Garrison Renovation - when will it start?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in the neighborhood and truly believe that more local parents (there are MANY with babies and toddlers) would send their children to Garrison if it was modernized. Remember the old Watha T. Daniel Library - just a few blocks away - before it was redone? It looked like a prison, was not an inviting place and didn't get a lot of traffic from people with children. Once it was redone local parents flocked to the library and actually chose to use this beautiful modern facility. Garrison is so depressing looking that some folks just can't get past the exterior appearance. When you see broken playground equipment, windows with bars, overgrown shrubs, old a/c units and a dumpster outside of the front of the school, it doesn't send a great message. The school is actually much nicer on the interior than one would expect, but unfortunately, folks judge it from its exterior, run down playing fields and chain link fences in need of repair.

I agree. I notice that Garrison doesn't have a high turnover rate among the staff and it seems the principals is trying to find the right combination of teachers to bring the test scores up. He has a lot on his plate (as do all DCPS principals) but he seems to be in it for the long haul and that says a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Garrison may have been loud but we have gotten NoThIng, so believe me no one else was bumped to take care of Garrison. There has been zero done.

Agreed. It's gotten less than nothing as the broken promises have had families silently fleeing at the earliest opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest. Garrison needs a modernization. So do lots of other schools and several of them have far more serious needs than Garrison. It shouldn't be this bad, but it is.

Far from being ignored, Garrison and its community have pulled together, represented themselves incredibly well, and received more political and media attention than possibly any other school in the city on this issue. Some schools with incredible needs were delayed because Garrison was moved up in the modernization queue and promised a full modernization several years ago.

Meanwhile, families all over the city feel like DCPS doesn't care where they send their children to school, but somehow Garrison keeps being portrayed as a martyr. DC schools are not as strong as they should be and many are not in the condition they should be. The Garrison community should continue pushing for what they need, but should stop acting as if they are the only school not getting what it needs. It makes them sound a little tone deaf.

This^^^

I posted the following in the other thread, but it belongs here. I am sorry to be argumentative, but I consistently see Garrison boosters ignoring the very low enrollment in these threads. Many other DCPS schools have facilities as poor as Garrison yet at capacity or over-capacity. There were good reasons for closing Garrison, and the weak enrollment since the reversal of that decision has vindicated those reasons, hasn't it? I think the city is probably waiting for everyone to attend, after they pushed so hard to keep the school open. Here is my post from the other thread:

New poster here. If you search the threads you can read about the history. The area around Garrison gentrified incredibly and is one of the least affordable areas of the city. Few families can afford to live IB and those that do, tend to be the kind that will exercise their "school choice". Only a few years ago Garrison was (less than?) half full and the city moved to close it. A group of neighbors rallied and the city kept it open. Now the neighbors want the school fully modernized even though IB attendance is low, OOB interest is weak, and the school is around 2/3 of capacity now.

Meanwhile, there are a number of ESs in the city with old facilities and rapidly growing enrollment, long wait lists, bursting at the seams.

I wish the best for actual Garrison families, sincerely. As for the "make it better, and we will attend" lobby, I empathize with you, but that's rarely how it works in DC. Maybe for some high schools that the city sees as strategic for whatever reason, but not for an elementary school that they wanted to close due to low attendance just a few years ago. You might have to make the first move and attend, especially because you convinced DC to keep the school open.

Just my two cents.

Yeah, in theory I agree with all of this. But.... this is going to piss people off by my saying it.... spending money to renovate Garrison would be better bang for your buck for DCPS. Why? If you modernize a crappy overcapacity school in SE, it's going to make day to day better there but my understanding is that it's not going to miraculously improve test scores or give those kids a better shot at life. And it's not going to suddenly create a flurry of interest in a school either, because well, those are the schools people go to because that's where you live and you have no other options.

