Surplussing the old Hardy School, again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward 3 needs a new middle school. Half the ward no longer has access to Deal and few ward residents consider Hardy an option because of the significant quality gap with Deal.

I know that folks keep raising this. DC is *never* going to build a new middle school just because you don't like the perfectly good middle school that you already have. It is ridiculous to suggest it. Now overcrowding is another story. The argument for another high school is stronger. Though folks can rightfully point out that DC has lots of high schools with extra capacity, they are in parts of the city that are much farther away.

That's the issue. Most Ward 3 parents don't consider Hardy 'perfectly good" at all, as evidenced by the fact that few IB families send their kids to Hardy. They tend to view Hardy as being clearly inferior to the middle school located in the ward, which is Deal. However, most of Hardy's existing student families presumably consider Hardy to be a perfectly good alternative to the inferior middle schools in their OOB neighborhoods.

Yes, and DCPS is not going to build a school when one is available but the IB families simply won't use it. The problem is not a lack of a building.

Ward 3 needs another elementary building. Too many schools pushing 700 students.

They just need to manage the OOB population down as IB enrollment continues to climb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward 3 needs a new middle school. Half the ward no longer has access to Deal and few ward residents consider Hardy an option because of the significant quality gap with Deal.

I know that folks keep raising this. DC is *never* going to build a new middle school just because you don't like the perfectly good middle school that you already have. It is ridiculous to suggest it. Now overcrowding is another story. The argument for another high school is stronger. Though folks can rightfully point out that DC has lots of high schools with extra capacity, they are in parts of the city that are much farther away.

That's the issue. Most Ward 3 parents don't consider Hardy 'perfectly good" at all, as evidenced by the fact that few IB families send their kids to Hardy. They tend to view Hardy as being clearly inferior to the middle school located in the ward, which is Deal. However, most of Hardy's existing student families presumably consider Hardy to be a perfectly good alternative to the inferior middle schools in their OOB neighborhoods.

Yes, and DCPS is not going to build a school when one is available but the IB families simply won't use it. The problem is not a lack of a building.

The problem for many Ward 3 families IB for Hardy isn't lack of a building (although the lack of a real playing field iis concerning). It's that they perceive Hardy as an inferior school, both compared to Deal and to what they expect in a middle school offering. Yet Hardy also caters to a largely OOB population which values the school because it is better than what they would otherwise be stuck with. And, if by some miracle, the IB populaton at Hardy were to increase significantly, that would squeeze out those who have come to regard access to Hardy, if not as their right them at least as their best hope for a better middle school education. So the logical solution would be to start over by opening a new middle school with the curriculum and emphases that IB families want, while preserving a middle school optim that many OOB families have come to expect. Open a 'new' Hardy at the 'old' Hardy site and keep an existing middle school at the building that still is named 'Gordon' on the front.

I'm sorry. That is not logical at all.

Agree.

The easiest course would be to move the Hardy name, faculty, program and administtation to an underused (but first completely renovated) facility closer to where more of the school population lives. Then use the Gordon building as a middle school with a curriculum more geared to the needs and wants of the surrounding community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward 3 needs a new middle school. Half the ward no longer has access to Deal and few ward residents consider Hardy an option because of the significant quality gap with Deal.

I know that folks keep raising this. DC is *never* going to build a new middle school just because you don't like the perfectly good middle school that you already have. It is ridiculous to suggest it. Now overcrowding is another story. The argument for another high school is stronger. Though folks can rightfully point out that DC has lots of high schools with extra capacity, they are in parts of the city that are much farther away.

That's the issue. Most Ward 3 parents don't consider Hardy 'perfectly good" at all, as evidenced by the fact that few IB families send their kids to Hardy. They tend to view Hardy as being clearly inferior to the middle school located in the ward, which is Deal. However, most of Hardy's existing student families presumably consider Hardy to be a perfectly good alternative to the inferior middle schools in their OOB neighborhoods.

Yes, and DCPS is not going to build a school when one is available but the IB families simply won't use it. The problem is not a lack of a building.

