PARCC Comparison for MIDDLE SCHOOLS in MoCo and Upper Northwest

[Anonymous]

OP, thank you for doing this comparison. I am appalled at some of the PPs. Please ignore them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your analysis is indeed shaky. The fact hat you made the large leap by assuming mixed race means black/white and black/white kids at Deal fall into bad crowds (black) at Deal kind of threw it for me. You then go on to defend your not using other DC schools because guy said there were a handful of schools that aren't horrible. That's not the same as saying Brent is as good as Janney etc. You didn't even reference Ross (probably the best school in DC) and you didn't reference Shepherd (and adjust for demographics as you did with other school). My guess is because it's too black for you.

OP here.

You caught me. I'm a not-so-closeted racist. I've been trying to advance my white supremacy agenda by omitting certain schools from my volunteer analysis. I would have succeeded had your powers of discernment not caught me. Bravo to you. The community is much better for your presence and owes you a debt of gratitude. (Just to test your skill, I've hidden a message within this paragraph. See if you can find it.)

With the exception of Hearst, which was an omission, I chose the schools closest to the supposed best MoCo schools. (And for the MoCo schools, I chose the ones with data closest to DC.) My goal was to help inform someone considering moving to one side of the border or the other. There is no point in including Churchilll feeders since the peso looking to move into WCHS feeder zone is unlikely to be considering also staying inside the DC border.

I would compare Shephard to the Silver Spring schools, not the western MoCo schools since, again, they are geographically proximate.

You are welcome to perform analysis on any schools you choose. We will wait with bated breath.

As for mixed-race, I simply compared them. Lacking any data or credible knowledge about the potentially different composition of mixed-race families, this or omission are the only reasonable choices.

Problem is you didn't "simply compare" mixed race. You drew quite a huge inference.

I quote, "Finally, an odd note: multiple race (two or more) advanced math students perform better at the MoCo schools than at the DC schools. This may confirm the fears of parents of mixed-race children that their children fall into the “wrong” peer group when surrounded by a more diverse student body. It is certainly something worth monitoring going-forward."

Deal is more diverse (more black) and did worse in this category so you're assuming the mixed race kids at Deal hang around the wrong peer group (ie, all black kids) and therefore do poorly on tests. There is no way to get away from that statement.

I am a mom with a Black child and I worry that he will fall in the wrong peer group at Deal. I am just being realistic. This is after all D.C.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your analysis is indeed shaky. The fact hat you made the large leap by assuming mixed race means black/white and black/white kids at Deal fall into bad crowds (black) at Deal kind of threw it for me. You then go on to defend your not using other DC schools because guy said there were a handful of schools that aren't horrible. That's not the same as saying Brent is as good as Janney etc. You didn't even reference Ross (probably the best school in DC) and you didn't reference Shepherd (and adjust for demographics as you did with other school). My guess is because it's too black for you.

OP here.

You caught me. I'm a not-so-closeted racist. I've been trying to advance my white supremacy agenda by omitting certain schools from my volunteer analysis. I would have succeeded had your powers of discernment not caught me. Bravo to you. The community is much better for your presence and owes you a debt of gratitude. (Just to test your skill, I've hidden a message within this paragraph. See if you can find it.)

With the exception of Hearst, which was an omission, I chose the schools closest to the supposed best MoCo schools. (And for the MoCo schools, I chose the ones with data closest to DC.) My goal was to help inform someone considering moving to one side of the border or the other. There is no point in including Churchilll feeders since the peso looking to move into WCHS feeder zone is unlikely to be considering also staying inside the DC border.

I would compare Shephard to the Silver Spring schools, not the western MoCo schools since, again, they are geographically proximate.

You are welcome to perform analysis on any schools you choose. We will wait with bated breath.

As for mixed-race, I simply compared them. Lacking any data or credible knowledge about the potentially different composition of mixed-race families, this or omission are the only reasonable choices.

Problem is you didn't "simply compare" mixed race. You drew quite a huge inference.