You spend the money on Garrison, and it will send a not so subtle message to the community of high SES parents that "now" is the right time for everyone to start sending their kids there. Right now, everyone kind of wants to give garrison a try, but not unless they know the other high SES parents are going at the same time. A renovation will be the light under the fire that creates a mass momentum. The school is at low capacity so the increased enrollment isn't at the detriment of anyone else. And in fact, I believe it's a fairly agreed upon principle that poorly performing kids who are exposed to higher performing kids benefit from the exposure. So the whole "everyone's boat is lifted" thing. The rich kids who weren't attending Garrison before but now attend create two other positives: (1) parents don't flee to the suburbs, which is good for tax base, community involvement and a host of other positives, and (2) leave more spots open in the charters for other kids.

It's a crappy way of thinking about it, and not particularly fair, but it's probably a more efficient allocation of resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest. Garrison needs a modernization. So do lots of other schools and several of them have far more serious needs than Garrison. It shouldn't be this bad, but it is.

Far from being ignored, Garrison and its community have pulled together, represented themselves incredibly well, and received more political and media attention than possibly any other school in the city on this issue. Some schools with incredible needs were delayed because Garrison was moved up in the modernization queue and promised a full modernization several years ago.

Meanwhile, families all over the city feel like DCPS doesn't care where they send their children to school, but somehow Garrison keeps being portrayed as a martyr. DC schools are not as strong as they should be and many are not in the condition they should be. The Garrison community should continue pushing for what they need, but should stop acting as if they are the only school not getting what it needs. It makes them sound a little tone deaf.

This^^^

I posted the following in the other thread, but it belongs here. I am sorry to be argumentative, but I consistently see Garrison boosters ignoring the very low enrollment in these threads. Many other DCPS schools have facilities as poor as Garrison yet at capacity or over-capacity. There were good reasons for closing Garrison, and the weak enrollment since the reversal of that decision has vindicated those reasons, hasn't it? I think the city is probably waiting for everyone to attend, after they pushed so hard to keep the school open. Here is my post from the other thread:

New poster here. If you search the threads you can read about the history. The area around Garrison gentrified incredibly and is one of the least affordable areas of the city. Few families can afford to live IB and those that do, tend to be the kind that will exercise their "school choice". Only a few years ago Garrison was (less than?) half full and the city moved to close it. A group of neighbors rallied and the city kept it open. Now the neighbors want the school fully modernized even though IB attendance is low, OOB interest is weak, and the school is around 2/3 of capacity now.

Meanwhile, there are a number of ESs in the city with old facilities and rapidly growing enrollment, long wait lists, bursting at the seams.

I wish the best for actual Garrison families, sincerely. As for the "make it better, and we will attend" lobby, I empathize with you, but that's rarely how it works in DC. Maybe for some high schools that the city sees as strategic for whatever reason, but not for an elementary school that they wanted to close due to low attendance just a few years ago. You might have to make the first move and attend, especially because you convinced DC to keep the school open.

Just my two cents.

Yeah, in theory I agree with all of this. But.... this is going to piss people off by my saying it.... spending money to renovate Garrison would be better bang for your buck for DCPS. Why? If you modernize a crappy overcapacity school in SE, it's going to make day to day better there but my understanding is that it's not going to miraculously improve test scores or give those kids a better shot at life. And it's not going to suddenly create a flurry of interest in a school either, because well, those are the schools people go to because that's where you live and you have no other options.

You spend the money on Garrison, and it will send a not so subtle message to the community of high SES parents that "now" is the right time for everyone to start sending their kids there. Right now, everyone kind of wants to give garrison a try, but not unless they know the other high SES parents are going at the same time. A renovation will be the light under the fire that creates a mass momentum. The school is at low capacity so the increased enrollment isn't at the detriment of anyone else. And in fact, I believe it's a fairly agreed upon principle that poorly performing kids who are exposed to higher performing kids benefit from the exposure. So the whole "everyone's boat is lifted" thing. The rich kids who weren't attending Garrison before but now attend create two other positives: (1) parents don't flee to the suburbs, which is good for tax base, community involvement and a host of other positives, and (2) leave more spots open in the charters for other kids.

It's a crappy way of thinking about it, and not particularly fair, but it's probably a more efficient allocation of resources.

That's pretty much where you could have ended it.