The problem for many Ward 3 families IB for Hardy isn't lack of a building (although the lack of a real playing field iis concerning). It's that they perceive Hardy as an inferior school, both compared to Deal and to what they expect in a middle school offering. Yet Hardy also caters to a largely OOB population which values the school because it is better than what they would otherwise be stuck with. And, if by some miracle, the IB populaton at Hardy were to increase significantly, that would squeeze out those who have come to regard access to Hardy, if not as their right them at least as their best hope for a better middle school education. So the logical solution would be to start over by opening a new middle school with the curriculum and emphases that IB families want, while preserving a middle school optim that many OOB families have come to expect. Open a 'new' Hardy at the 'old' Hardy site and keep an existing middle school at the building that still is named 'Gordon' on the front.

I'm sorry. That is not logical at all.

Agree.

The easiest course would be to move the Hardy name, faculty, program and administtation to an underused (but first completely renovated) facility closer to where more of the school population lives. Then use the Gordon building as a middle school with a curriculum more geared to the needs and wants of the surrounding community.

WHY?? Just use the damn school! I hope you understand that some folks might find the suggestion that the current student population needs to be removed to somewhere else in the city in order for IB families to use it a little off-putting to say the least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward 3 needs a new middle school. Half the ward no longer has access to Deal and few ward residents consider Hardy an option because of the significant quality gap with Deal.

I know that folks keep raising this. DC is *never* going to build a new middle school just because you don't like the perfectly good middle school that you already have. It is ridiculous to suggest it. Now overcrowding is another story. The argument for another high school is stronger. Though folks can rightfully point out that DC has lots of high schools with extra capacity, they are in parts of the city that are much farther away.

That's the issue. Most Ward 3 parents don't consider Hardy 'perfectly good" at all, as evidenced by the fact that few IB families send their kids to Hardy. They tend to view Hardy as being clearly inferior to the middle school located in the ward, which is Deal. However, most of Hardy's existing student families presumably consider Hardy to be a perfectly good alternative to the inferior middle schools in their OOB neighborhoods.

Yes, and DCPS is not going to build a school when one is available but the IB families simply won't use it. The problem is not a lack of a building.

The problem for many Ward 3 families IB for Hardy isn't lack of a building (although the lack of a real playing field iis concerning). It's that they perceive Hardy as an inferior school, both compared to Deal and to what they expect in a middle school offering. Yet Hardy also caters to a largely OOB population which values the school because it is better than what they would otherwise be stuck with. And, if by some miracle, the IB populaton at Hardy were to increase significantly, that would squeeze out those who have come to regard access to Hardy, if not as their right them at least as their best hope for a better middle school education. So the logical solution would be to start over by opening a new middle school with the curriculum and emphases that IB families want, while preserving a middle school optim that many OOB families have come to expect. Open a 'new' Hardy at the 'old' Hardy site and keep an existing middle school at the building that still is named 'Gordon' on the front.

I'm sorry. That is not logical at all.

Agree.

The easiest course would be to move the Hardy name, faculty, program and administtation to an underused (but first completely renovated) facility closer to where more of the school population lives. Then use the Gordon building as a middle school with a curriculum more geared to the needs and wants of the surrounding community.

WHY?? Just use the damn school! I hope you understand that some folks might find the suggestion that the current student population needs to be removed to somewhere else in the city in order for IB families to use it a little off-putting to say the least.

It may be off-putting, but the current population resents what they consider to be the carping demands on an IB population that wants significant change to a school that the current population things is somewhere between "good enough" and outstanding. At the same time, many cling to the status quo, including even school uniforms which they see as part of the Hardy tradition but yet are a turnoff for IB families looking for a great public middle school. The fact is that Upper NW could use a Deal II, yet Hardy is not seen that way -- witness how so many families scramble for top charter berths or dig deep for private schools to avoid Hardy. At the same time, Hardy is liked by many for whom it is a welcome alternative to what otherwise would be a rather poor quality middle school experience. Yet if Hardy somehow changed enough quickly, to be attractive to the IB community, it would lose its longstanding role as the better middle school alternative for those whose school would otherwise be very lousy. In other words, without significant changes at Hardy, the IB community continues to lose. If such change occurs and the IB student population rises significantly, OOB areas will lose access to Hardy. Build a new middle school in Upper NW and everyone wins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward 3 needs a new middle school. Half the ward no longer has access to Deal and few ward residents consider Hardy an option because of the significant quality gap with Deal.