I quote, "Finally, an odd note: multiple race (two or more) advanced math students perform better at the MoCo schools than at the DC schools. This may confirm the fears of parents of mixed-race children that their children fall into the “wrong” peer group when surrounded by a more diverse student body. It is certainly something worth monitoring going-forward."

Deal is more diverse (more black) and did worse in this category so you're assuming the mixed race kids at Deal hang around the wrong peer group (ie, all black kids) and therefore do poorly on tests. There is no way to get away from that statement.

OP here:

You seem to ignore the qualifiers. Nuance is relevant in life for people who don't see everything as black and white. (Or, in your case, black versus white.)

I said [emphases added]: ""Finally, an odd note: multiple race (two or more) advanced math students perform better at the MoCo schools than at the DC schools. This may confirm the fears of parents of mixed-race children that their children fall into the “wrong” peer group when surrounded by a more diverse student body. It is certainly something worth monitoring going-forward."

The bolded line is factual. There is no subtext, no meaning, no implications. It is merely a statement of fact. I then go on, in the next sentence, to guess at one possible implication. Purposefully, I used the word "may" (italized above) to emphasize that this is merely a conjecture and a continuation of the statement of fact.

Nonetheless, feel free to pick nits all you want. Don't let the big picture distract you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your analysis is indeed shaky. The fact hat you made the large leap by assuming mixed race means black/white and black/white kids at Deal fall into bad crowds (black) at Deal kind of threw it for me. You then go on to defend your not using other DC schools because guy said there were a handful of schools that aren't horrible. That's not the same as saying Brent is as good as Janney etc. You didn't even reference Ross (probably the best school in DC) and you didn't reference Shepherd (and adjust for demographics as you did with other school). My guess is because it's too black for you.

OP here.

You caught me. I'm a not-so-closeted racist. I've been trying to advance my white supremacy agenda by omitting certain schools from my volunteer analysis. I would have succeeded had your powers of discernment not caught me. Bravo to you. The community is much better for your presence and owes you a debt of gratitude. (Just to test your skill, I've hidden a message within this paragraph. See if you can find it.)

With the exception of Hearst, which was an omission, I chose the schools closest to the supposed best MoCo schools. (And for the MoCo schools, I chose the ones with data closest to DC.) My goal was to help inform someone considering moving to one side of the border or the other. There is no point in including Churchilll feeders since the peso looking to move into WCHS feeder zone is unlikely to be considering also staying inside the DC border.

I would compare Shephard to the Silver Spring schools, not the western MoCo schools since, again, they are geographically proximate.

You are welcome to perform analysis on any schools you choose. We will wait with bated breath.

As for mixed-race, I simply compared them. Lacking any data or credible knowledge about the potentially different composition of mixed-race families, this or omission are the only reasonable choices.

Problem is you didn't "simply compare" mixed race. You drew quite a huge inference.

I quote, "Finally, an odd note: multiple race (two or more) advanced math students perform better at the MoCo schools than at the DC schools. This may confirm the fears of parents of mixed-race children that their children fall into the “wrong” peer group when surrounded by a more diverse student body. It is certainly something worth monitoring going-forward."

Deal is more diverse (more black) and did worse in this category so you're assuming the mixed race kids at Deal hang around the wrong peer group (ie, all black kids) and therefore do poorly on tests. There is no way to get away from that statement.

I am a mom with a Black child and I worry that he will fall in the wrong peer group at Deal. I am just being realistic. This is after all D.C.

OP again. Thanks for the reply. I've personally heard this concern from black friends/colleagues. Expectations matter immensely in life: the differences in graduation rates between black DCPS students and white DCPS students (even at the same school) likely have real implications. (Graduation rates at Wilson for 2014 were 90% and 76% for whites and blacks, respectively.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your analysis is indeed shaky. The fact hat you made the large leap by assuming mixed race means black/white and black/white kids at Deal fall into bad crowds (black) at Deal kind of threw it for me. You then go on to defend your not using other DC schools because guy said there were a handful of schools that aren't horrible. That's not the same as saying Brent is as good as Janney etc. You didn't even reference Ross (probably the best school in DC) and you didn't reference Shepherd (and adjust for demographics as you did with other school). My guess is because it's too black for you.