[Anonymous]

There is no way in hell that the Charter lobby is going to let the city renovate Garrison. They have a stranglehold over the 500 kids that live in-boundary -- and they intend to maintain it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no way in hell that the Charter lobby is going to let the city renovate Garrison. They have a stranglehold over the 500 kids that live in-boundary -- and they intend to maintain it.

?!? When did charters have any say in which DCPS building gets renovated.

Agree though there is no way in hell we would change to Garrison (IB) from our charter at this point since we have been at the charter for 5 yrs and will be finishing out elementary school there and continue into ms. Garrison looks even worse than it did when we looked at it for preschool and feeds into where for middle school? Cardoza?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no way in hell that the Charter lobby is going to let the city renovate Garrison. They have a stranglehold over the 500 kids that live in-boundary -- and they intend to maintain it.

As a charter school parent, I can tell you the "charter school lobby" cares just as little about the kids in mid-city as DCPS does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest. Garrison needs a modernization. So do lots of other schools and several of them have far more serious needs than Garrison. It shouldn't be this bad, but it is.

Far from being ignored, Garrison and its community have pulled together, represented themselves incredibly well, and received more political and media attention than possibly any other school in the city on this issue. Some schools with incredible needs were delayed because Garrison was moved up in the modernization queue and promised a full modernization several years ago.

Meanwhile, families all over the city feel like DCPS doesn't care where they send their children to school, but somehow Garrison keeps being portrayed as a martyr. DC schools are not as strong as they should be and many are not in the condition they should be. The Garrison community should continue pushing for what they need, but should stop acting as if they are the only school not getting what it needs. It makes them sound a little tone deaf.

This^^^

I posted the following in the other thread, but it belongs here. I am sorry to be argumentative, but I consistently see Garrison boosters ignoring the very low enrollment in these threads. Many other DCPS schools have facilities as poor as Garrison yet at capacity or over-capacity. There were good reasons for closing Garrison, and the weak enrollment since the reversal of that decision has vindicated those reasons, hasn't it? I think the city is probably waiting for everyone to attend, after they pushed so hard to keep the school open. Here is my post from the other thread:

New poster here. If you search the threads you can read about the history. The area around Garrison gentrified incredibly and is one of the least affordable areas of the city. Few families can afford to live IB and those that do, tend to be the kind that will exercise their "school choice". Only a few years ago Garrison was (less than?) half full and the city moved to close it. A group of neighbors rallied and the city kept it open. Now the neighbors want the school fully modernized even though IB attendance is low, OOB interest is weak, and the school is around 2/3 of capacity now.

Meanwhile, there are a number of ESs in the city with old facilities and rapidly growing enrollment, long wait lists, bursting at the seams.

I wish the best for actual Garrison families, sincerely. As for the "make it better, and we will attend" lobby, I empathize with you, but that's rarely how it works in DC. Maybe for some high schools that the city sees as strategic for whatever reason, but not for an elementary school that they wanted to close due to low attendance just a few years ago. You might have to make the first move and attend, especially because you convinced DC to keep the school open.

Just my two cents.

Yeah, in theory I agree with all of this. But.... this is going to piss people off by my saying it.... spending money to renovate Garrison would be better bang for your buck for DCPS. Why? If you modernize a crappy overcapacity school in SE, it's going to make day to day better there but my understanding is that it's not going to miraculously improve test scores or give those kids a better shot at life. And it's not going to suddenly create a flurry of interest in a school either, because well, those are the schools people go to because that's where you live and you have no other options.

You spend the money on Garrison, and it will send a not so subtle message to the community of high SES parents that "now" is the right time for everyone to start sending their kids there. Right now, everyone kind of wants to give garrison a try, but not unless they know the other high SES parents are going at the same time. A renovation will be the light under the fire that creates a mass momentum. The school is at low capacity so the increased enrollment isn't at the detriment of anyone else. And in fact, I believe it's a fairly agreed upon principle that poorly performing kids who are exposed to higher performing kids benefit from the exposure. So the whole "everyone's boat is lifted" thing. The rich kids who weren't attending Garrison before but now attend create two other positives: (1) parents don't flee to the suburbs, which is good for tax base, community involvement and a host of other positives, and (2) leave more spots open in the charters for other kids.

