University of Chicago: what kind of student does best?

[Anonymous]

Or not. For kids who are looking for a major research university or people who are working at the cutting edge of their discipline, Reed and Swarthmore have little appeal. More similarities among undergrad cohort (though even there I'm kind of skeptical -- Reed vs. Chicago econ for example) than among faculties.

[Anonymous]

^^Sorry, that sounded snippier than I meant it to.

My point isn't Swarthmore and Reed aren't good choices, it was more that whether you consider them similar to U of C will depend on what draws you to U of C. If it's small seminars with smart kids (many of whom have actually done most of the reading), then, yeah, consider these alternatives. That's the overlap. But politics, scale, location/environment, research opportunities, and range of available courses are really different.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't U of C = "where fun goes to die"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't U of C = "where fun goes to die"?

Yes, although they are trying to combat that image. DC's reminder to apply came with a cute kitten on the envelope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for posting! Question about houses -- what's your best guess re how North Campus will pan out? Another Max P or South -- or will the combination of exiles (from Breckinridge et al) and redesign create a somewhere-in-the-middle option?

North has a lot more singles than Max P or South, which tends to attract nerdier people. The house structure is totally different, Max P and South are just normal dorms that you could find at any other school and the borders between the houses are just invisible lines in the hallways. It doesn't lead to a very cohesive house structure. In North, every three floors is one house with a house lounge going through the middle so despite the size I believe it will be much better than Max P and South. And honestly the conventional wisdom that "small houses are closer" is dirty propaganda propagated by BJ which has tiny houses; Hitchcock has 150, Maclean has around 100 (I think), and Breck has about 80. All three have very close-knit. Max P and South has plenty of nerdy people (though I wouldn't say it's true for the Ivy-League types, there are not many of them in the nerdier dorms) but because the house community makes less of an impact, the extroverted party types tend to stick out more and make more an impact. There isn't much of an alternative to finding people in the dorm through partying because people don't do things as a house.

Most people from the satellite dorms who aren't first years are planning on moving out, so that will barely make a difference. Breck is moving to I-House and keeping its name. But still, I would be shocked if North was as bad as South and Max P.

Anonymous wrote:Why is bio the worst part of the core? How do pre-meds do at Chicago?

Bio is the worst part of the core because Core Bio is a 3 hour lecture usually offered in the morning three times a week filled with people who don't like bio that isn't taught very well and is hard in the classic bio "you have to memorize a lot of stuff" sort of way. There is a normal bio sequence for bio majors and pre-meds and a masochistic bio sequence (called AP 5 or Advanced Bio) for people who really want to be bio researchers (as a rule, this class does not give out As to keep out pre-meds). Both are apparently much better than Core Bio.

Not gonna lie, it's hard to be a pre-med here. Everything is harder because professors don't like giving As and you have to take lots of classes you might not be as good at because of the core. Bio professors do not like pre-meds. And on top of all that, getting a degree from UChicago isn't going to help you get into med school. Still, if someone loves every other aspect of the school and wants to be a pre-med, I wouldn't let that dissuade you. It's not impossible to be a pre-med here. There are plenty of successful pre-meds, and it's better to be at a school you enjoy even if it doesn't fit your career goals perfectly. You don't want to be at a school you like less because of pre-med and then decide you don't want to be pre-med, which happens often.

Anonymous wrote:What a thorough and helpful review from the student! So it sounds like Columbia is less stressful overall if one were to choose (re the core v sciences etc).

No, Columbia is just as stressful. They also have a core, and they are way more competitive than us. We don't have much of a culture of trying to be the best. There's a culture of working hard and probably biting off more than you can chew academically (usually because people want to, which says a lot about us), sure, but not a culture of trying to present an image that your life is perfect to cover up your own insecurities. At other schools (including Columbia), there's a culture of seeming like everything is fine, often to not very nice results (see: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/education/edlife/stress-social-media-and-suicide-on-campus.html, http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12833146/instagram-account-university-pennsylvania-runner-showed-only-part-story). That simply doesn't exist here. I think people at UChicago are as happy/happier than people at other schools, but are more realistic about things that aren't perfect. I have plenty of friends at other top schools. I have talked to people there. They're all miserable too, it's just taboo to ever mention it.

[Anonymous]

Oh, that last sentence wasn't mean to imply that everyone here is miserable, because that simply isn't true. And people at other schools aren't all miserable either. It's just that at UChicago people talk about it, and at other schools they don't. Misery levels are probably about equal, it just appears to be higher.