OP here.

You caught me. I'm a not-so-closeted racist. I've been trying to advance my white supremacy agenda by omitting certain schools from my volunteer analysis. I would have succeeded had your powers of discernment not caught me. Bravo to you. The community is much better for your presence and owes you a debt of gratitude. (Just to test your skill, I've hidden a message within this paragraph. See if you can find it.)

With the exception of Hearst, which was an omission, I chose the schools closest to the supposed best MoCo schools. (And for the MoCo schools, I chose the ones with data closest to DC.) My goal was to help inform someone considering moving to one side of the border or the other. There is no point in including Churchilll feeders since the peso looking to move into WCHS feeder zone is unlikely to be considering also staying inside the DC border.

I would compare Shephard to the Silver Spring schools, not the western MoCo schools since, again, they are geographically proximate.

You are welcome to perform analysis on any schools you choose. We will wait with bated breath.

As for mixed-race, I simply compared them. Lacking any data or credible knowledge about the potentially different composition of mixed-race families, this or omission are the only reasonable choices.

Problem is you didn't "simply compare" mixed race. You drew quite a huge inference.

I quote, "Finally, an odd note: multiple race (two or more) advanced math students perform better at the MoCo schools than at the DC schools. This may confirm the fears of parents of mixed-race children that their children fall into the “wrong” peer group when surrounded by a more diverse student body. It is certainly something worth monitoring going-forward."

Deal is more diverse (more black) and did worse in this category so you're assuming the mixed race kids at Deal hang around the wrong peer group (ie, all black kids) and therefore do poorly on tests. There is no way to get away from that statement.

OP said it was an "odd note" and spoke about parents concerns about their mixed race children falling in with the wrong peer group in a more diverse student body. Sorry honey, but this is not chocolate city anymore. That is our concern and we are mixed Anglo and Latino, but our kid gets along just fine and feels at home with black kids as well. YOU are the one making huge assumptions here. The fact is, the less there is one "dominant" culture - white and high achieving, like Whitman, the easier it is for kids to go astray because there is a different culture available that seems more authentic or more appealing, and the first to fall are the minority students and mixed race students who feel alienated from the dominant culture anyway. Put a whole group of them together and then you get the pressure not to be an oreo, a banana, etc..............Crabs in a barrel. But they can be a lot of different colors and mixes of races. Not everything is about being black or even half black. Get over yourself. I have heard nothing racist from OP.

[Anonymous]

I don't think anyone called OP racist but merley stated his jump was wide. Especially when it was later insisted that insisted that Moco was more likely to be Asian/White. The possibilities of mixed race are almost endless so it's not very scientific to make any conclusion on that data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anyone called OP racist but merley stated his jump was wide. Especially when it was later insisted that insisted that Moco was more likely to be Asian/White. The possibilities of mixed race are almost endless so it's not very scientific to make any conclusion on that data.

OP here. (Real work starts soon, so I'll be replying sporadically, if at all, shortly.)

Would you have felt better if I would have acknowledged the following:

"I don't know about the composition of mixed-race children in DC versus MoCo. Implicitly, I assumed it was the same. This could be wrong, but I have no data either way. If the anecdotes are correct, and I have no reason to doubt them, then to the extent that mixed race students in MoCo are from a better-testing composition, it suggests that we should exclude the category from comparisons. The effect would be to improve Deal's standing relative to MoCo."

I did. That's my quote from immediately after a poster raised the point that the composition was different in DCPS versus MoCo. It's in the first page of this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anyone called OP racist but merley stated his jump was wide. Especially when it was later insisted that insisted that Moco was more likely to be Asian/White. The possibilities of mixed race are almost endless so it's not very scientific to make any conclusion on that data.

You are a whiner.

Don't fully convinced about OP's analysis.

Easy: do your own, and share it here, so we can compare.

[Anonymous]

OP, thank you, thank you, thank you.

I do not have quantitative skills and the econometricians I work with do not have kids in DCPS to my knowledge so probably would not be willing to take this on in their spare time.