It's a crappy way of thinking about it, and not particularly fair, but it's probably a more efficient allocation of resources.

That's pretty much where you could have ended it.

It doesn't surprise me to hear this argument, although I think it is far worse than "a crappy way of thinking about it." I am sure you are not alone in thinking that it makes sense to give a bunch of privileged families a new school because they think the current school is too ugly for their children to attend. Meanwhile, some of those other schools aren't just "crappy," they are unsafe and should be shut down. Too many people think like this, however, so I have come to agree with others that the better discussion isn't what school should go first, but how to make it a higher priority for the city to make all its school buildings fit for kids to be in every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no way in hell that the Charter lobby is going to let the city renovate Garrison. They have a stranglehold over the 500 kids that live in-boundary -- and they intend to maintain it.

As a charter school parent, I can tell you the "charter school lobby" cares just as little about the kids in mid-city as DCPS does.

Charter schools care about (and brag about and profit from) market share. Given the changing demographics of DC the only way for them to continue to gain on DCPS is to attract the children of gentrifiers. Therefore it is entirely in their interest to have these increasingly affluent neighborhoods with growing families like Logan Circle deprived of a neighborhood school.

Heck, even if they go to DCPS, the parents in the neighborhood will have been indoctrinated to the "school choice" bandwagon without even realizing it.

So there may not be a lobby, but unrenovated schools are a panacea to charters that want to grow. Even better if their new clients are the offspring of the college-educated.

Charters are in it to win it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest. Garrison needs a modernization. So do lots of other schools and several of them have far more serious needs than Garrison. It shouldn't be this bad, but it is.

Far from being ignored, Garrison and its community have pulled together, represented themselves incredibly well, and received more political and media attention than possibly any other school in the city on this issue. Some schools with incredible needs were delayed because Garrison was moved up in the modernization queue and promised a full modernization several years ago.

Meanwhile, families all over the city feel like DCPS doesn't care where they send their children to school, but somehow Garrison keeps being portrayed as a martyr. DC schools are not as strong as they should be and many are not in the condition they should be. The Garrison community should continue pushing for what they need, but should stop acting as if they are the only school not getting what it needs. It makes them sound a little tone deaf.

Actually, this isn't true. A few years ago, a review of DCPS facilities found that three ESs were in most dire need of modernization: Murch, Garrison, and Orr.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest. Garrison needs a modernization. So do lots of other schools and several of them have far more serious needs than Garrison. It shouldn't be this bad, but it is.

Far from being ignored, Garrison and its community have pulled together, represented themselves incredibly well, and received more political and media attention than possibly any other school in the city on this issue. Some schools with incredible needs were delayed because Garrison was moved up in the modernization queue and promised a full modernization several years ago.

Meanwhile, families all over the city feel like DCPS doesn't care where they send their children to school, but somehow Garrison keeps being portrayed as a martyr. DC schools are not as strong as they should be and many are not in the condition they should be. The Garrison community should continue pushing for what they need, but should stop acting as if they are the only school not getting what it needs. It makes them sound a little tone deaf.

Actually, this isn't true. A few years ago, a review of DCPS facilities found that three ESs were in most dire need of modernization: Murch, Garrison, and Orr.

Check the other Garrison thread. There is a link to the most recent education budget. There are 10-20 schools in worse shape than Garrison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no way in hell that the Charter lobby is going to let the city renovate Garrison. They have a stranglehold over the 500 kids that live in-boundary -- and they intend to maintain it.

As a charter school parent, I can tell you the "charter school lobby" cares just as little about the kids in mid-city as DCPS does.

Charter schools care about (and brag about and profit from) market share. Given the changing demographics of DC the only way for them to continue to gain on DCPS is to attract the children of gentrifiers. Therefore it is entirely in their interest to have these increasingly affluent neighborhoods with growing families like Logan Circle deprived of a neighborhood school.

Heck, even if they go to DCPS, the parents in the neighborhood will have been indoctrinated to the "school choice" bandwagon without even realizing it.

