IB schools, even though one-third of the high schools in the county excluding TJ are IB.

The record of IB schools in FCPS is underwhelming at best. The six high schools in FCPS with the highest SATs are all AP. Of the seven with the lowest scores, five are IB. FCPS tried to replace AP with IB at Woodson, and the parents forced them to restore AP. And, there has never been a plan to redistrict students from an AP school to an IB school that was not met with protests.

wtf? AP is better because it is offered by TJ? Seriously? You get that a TJ diploma has a lot of extra requirements? And that an IB diploma also has a lot of extra requirements, that are different than the TJ diploma. Doing either without summer school is a challenge-- and may be impossible if you play an instrument. It would be impossible to get both a TJ diploma and an IB diploma unless you spent 5 years in HS. Also, these programs have very different philosophies. IB is humanities heavy, interdisciplinary and needs 5 years of a foreign language, etc. TJ is (duh) STEM centric. Come back when you figure out wtf you are talking about.

Uh, I think OP described her kid as a math/science kid. Not that IB is anything close to the humanities equivalent of TJ.

Nope. But there are 4 types of diplomas in FCPS (non-special Ed): standard, advanced, IB and TJ. PP is saying TJ is the best school in FCPS and doesn't offer IB, which means AP must be better. I'm saying a TJ diploma and an IB diploma are completely incompatible. You can't do both. FWIW OP: my STEM smart kid (also not too shabby in the humanities and a good writer) pupil placed for IB in case he is not admitted to TJ next year. But he plans to do the full diploma. We looked hard at the requirement with him and mapped out a schedule that ended with the IB diploma before we signed off on the pupil placement. It's incredibly rigorous. He will be challenged and get a great education. It's a very good plan B.

We spoke to some parents and kids about IB. The bottom line was that the diploma program can be a giant pressure-cooker in an American high school setting if you try to participate in other typical activities (many nights with 4-5 hours of sleep), their friends at AP schools were happier and reported fewer "busy work" assignments, and they weren't at any advantage applying to schools, either. You can try to "map out" a schedule for your kid, but he's the one who'll have to keep up with the demands of the program. Our conclusion was that it wasn't worth it. DC did AP, had excellent test scores, and is now in a top CS program at a top 50 university.

[Anonymous]

Two of my kids did IB Diploma - one got a full ride and the second got a full tuition. It's a nice program if your kid can keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two of my kids did IB Diploma - one got a full ride and the second got a full tuition. It's a nice program if your kid can keep up.

A friend's child did it and then went to Stanford. In FCPS, it's a nice path for the kids coming out of the competitive AAP MS Centers. The problem is parents whose kids can't keep up or don't want to. When the counter argument boils down to, it's too stressful/too hard for American kids, that's just sad. Some kids want or need the challenge. And as has been shown in these threads at length, acceptance rates at highly selective colleges are higher for IB diploma candidates than for AP candidates. If your kid doesn't want that, fine. But lots of kids do. And lots of IB diploma kids are going Ivy, or highly selective with significant merit aid.

[Anonymous]

About 90% of grads of IB high schools in FCPS fail to get IB diplomas. It's a very poor return given all the money FCPS throws at the program.