I know that folks keep raising this. DC is *never* going to build a new middle school just because you don't like the perfectly good middle school that you already have. It is ridiculous to suggest it. Now overcrowding is another story. The argument for another high school is stronger. Though folks can rightfully point out that DC has lots of high schools with extra capacity, they are in parts of the city that are much farther away.

That's the issue. Most Ward 3 parents don't consider Hardy 'perfectly good" at all, as evidenced by the fact that few IB families send their kids to Hardy. They tend to view Hardy as being clearly inferior to the middle school located in the ward, which is Deal. However, most of Hardy's existing student families presumably consider Hardy to be a perfectly good alternative to the inferior middle schools in their OOB neighborhoods.

Yes, and DCPS is not going to build a school when one is available but the IB families simply won't use it. The problem is not a lack of a building.

The problem for many Ward 3 families IB for Hardy isn't lack of a building (although the lack of a real playing field iis concerning). It's that they perceive Hardy as an inferior school, both compared to Deal and to what they expect in a middle school offering. Yet Hardy also caters to a largely OOB population which values the school because it is better than what they would otherwise be stuck with. And, if by some miracle, the IB populaton at Hardy were to increase significantly, that would squeeze out those who have come to regard access to Hardy, if not as their right them at least as their best hope for a better middle school education. So the logical solution would be to start over by opening a new middle school with the curriculum and emphases that IB families want, while preserving a middle school optim that many OOB families have come to expect. Open a 'new' Hardy at the 'old' Hardy site and keep an existing middle school at the building that still is named 'Gordon' on the front.

I'm sorry. That is not logical at all.

Agree.

The easiest course would be to move the Hardy name, faculty, program and administtation to an underused (but first completely renovated) facility closer to where more of the school population lives. Then use the Gordon building as a middle school with a curriculum more geared to the needs and wants of the surrounding community.

WHY?? Just use the damn school! I hope you understand that some folks might find the suggestion that the current student population needs to be removed to somewhere else in the city in order for IB families to use it a little off-putting to say the least.

It may be off-putting, but the current population resents what they consider to be the carping demands on an IB population that wants significant change to a school that the current population things is somewhere between "good enough" and outstanding. At the same time, many cling to the status quo, including even school uniforms which they see as part of the Hardy tradition but yet are a turnoff for IB families looking for a great public middle school. The fact is that Upper NW could use a Deal II, yet Hardy is not seen that way -- witness how so many families scramble for top charter berths or dig deep for private schools to avoid Hardy. At the same time, Hardy is liked by many for whom it is a welcome alternative to what otherwise would be a rather poor quality middle school experience. Yet if Hardy somehow changed enough quickly, to be attractive to the IB community, it would lose its longstanding role as the better middle school alternative for those whose school would otherwise be very lousy. In other words, without significant changes at Hardy, the IB community continues to lose. If such change occurs and the IB student population rises significantly, OOB areas will lose access to Hardy. Build a new middle school in Upper NW and everyone wins.

Taxpayers will not win in this scenario. Too many surplus/underused buildings in the city already.

[Anonymous]

#Bowsered

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward 3 needs a new middle school. Half the ward no longer has access to Deal and few ward residents consider Hardy an option because of the significant quality gap with Deal.

I know that folks keep raising this. DC is *never* going to build a new middle school just because you don't like the perfectly good middle school that you already have. It is ridiculous to suggest it. Now overcrowding is another story. The argument for another high school is stronger. Though folks can rightfully point out that DC has lots of high schools with extra capacity, they are in parts of the city that are much farther away.

That's the issue. Most Ward 3 parents don't consider Hardy 'perfectly good" at all, as evidenced by the fact that few IB families send their kids to Hardy. They tend to view Hardy as being clearly inferior to the middle school located in the ward, which is Deal. However, most of Hardy's existing student families presumably consider Hardy to be a perfectly good alternative to the inferior middle schools in their OOB neighborhoods.

Yes, and DCPS is not going to build a school when one is available but the IB families simply won't use it. The problem is not a lack of a building.