I am appalled by the lack of appreciation for the work you you did. The data is out there and anyone will the right skill set can analyze it. So far, none of the whiners have and I have not seen an analysis that contradicts what you pulled together.

I don't think tests are the end all and be all of evaluating a school. That said, it is really helpful to have some objective data to compare the school systems that parents do try to compare regularly. My kids are in a JKLM and we live right at the MD border. When we moved here more than a decade ago, I was planning to move to MoCo by middle school. We revisited that when Deal became the draw that it is today. People that are not in DCPS have a hard time comprehending that a DCPS school could be comparable to MoCo public.

[Anonymous]

Quick questions as I'm not a stat person either. How can you say "if Deal's demographics were the same...?"

[Anonymous]

Compute individual performance metrics for each subgroup. E.g., what percentage of white students scored a 4 or 5? What percentage of hispanic students scored a 4 or 5?

Next, get composition data for each school. E.g., at Pyle 76% of test takers were white, 1.8% were black, etc.

Compute an aggregate school measure where the performance data is is the % scoring a 4 or 5 in that subgroup at Deal and the weight is the % of test takers in that subgroup at Pyle. Then add these products for each subgroup together. Do this for each school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your analysis is indeed shaky. The fact hat you made the large leap by assuming mixed race means black/white and black/white kids at Deal fall into bad crowds (black) at Deal kind of threw it for me. You then go on to defend your not using other DC schools because guy said there were a handful of schools that aren't horrible. That's not the same as saying Brent is as good as Janney etc. You didn't even reference Ross (probably the best school in DC) and you didn't reference Shepherd (and adjust for demographics as you did with other school). My guess is because it's too black for you.

OP here.

You caught me. I'm a not-so-closeted racist. I've been trying to advance my white supremacy agenda by omitting certain schools from my volunteer analysis. I would have succeeded had your powers of discernment not caught me. Bravo to you. The community is much better for your presence and owes you a debt of gratitude. (Just to test your skill, I've hidden a message within this paragraph. See if you can find it.)

With the exception of Hearst, which was an omission, I chose the schools closest to the supposed best MoCo schools. (And for the MoCo schools, I chose the ones with data closest to DC.) My goal was to help inform someone considering moving to one side of the border or the other. There is no point in including Churchilll feeders since the peso looking to move into WCHS feeder zone is unlikely to be considering also staying inside the DC border.

I would compare Shephard to the Silver Spring schools, not the western MoCo schools since, again, they are geographically proximate.

You are welcome to perform analysis on any schools you choose. We will wait with bated breath.

As for mixed-race, I simply compared them. Lacking any data or credible knowledge about the potentially different composition of mixed-race families, this or omission are the only reasonable choices.

Problem is you didn't "simply compare" mixed race. You drew quite a huge inference.

I quote, "Finally, an odd note: multiple race (two or more) advanced math students perform better at the MoCo schools than at the DC schools. This may confirm the fears of parents of mixed-race children that their children fall into the “wrong” peer group when surrounded by a more diverse student body. It is certainly something worth monitoring going-forward."

Deal is more diverse (more black) and did worse in this category so you're assuming the mixed race kids at Deal hang around the wrong peer group (ie, all black kids) and therefore do poorly on tests. There is no way to get away from that statement.

You do realize that most AA are of mixed race!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your analysis is indeed shaky. The fact hat you made the large leap by assuming mixed race means black/white and black/white kids at Deal fall into bad crowds (black) at Deal kind of threw it for me. You then go on to defend your not using other DC schools because guy said there were a handful of schools that aren't horrible. That's not the same as saying Brent is as good as Janney etc. You didn't even reference Ross (probably the best school in DC) and you didn't reference Shepherd (and adjust for demographics as you did with other school). My guess is because it's too black for you.

OP here.

You caught me. I'm a not-so-closeted racist. I've been trying to advance my white supremacy agenda by omitting certain schools from my volunteer analysis. I would have succeeded had your powers of discernment not caught me. Bravo to you. The community is much better for your presence and owes you a debt of gratitude. (Just to test your skill, I've hidden a message within this paragraph. See if you can find it.)