[Anonymous]

...and that NYTimes link is broken. Here's the fixed one: www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/education/edlife/stress-social-media-and-suicide-on-campus.html

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your comments re North -- just what my kid was hoping to hear!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for posting! Question about houses -- what's your best guess re how North Campus will pan out? Another Max P or South -- or will the combination of exiles (from Breckinridge et al) and redesign create a somewhere-in-the-middle option?

North has a lot more singles than Max P or South, which tends to attract nerdier people. The house structure is totally different, Max P and South are just normal dorms that you could find at any other school and the borders between the houses are just invisible lines in the hallways. It doesn't lead to a very cohesive house structure. In North, every three floors is one house with a house lounge going through the middle so despite the size I believe it will be much better than Max P and South. And honestly the conventional wisdom that "small houses are closer" is dirty propaganda propagated by BJ which has tiny houses; Hitchcock has 150, Maclean has around 100 (I think), and Breck has about 80. All three have very close-knit. Max P and South has plenty of nerdy people (though I wouldn't say it's true for the Ivy-League types, there are not many of them in the nerdier dorms) but because the house community makes less of an impact, the extroverted party types tend to stick out more and make more an impact. There isn't much of an alternative to finding people in the dorm through partying because people don't do things as a house.

Most people from the satellite dorms who aren't first years are planning on moving out, so that will barely make a difference. Breck is moving to I-House and keeping its name. But still, I would be shocked if North was as bad as South and Max P.

Anonymous wrote:Why is bio the worst part of the core? How do pre-meds do at Chicago?

Bio is the worst part of the core because Core Bio is a 3 hour lecture usually offered in the morning three times a week filled with people who don't like bio that isn't taught very well and is hard in the classic bio "you have to memorize a lot of stuff" sort of way. There is a normal bio sequence for bio majors and pre-meds and a masochistic bio sequence (called AP 5 or Advanced Bio) for people who really want to be bio researchers (as a rule, this class does not give out As to keep out pre-meds). Both are apparently much better than Core Bio.

Not gonna lie, it's hard to be a pre-med here. Everything is harder because professors don't like giving As and you have to take lots of classes you might not be as good at because of the core. Bio professors do not like pre-meds. And on top of all that, getting a degree from UChicago isn't going to help you get into med school. Still, if someone loves every other aspect of the school and wants to be a pre-med, I wouldn't let that dissuade you. It's not impossible to be a pre-med here. There are plenty of successful pre-meds, and it's better to be at a school you enjoy even if it doesn't fit your career goals perfectly. You don't want to be at a school you like less because of pre-med and then decide you don't want to be pre-med, which happens often.

Anonymous wrote:What a thorough and helpful review from the student! So it sounds like Columbia is less stressful overall if one were to choose (re the core v sciences etc).

No, Columbia is just as stressful. They also have a core, and they are way more competitive than us. We don't have much of a culture of trying to be the best. There's a culture of working hard and probably biting off more than you can chew academically (usually because people want to, which says a lot about us), sure, but not a culture of trying to present an image that your life is perfect to cover up your own insecurities. At other schools (including Columbia), there's a culture of seeming like everything is fine, often to not very nice results (see: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/education/edlife/stress-social-media-and-suicide-on-campus.html, http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12833146/instagram-account-university-pennsylvania-runner-showed-only-part-story). That simply doesn't exist here. I think people at UChicago are as happy/happier than people at other schools, but are more realistic about things that aren't perfect. I have plenty of friends at other top schools. I have talked to people there. They're all miserable too, it's just taboo to ever mention it.

In a nutshell, this is what sucks about Chicago social life. If you don't want to go to frat parties and get blasted, but you actually want to have fun during your college years, there's not a whole lot else to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Um, sorry, just happened last week with my new neighbors who hail from the wilds of Naperville. I am merely speaking from my experiences.

Well, Naperville. That explains everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't U of C = "where fun goes to die"?

My friend who graduated from U of C insists that she had fun there. It was just a different kind of fun. Bookish, hard-working students love it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is an intensity at Chicago that is really unmated from what I've seen (I was a PhD student who taught there but went to an Ivy undergrad).

The pro: amazing campus, strong programs and good support for quirky smart kids.

The bad: not a pre-professional school. So if you kid wants to go to law school or med school this might not be the best place for them.

Actually, Chicago is increasingly pre-professional. Though grade deflation and a combative academic culture make things very tough for pre-meds, there are plenty of pre-law and pre-MBA types. As Chicago has become more selective and risen in the rankings, the Chicago that you and other posters describe has been transformed -- for better or worse is in the beholder's eye. Today, Chicago draws many students who also apply and are accepted to Ivies. This means fewer quirky kids and more "normals," as the student newspaper refers to this new breed of Chicago student.