So there may not be a lobby, but unrenovated schools are a panacea to charters that want to grow. Even better if their new clients are the offspring of the college-educated.

Charters are in it to win it.

First, school choice is more than just choice. Any DCPS parent that uses the OOB lottery is participating in choice. If you are not in your IB school, you are making a choice.

Second, are you saying that only charter school parents are collage educated? You must not be familiar with charter schools in DC. Or, else you only think of schools like CMI and YY when you think of charter schools. There are almost 100 charter school programs in DC. Many, if most, cater to families who are lower income and minority. Get out of the bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest. Garrison needs a modernization. So do lots of other schools and several of them have far more serious needs than Garrison. It shouldn't be this bad, but it is.

Far from being ignored, Garrison and its community have pulled together, represented themselves incredibly well, and received more political and media attention than possibly any other school in the city on this issue. Some schools with incredible needs were delayed because Garrison was moved up in the modernization queue and promised a full modernization several years ago.

Meanwhile, families all over the city feel like DCPS doesn't care where they send their children to school, but somehow Garrison keeps being portrayed as a martyr. DC schools are not as strong as they should be and many are not in the condition they should be. The Garrison community should continue pushing for what they need, but should stop acting as if they are the only school not getting what it needs. It makes them sound a little tone deaf.

Actually, this isn't true. A few years ago, a review of DCPS facilities found that three ESs were in most dire need of modernization: Murch, Garrison, and Orr.

Check the other Garrison thread. There is a link to the most recent education budget. There are 10-20 schools in worse shape than Garrison.

Um, no--that's according to Grosso's new "system" which is highly, highly flawed and relied on inaccurate data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest. Garrison needs a modernization. So do lots of other schools and several of them have far more serious needs than Garrison. It shouldn't be this bad, but it is.

Far from being ignored, Garrison and its community have pulled together, represented themselves incredibly well, and received more political and media attention than possibly any other school in the city on this issue. Some schools with incredible needs were delayed because Garrison was moved up in the modernization queue and promised a full modernization several years ago.

Meanwhile, families all over the city feel like DCPS doesn't care where they send their children to school, but somehow Garrison keeps being portrayed as a martyr. DC schools are not as strong as they should be and many are not in the condition they should be. The Garrison community should continue pushing for what they need, but should stop acting as if they are the only school not getting what it needs. It makes them sound a little tone deaf.

Actually, this isn't true. A few years ago, a review of DCPS facilities found that three ESs were in most dire need of modernization: Murch, Garrison, and Orr.

Check the other Garrison thread. There is a link to the most recent education budget. There are 10-20 schools in worse shape than Garrison.

Um, no--that's according to Grosso's new "system" which is highly, highly flawed and relied on inaccurate data.

Um, care to provide explanations, data, or even links to explanations or data? Otherwise I am inclined to believe Grosso whose attempts to bring objective criteria to DCPS capital planning are far more serious than any in the past. It used to be, whoever yells loudest, gets modernized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's be honest. Garrison needs a modernization. So do lots of other schools and several of them have far more serious needs than Garrison. It shouldn't be this bad, but it is.

Far from being ignored, Garrison and its community have pulled together, represented themselves incredibly well, and received more political and media attention than possibly any other school in the city on this issue. Some schools with incredible needs were delayed because Garrison was moved up in the modernization queue and promised a full modernization several years ago.

Meanwhile, families all over the city feel like DCPS doesn't care where they send their children to school, but somehow Garrison keeps being portrayed as a martyr. DC schools are not as strong as they should be and many are not in the condition they should be. The Garrison community should continue pushing for what they need, but should stop acting as if they are the only school not getting what it needs. It makes them sound a little tone deaf.

Actually, this isn't true. A few years ago, a review of DCPS facilities found that three ESs were in most dire need of modernization: Murch, Garrison, and Orr.

Your point doesn't really help your argument because Murch and Orr were ranked lower in that study than Garrison and they are still waiting too. Although, since you mention it, wasn't Garrison to be closed at that point, but remained open and had funds allocated for a full modernization, at the same time Murch and Orr were pushed back?