With the exception of Hearst, which was an omission, I chose the schools closest to the supposed best MoCo schools. (And for the MoCo schools, I chose the ones with data closest to DC.) My goal was to help inform someone considering moving to one side of the border or the other. There is no point in including Churchilll feeders since the peso looking to move into WCHS feeder zone is unlikely to be considering also staying inside the DC border.

I would compare Shephard to the Silver Spring schools, not the western MoCo schools since, again, they are geographically proximate.

You are welcome to perform analysis on any schools you choose. We will wait with bated breath.

As for mixed-race, I simply compared them. Lacking any data or credible knowledge about the potentially different composition of mixed-race families, this or omission are the only reasonable choices.

Problem is you didn't "simply compare" mixed race. You drew quite a huge inference.

I quote, "Finally, an odd note: multiple race (two or more) advanced math students perform better at the MoCo schools than at the DC schools. This may confirm the fears of parents of mixed-race children that their children fall into the “wrong” peer group when surrounded by a more diverse student body. It is certainly something worth monitoring going-forward."

Deal is more diverse (more black) and did worse in this category so you're assuming the mixed race kids at Deal hang around the wrong peer group (ie, all black kids) and therefore do poorly on tests. There is no way to get away from that statement.

You do realize that most AA are of mixed race!

NP. Sure, but they don't check mixed race on box. You're being obtuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Compute individual performance metrics for each subgroup. E.g., what percentage of white students scored a 4 or 5? What percentage of hispanic students scored a 4 or 5?

Next, get composition data for each school. E.g., at Pyle 76% of test takers were white, 1.8% were black, etc.

Compute an aggregate school measure where the performance data is is the % scoring a 4 or 5 in that subgroup at Deal and the weight is the % of test takers in that subgroup at Pyle. Then add these products for each subgroup together. Do this for each school.

Wouldn't it be easier to compare the scores of each subgroup?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your analysis is indeed shaky. The fact hat you made the large leap by assuming mixed race means black/white and black/white kids at Deal fall into bad crowds (black) at Deal kind of threw it for me. You then go on to defend your not using other DC schools because guy said there were a handful of schools that aren't horrible. That's not the same as saying Brent is as good as Janney etc. You didn't even reference Ross (probably the best school in DC) and you didn't reference Shepherd (and adjust for demographics as you did with other school). My guess is because it's too black for you.

OP here.

You caught me. I'm a not-so-closeted racist. I've been trying to advance my white supremacy agenda by omitting certain schools from my volunteer analysis. I would have succeeded had your powers of discernment not caught me. Bravo to you. The community is much better for your presence and owes you a debt of gratitude. (Just to test your skill, I've hidden a message within this paragraph. See if you can find it.)

With the exception of Hearst, which was an omission, I chose the schools closest to the supposed best MoCo schools. (And for the MoCo schools, I chose the ones with data closest to DC.) My goal was to help inform someone considering moving to one side of the border or the other. There is no point in including Churchilll feeders since the peso looking to move into WCHS feeder zone is unlikely to be considering also staying inside the DC border.

I would compare Shephard to the Silver Spring schools, not the western MoCo schools since, again, they are geographically proximate.

You are welcome to perform analysis on any schools you choose. We will wait with bated breath.

As for mixed-race, I simply compared them. Lacking any data or credible knowledge about the potentially different composition of mixed-race families, this or omission are the only reasonable choices.

Problem is you didn't "simply compare" mixed race. You drew quite a huge inference.

I quote, "Finally, an odd note: multiple race (two or more) advanced math students perform better at the MoCo schools than at the DC schools. This may confirm the fears of parents of mixed-race children that their children fall into the “wrong” peer group when surrounded by a more diverse student body. It is certainly something worth monitoring going-forward."

Deal is more diverse (more black) and did worse in this category so you're assuming the mixed race kids at Deal hang around the wrong peer group (ie, all black kids) and therefore do poorly on tests. There is no way to get away from that statement.

You do realize that most AA are of mixed race!

NP. Sure, but they don't check mixed race on box. You're being obtuse.

The Census should start counting Obtuse Americans.

So many of them, yet so systematically overlooked.