Prospective applicants should also consider very carefully the school's location. Visit in February, not October or April -- and remember, it's not just the cold, it's the darkness that gets to people. Even in good weather, the campus itself is beautiful, Hyde Park has its charms, and Chicago is a fabulous city, but the neighborhoods around Hyde Park struggle with poverty and crime, and publc transit isn't great, with the result that many Chicago students feel confined to a very small geographic area -- albeit a lovely one.

Finally, don't underestimate the impact of Chicago's quarterly academic calendar. It sets a breakneck pace for even the most disciplined and bright student.

The public transit system in Chicago may not be the safest in parts of Chicago, but there is no place in Chicago you can't get to on public transportation from the CTA bus ànd the 'L' to the Metra.

So I have to disagree that Chicago doesn't have a good transit system.

I didn't say that the city of Chicago doesn't have a good transit system; rather that public transit to/from the UofC area is not good.

I worked on campus for a year. You take the Metra from the Loop and the CTA goes everywhere from the Loop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for posting! Question about houses -- what's your best guess re how North Campus will pan out? Another Max P or South -- or will the combination of exiles (from Breckinridge et al) and redesign create a somewhere-in-the-middle option?

North has a lot more singles than Max P or South, which tends to attract nerdier people. The house structure is totally different, Max P and South are just normal dorms that you could find at any other school and the borders between the houses are just invisible lines in the hallways. It doesn't lead to a very cohesive house structure. In North, every three floors is one house with a house lounge going through the middle so despite the size I believe it will be much better than Max P and South. And honestly the conventional wisdom that "small houses are closer" is dirty propaganda propagated by BJ which has tiny houses; Hitchcock has 150, Maclean has around 100 (I think), and Breck has about 80. All three have very close-knit. Max P and South has plenty of nerdy people (though I wouldn't say it's true for the Ivy-League types, there are not many of them in the nerdier dorms) but because the house community makes less of an impact, the extroverted party types tend to stick out more and make more an impact. There isn't much of an alternative to finding people in the dorm through partying because people don't do things as a house.

Most people from the satellite dorms who aren't first years are planning on moving out, so that will barely make a difference. Breck is moving to I-House and keeping its name. But still, I would be shocked if North was as bad as South and Max P.

Anonymous wrote:Why is bio the worst part of the core? How do pre-meds do at Chicago?

Bio is the worst part of the core because Core Bio is a 3 hour lecture usually offered in the morning three times a week filled with people who don't like bio that isn't taught very well and is hard in the classic bio "you have to memorize a lot of stuff" sort of way. There is a normal bio sequence for bio majors and pre-meds and a masochistic bio sequence (called AP 5 or Advanced Bio) for people who really want to be bio researchers (as a rule, this class does not give out As to keep out pre-meds). Both are apparently much better than Core Bio.

Not gonna lie, it's hard to be a pre-med here. Everything is harder because professors don't like giving As and you have to take lots of classes you might not be as good at because of the core. Bio professors do not like pre-meds. And on top of all that, getting a degree from UChicago isn't going to help you get into med school. Still, if someone loves every other aspect of the school and wants to be a pre-med, I wouldn't let that dissuade you. It's not impossible to be a pre-med here. There are plenty of successful pre-meds, and it's better to be at a school you enjoy even if it doesn't fit your career goals perfectly. You don't want to be at a school you like less because of pre-med and then decide you don't want to be pre-med, which happens often.

Anonymous wrote:What a thorough and helpful review from the student! So it sounds like Columbia is less stressful overall if one were to choose (re the core v sciences etc).

No, Columbia is just as stressful. They also have a core, and they are way more competitive than us. We don't have much of a culture of trying to be the best. There's a culture of working hard and probably biting off more than you can chew academically (usually because people want to, which says a lot about us), sure, but not a culture of trying to present an image that your life is perfect to cover up your own insecurities. At other schools (including Columbia), there's a culture of seeming like everything is fine, often to not very nice results (see: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/education/edlife/stress-social-media-and-suicide-on-campus.html, http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12833146/instagram-account-university-pennsylvania-runner-showed-only-part-story). That simply doesn't exist here. I think people at UChicago are as happy/happier than people at other schools, but are more realistic about things that aren't perfect. I have plenty of friends at other top schools. I have talked to people there. They're all miserable too, it's just taboo to ever mention it.

In a nutshell, this is what sucks about Chicago social life. If you don't want to go to frat parties and get blasted, but you actually want to have fun during your college years, there's not a whole lot else to do.

