Means Testing for DC TAG

[Anonymous]

Just to clarify: the average in-state tuition fee across the country is around 10K, while the average out-of-state tuition charge runs around 25K. The higher figures people are throwing around reflect the average cost of attendance--that is, tuition plus room, board, books, transportation, insurance and activities fees.

I would be fine with means-testing DC TAG if the program grants would come closer to meeting the difference between in-state and out-of state tuition. At UMCP, for example, a full DC TAG grant of 10K would cover less than half of the 22K difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TAG falls outside the mandate of universal education, so I'm OK with this.

If you earn more than $450,000 and don't feel your child is being challenged enough by the public schools, you have the means to go private. Since your kid is smart enough to get TAG resources anyway, admission shouldn't be a problem. Just pay the tuition.

This is the DC Schools forum, not VA Schools forum. "DC TAG" is not "TAG".

Thanks. i was a little confused by PPs statement LOlL

[Anonymous]

We ar no where near 450k HHI. However I expect that by the time my rising fifth grader is ready for college, the means test will be lowered to our HHI of 240k. OOS of tuition, room, board, and books will more than likely exceed 70k versus IS rates. Of 35k. We are planning to cross the regional border and DC will attend one of the many state schools for undergrad. We do not plan on DC graduating from college with a school loan the size of s mortgage, and we do not intend on failing to plan for retirement to supplement OOS tuition. But honestly, this was my planl One before the means test for TAG, as 10k was simply not enough to offset the difference. The means test just provides me with more motivation to make the move earlier than later. The easier commute in obtaining our current income is what has anchored me to the city far too long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Big picture -- DC does not have a public higher education system option, unlike every state in the Union. There are no means tests for in-state tuition at any state schools, even if income would impact potential financial aid.

Just because the bar is set somewhat high does not mean that a bar should be set at all. The purpose of DCTAG is to provide DC residents with a comparable public/regional school option that does not otherwise exist. It's not intended as a giveaway, and it pales in comparison to the enormous federal subsidies the feds already provide to higher education in various forms (loans, grants, trusts, etc). DC students get hit twice -- once by not have the lower cost public option and secondly by being forced to pay a premium out out of state schools. DC TAG offsets this inequity. It should be retained, if not expanded to keep up with the inflationary costs of out of state tuition.

+1 DC students should be granted in state tuition rates in every state. Period. There aren't that many of us and we have no state school option and no voting rights. There shouldn't be means testing at any level, since there isn't means testing for in-state schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, it's hard to cry about people who make >$450k failing to qualify. Obviously, they can afford whatever college their kid can get into. How many people does this really affect? BUT I oppose it. Do states means test their residents for in state tuition? No. It sounds like the beginning of the end of TAG. I just missed having that option for college & I'll be pissed if my kids don't have it, either.

You are sorely mistaken. 450 comes to about 250 after tax. That's great, don't get me wrong, but college kills that. A school with a sticker price of 60k (all-in) is a huge hit to that 250 number. One kid, still okay for four years. Multiple kids? Try again.

Incomes around 300-500k are hit the hardest by college. Not enough income to pay without feeling a very serious constraint but too much for any financial aid.

And this is why there are so many families in that range using DCPS.

I'm disappointed by this. I feel like we've been good citizens, never complain about taxes and donate money to local organizations. This was a real benefit to living in the city. Now we need to pony up another $80k post tax. It makes me want to make more money and there you have the widening of the income gap.

[Anonymous]

Someone with an income of 300k-500k should be able to just cash-flow college, are you kidding me?!?!?!

[Anonymous]

Not with multiple kids. We have 3 which will be in college at same time. That is $150k. No in-state tuition option. No financial aid. We have been big DCPS supporters and hate to have to consider moving to NoVA. DC schools are finally going in right direction-- thanks in no small part to dedicated families like ours who were willing to stick it out.

If Congress doesn't want to give DC TAG or make the states give in-state rates for DC residents - then how about reducing federal taxes for DC residents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, it's hard to cry about people who make >$450k failing to qualify. Obviously, they can afford whatever college their kid can get into. How many people does this really affect? BUT I oppose it. Do states means test their residents for in state tuition? No. It sounds like the beginning of the end of TAG. I just missed having that option for college & I'll be pissed if my kids don't have it, either.

nobody is crying about people who make that much -- nor should they be -- but you should be worried if this is one more factor encouraging people that make that much to leave the city and then losing all of that tax revenue. Another $80-$120K that a family may have to pay may be a factor btw/ that person deciding to move to VA or stay in DC.

Honestly the way in-state tuition is being chipped away in many states, I wouldn't be surprised if states moved to means testing for their own residents soon.

Whether or not they implement means testing, the flagship state schools are taking smaller and smaller percentages of in-state kids.

[Anonymous]

Screw flagship---I just want my kids to have an in-state option at any state school that is better than UDC---and that is a LOT of institutions.

DC doesn't even participate in the SE consortium like UMD does---where if your kid has a major that your state doesn't offer, you can get reciprocity at another state schools. The schools within the consortium are not THE flagship school (e.g., UNC Chapel Hill isn't an option while other UNC system schools are). However, many of the schools within the consortium are still far better than UDC.

[Anonymous]

If there will be means testing by income then other factors should also be considered, like property. I know a fair number of people who sunk money into Woodley Park homes or other NW neighborhoods but earn less than 450k. Why should they get access to DC TAG

[Anonymous]

This is very true about income being a poor benchmark. What about huge savings accounts? Seems arbitrary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is very true about income being a poor benchmark. What about huge savings accounts? Seems arbitrary.

yes, many people at the $450K income level have only been there for a few years and/or just payed off very large student loans and have very little savings. Others who make FAR less have giant savings thanks to family money or inheritance. I know many, many of these in NW DC. They work lower paying jobs (often with one spouse at home) but have inherited millions and/or get a ton of money monthly/yearly from family or from a trust. There is a whole slew of people like this in DC.

That said, none of this is relevant to those applying as in-state at any other school and I'm not sure why income or savings should be a factor for DC residents.

[Anonymous]

Here is the secret for us DCers. If you look hard enough you can get instate tuition AND DC Tag. While we haven't (or heard of anyone) who has done it at a UVA or UMD I have one at my alma matter which is a great Midwestern state school. Strong student coming out of DCPS did early decision at school, got in with offer of instate tuition. We pay about 2500 for college each year.

[Anonymous]

My HHI is over $450K and we were definitely planning on using DC TAG. Kind of sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is very true about income being a poor benchmark. What about huge savings accounts? Seems arbitrary.

Really good point. You can have a huge trust fund, or have grandparents pay for college and still be eligible.