The problem for many Ward 3 families IB for Hardy isn't lack of a building (although the lack of a real playing field iis concerning). It's that they perceive Hardy as an inferior school, both compared to Deal and to what they expect in a middle school offering. Yet Hardy also caters to a largely OOB population which values the school because it is better than what they would otherwise be stuck with. And, if by some miracle, the IB populaton at Hardy were to increase significantly, that would squeeze out those who have come to regard access to Hardy, if not as their right them at least as their best hope for a better middle school education. So the logical solution would be to start over by opening a new middle school with the curriculum and emphases that IB families want, while preserving a middle school optim that many OOB families have come to expect. Open a 'new' Hardy at the 'old' Hardy site and keep an existing middle school at the building that still is named 'Gordon' on the front.

I'm sorry. That is not logical at all.

Agree.

The easiest course would be to move the Hardy name, faculty, program and administtation to an underused (but first completely renovated) facility closer to where more of the school population lives. Then use the Gordon building as a middle school with a curriculum more geared to the needs and wants of the surrounding community.

WHY?? Just use the damn school! I hope you understand that some folks might find the suggestion that the current student population needs to be removed to somewhere else in the city in order for IB families to use it a little off-putting to say the least.

It may be off-putting, but the current population resents what they consider to be the carping demands on an IB population that wants significant change to a school that the current population things is somewhere between "good enough" and outstanding. At the same time, many cling to the status quo, including even school uniforms which they see as part of the Hardy tradition but yet are a turnoff for IB families looking for a great public middle school. The fact is that Upper NW could use a Deal II, yet Hardy is not seen that way -- witness how so many families scramble for top charter berths or dig deep for private schools to avoid Hardy. At the same time, Hardy is liked by many for whom it is a welcome alternative to what otherwise would be a rather poor quality middle school experience. Yet if Hardy somehow changed enough quickly, to be attractive to the IB community, it would lose its longstanding role as the better middle school alternative for those whose school would otherwise be very lousy. In other words, without significant changes at Hardy, the IB community continues to lose. If such change occurs and the IB student population rises significantly, OOB areas will lose access to Hardy. Build a new middle school in Upper NW and everyone wins.

Taxpayers will not win in this scenario. Too many surplus/underused buildings in the city already.

But, unfortunately, not where the schools are needed.

[Anonymous]

Isn't the problem with this property that there is no outdoor space? the surrounding fields are not DCPS property. If that is the case, the potential elementary school would have no outdoor space.

[Anonymous]

Why not put "hardy" in a surplus building closer to the homes of the students who attend it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not put "hardy" in a surplus building closer to the homes of the students who attend it?

Kids from all over the city come to Hardy, see the attendance map displayed on a thread of some weeks ago. The largest cluster is made of IB kids.

[Anonymous]

Hardy should just limit the seats offered on the lottery. Otherwise they risk being shut out if Wilson eventually I would think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the problem with this property that there is no outdoor space? the surrounding fields are not DCPS property. If that is the case, the potential elementary school would have no outdoor space.

The school itself is on a 1+ acre lot that adjoins a DPR rec center that is around 5 acres. DCPS and DPR co-locate all over the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They just need to manage the OOB population down as IB enrollment continues to climb.

The Ward 3 elementary schools with the biggest crowding issues already have virtually no OOB kids.

[Anonymous]

Kind of OT, but does anyone know what's happening to the GDS lower school on McArthur? I know, GDS is private. But that Lab school building is tiny! Doesn't even have a cafeteria. It's smaller than Ross which can hold a max of 150.

How much would it cost to make the Lab building a usable school and how long would it take? Would they update the tiny rec center next to it like Stoddert?

I have no idea if this is even feasible, but the GDS lower school is two blocks away from Lab lower school and holds nearly 600 PK-8 with its own outdoor space.

We can't alleviate crowding if we have nowhere to send kids in the interim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WTF this needs to go to an immersion charter. That neighborhood would eat it up!

This makes no sense unless the charter law is changed to give neighborhood preference. Which immersion charter would want to take on that location and renovate it? The PCSB prefers existing CMOs in DC or established ones from outside DC.