Unless having fun imeans talking, making music, playing boardgames, going to the gym, ice skating, or participating in intramural sports with your friends. Or going to a lecture or film or performance on campus during the week or to a concert or play or museum or restaurant or club in the city on the weekend.

I'd say workload is heavy, so making time for fun can be difficult, but there's plenty of fun to be had at U of C and very little of it would involve frat parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell, this is what sucks about Chicago social life. If you don't want to go to frat parties and get blasted, but you actually want to have fun during your college years, there's not a whole lot else to do.

Oh please.

I was only talking about in dorms. South and Max P people mostly don't make friends in their dorm through their houses and have to resort to dorm parties because there isn't much of a house culture there. That doesn't mean that's all they do. It means they make friends the way people do at every other school that doesn't have houses. Class, clubs, student organizations, etc. etc. Max P and South only part a lot in relation to other UChicago dorms. They're pretty much the same as dorms at other schools.

If someone thinks there isn't anything to do here they don't have an imagination.

First of all, there's the city of Chicago. There are tons of concerts (and the Symphony is like $15 for students). Museums (most of which are free with a student ID). There are interesting places to eat, neighborhoods to explore, parks to wander, architecture to look at, football, basketball, soccer, baseball and hockey games to attend and on and on. Then there's all the stuff to do on campus. Get involved in University Theater. Join any of the other dance teams, which range from ballroom to ballet to contemporary. There's like 5 acapella groups and a few different choirs. We have a UChicago Symphony and Chamber orchestra. Hack@uchicago organizes a party with free food every Friday where people hang out and talk and program. Do research (which many people find pretty fun). Join the Maroon or the South Side Weekly or, if you're sarcastic, the Shady Dealer or Off Off Campus (a comedy troupe that alumni of which created Second City). We have an ice rink on the midway. There are cheap films at Doc Films almost every day. Intramural sports get intense (look up Sportsfrolic or the annual Crown vs Alper broomball game). Go roofing with your friends. Sit around and debate philosophy until 5 am.

I couldn't even list all the things you can do for fun here. Our motto "where fun comes to die" is so frequently misunderstood it's just frustrating at this point. It means that we like school. We are here for academics, and we like learning. People see us working all the time and they think our fun is dead. That's not true, we do have fun. It's just that on top of all the normal things we do for fun, we find school fun too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell, this is what sucks about Chicago social life. If you don't want to go to frat parties and get blasted, but you actually want to have fun during your college years, there's not a whole lot else to do.

Oh please.

I was only talking about in dorms. South and Max P people mostly don't make friends in their dorm through their houses and have to resort to dorm parties because there isn't much of a house culture there. That doesn't mean that's all they do. It means they make friends the way people do at every other school that doesn't have houses. Class, clubs, student organizations, etc. etc. Max P and South only part a lot in relation to other UChicago dorms. They're pretty much the same as dorms at other schools.

If someone thinks there isn't anything to do here they don't have an imagination.

First of all, there's the city of Chicago. There are tons of concerts (and the Symphony is like $15 for students). Museums (most of which are free with a student ID). There are interesting places to eat, neighborhoods to explore, parks to wander, architecture to look at, football, basketball, soccer, baseball and hockey games to attend and on and on. Then there's all the stuff to do on campus. Get involved in University Theater. Join any of the other dance teams, which range from ballroom to ballet to contemporary. There's like 5 acapella groups and a few different choirs. We have a UChicago Symphony and Chamber orchestra. Hack@uchicago organizes a party with free food every Friday where people hang out and talk and program. Do research (which many people find pretty fun). Join the Maroon or the South Side Weekly or, if you're sarcastic, the Shady Dealer or Off Off Campus (a comedy troupe that alumni of which created Second City). We have an ice rink on the midway. There are cheap films at Doc Films almost every day. Intramural sports get intense (look up Sportsfrolic or the annual Crown vs Alper broomball game). Go roofing with your friends. Sit around and debate philosophy until 5 am.

I couldn't even list all the things you can do for fun here. Our motto "where fun comes to die" is so frequently misunderstood it's just frustrating at this point. It means that we like school. We are here for academics, and we like learning. People see us working all the time and they think our fun is dead. That's not true, we do have fun. It's just that on top of all the normal things we do for fun, we find school fun too.

There are lots of other schools where the students work hard and like learning. It's just that on top of having fun doing that, they also have fun doing the normal things people do in college -- like going to parties. And, yes, of course, they go to movies, play sports, go to a capella concerts, etc., but, really most young people also enjoy parties. The complete lack of that kind of social life is why fun goes to die at UofC.