School uniforms are negatively correlated with student performance

[Anonymous]

NCS does not have a uniform or dress code after middle school. And they should .....

[Anonymous]

In DC, student uniforms are related to schools trying to decrease student distraction due to performance concerns. So telling us that they correlate negatively with high performance is not news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teeny bopper made in china clothing manufacturers don't like school uniforms.

Less money wasted on the slave china labor and their scum government.

The Chinese government is laughing at American stupidity.

All our uniforms are mad right here in America (Marianas) ... Not. Check your labels. Clothes are increasingly made in places like the Philippines and Malaysia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The relationship is starkly clear in DC. Schools without uniforms are at the top of every performance metric. It can't be a coincidence. It's not just income related because lower income students in schools without uniforms do better than students with similar incomes in schools with uniforms.

OP, I think it's great that you've suddenly decided to take an interest in statistics. It's good to understand the facts that get presented to us on a regular basis and learn to interpret them a bit more cannily than the average bear. One thing you will learn in your study is that when you are considering something like "student performance" it's helpful to be really specific about what you mean. Do you mean "higher test scores"? Do you mean "fewer disciplinary actions"? Do you mean "better educational outcomes" and if so, over what time period?

It's also helpful to think about data that may disprove your hypothesis. If you are suggesting, for example, that students who wear uniforms have poor educational outcomes overall, and that the uniform is directly responsible for those outcomes, consider that professional athletes, members of the military, and many other professions wear "uniforms." In some cases, the uniform is a good delineator of group membership - an athlete whose team wears red and white can generally recognize other players wearing that uniform as being on their team, and players wearing blue and yellow as not being on that team. There is also the other side of that particular argument, which could be made by saying that criminal gangs also use uniforms to distinguish between members and non-members. Crips wore/wear blue, for example, while Bloods wore/wear red.

You also have the issue of dress codes, which are less rigidly enforced uniforms. The dress codes at DC private schools, for example, may actually be stricter than the uniform policy at my DD's Title 1 school. Lawyers tend to wear suits, which is certainly a kind of uniform. When we are invited to a wedding, we do not tend to wear jeans and flip flops, because we understand, socially, that a certain type of attire is required for certain situations.

My point is that a lot of things are correlated with poor educational outcomes, whether those be in the form of test scores or discipline, and if you want your statement to carry any actual meaning, you should probably be more specific about the strength of the correlation, rather than simply its negative orientation. Are uniforms more strongly correlated with poor educational outcomes, for example, than family educational history? Than income level? Than race? Than geographic location?

Standing ovation. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Hardy is the most glaring example of DCPS uniforms, as the only public school west of Rock Creek Park to require them. And ii believe it has the lowest IB percentage of any public school WOTP. The recent Wa Po article on public school uniforms was telling. They became faddishly popular in some education circles in the 80s and 90s as a way of instilling discipline in chaotic, violence-prone, poverty plagued, urban schools. Even President Clinton hopefully endorsed them in the 90s as a means to reduce gang violence in schools. No one has mentioned a current gang problem and chaos at Hardy, but is this really the legacy and association that the school wants to embrace? It's a big turn off for Ward 3 parents and students that the school is supposed to want to recruit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NCS does not have a uniform or dress code after middle school. And they should .....

It's fine to cite the fact that some prestigious private schools require uniforms. But the history and connotations of uniforms in urban public schools are very different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCS does not have a uniform or dress code after middle school. And they should .....

It's fine to cite the fact that some prestigious private schools require uniforms. But the history and connotations of uniforms in urban public schools are very different.

The OP's suggestion was apparently that the uniform is responsible for the poor student performance. If that were the case, the "prestigious private schools" would see similarly poor performance. Since they do not, I think we can safely conclude that other factors, such as poverty, are responsible for poor performance and that the existence of uniforms in both situations is incidental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The relationship is starkly clear in DC. Schools without uniforms are at the top of every performance metric. It can't be a coincidence. It's not just income related because lower income students in schools without uniforms do better than students with similar incomes in schools with uniforms.

what DC schools are at the “top of [any] performance metric? That’s like being the tallest kid in your first grade class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teeny bopper made in china clothing manufacturers don't like school uniforms.

Less money wasted on the slave china labor and their scum government.

The Chinese government is laughing at American stupidity.

I'm sure that argument will persuade families at Janney and Deal to impose a uniform.

They would see uniforms as too ghetto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, because kids at National Cathedral School and St. Alban's are really underperforming because of the uniforms.

Silly argument.

St Alban's doesn't have a uniform.

a dress code, same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sunrise is positively correlated with Egg Mcmuffins.

judging by the massively enthusiastic response to McD's selling breakfast all day this may in fact be true

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCS does not have a uniform or dress code after middle school. And they should .....

It's fine to cite the fact that some prestigious private schools require uniforms. But the history and connotations of uniforms in urban public schools are very different.

The OP's suggestion was apparently that the uniform is responsible for the poor student performance. If that were the case, the "prestigious private schools" would see similarly poor performance. Since they do not, I think we can safely conclude that other factors, such as poverty, are responsible for poor performance and that the existence of uniforms in both situations is incidental.

Or that public uniforms correlate also with schools having a general lack of discipline, gang activity, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, because kids at National Cathedral School and St. Alban's are really underperforming because of the uniforms.

Silly argument.

St Alban's doesn't have a uniform.

a dress code, same thing.

most schools have dress codes of some sort even where uniforms are not in effect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sunrise is positively correlated with Egg Mcmuffins.

judging by the massively enthusiastic response to McD's selling breakfast all day this may in fact be true

Or not, when one can get an Egg McM at 3 a.m.!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hardy is the most glaring example of DCPS uniforms, as the only public school west of Rock Creek Park to require them. And ii believe it has the lowest IB percentage of any public school WOTP. The recent Wa Po article on public school uniforms was telling. They became faddishly popular in some education circles in the 80s and 90s as a way of instilling discipline in chaotic, violence-prone, poverty plagued, urban schools. Even President Clinton hopefully endorsed them in the 90s as a means to reduce gang violence in schools. No one has mentioned a current gang problem and chaos at Hardy, but is this really the legacy and association that the school wants to embrace? It's a big turn off for Ward 3 parents and students that the school is supposed to want to recruit.

we can't have Deal for All, but we can at least have Deal's 'no uniform' policy