How do we get MCPS to stop cutting teachers and start cutting the central office?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Central office is OBSCENELY bloated. Practically everyone has a secretary, even low level managers. There's so much bureaucracy that people often literally do nothing all day while they wait for a check mark from someone 3 levels above them. Stereotypical govt employees at their worst.

- within the system

I'm wondering how you know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Please, save the disgruntled teacher thing for some other thread. None of the MCPS central staff are working with children, those who care or otherwise. The point is that the compensation packages for MCPS central staff are wildly inflated, as is the size of the central staff itself. It's a huge bucket of money that should be spent on teaching those children "who couldn't care less about being in your classroom but will need to pass various standardized tests or the teacher's job could be in jeopardy."

BTW I'm thrilled with my career choice. Doesn't quite sound like you are.

Could you please provide a specific example or two of the wildly inflated compensation packages for MCPS central staff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They are cutting both teachers and central office staff.

The central office cuts are very, very minimal when you look at the salary rates and number of central office staff. A move to the central office is a promotion path for principals that were making up to 140K in their home schools. The high salaries also carry a large fringe/benefit allocation. There are many departments in central office with sub department stacked through out the the organization.

Teacher's aides, special ed staff, ESL teachers, reading and math staff and other positions that in the classroom helping the teachers and students are paid at the very bottom of the scale, part time and reduced benefits. Imagine how many kids you could actually help by cutting one expensive crony and keeping the people who actually teach.

It wouldn't matter. The school system is crumbling. People are looking at "greener pastures," which don't exist in the system any longer. There is no autonomy. Principals are spineless and don't support staff.

Don't think that cutting a few positions here and there in central will open up a pot of gold to fund paras, for example - at least not ones who will stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Central office is OBSCENELY bloated. Practically everyone has a secretary, even low level managers. There's so much bureaucracy that people often literally do nothing all day while they wait for a check mark from someone 3 levels above them. Stereotypical govt employees at their worst.

- within the system

I'm wondering how you know this.

I work for an org that works closely with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Central office is OBSCENELY bloated. Practically everyone has a secretary, even low level managers. There's so much bureaucracy that people often literally do nothing all day while they wait for a check mark from someone 3 levels above them. Stereotypical govt employees at their worst.

- within the system

I'm wondering how you know this.

I work for an org that works closely with them.

And as a result, you know that everybody has a secretary, and that people literally do nothing all day? Your organization must work very closely indeed with MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:central office staff are paid significantly more than comparable state and federal agencies. Its one of the back channel problems that MCPS has with the county council. The other county and state agencies are starving while Carver sits high on the hog. Its hurts our ability to get much needed funds for the increasing student population when they turn around to protect themselves while cutting already strained local school teachers and aides.

+1

Typical that MCPS is playing the game of cutting classroom teachers and support vs. cutting back on the layers of bureaucracy. Even some secretaries make over $100,000 at the Carver Center (reported by the Washington Post several years ago). Typical that positions are filled in house through the MCPS tracking system. Typical that no matter how bad they do their job, people are left in positions till they chose to leave or retire. There is no accountability at the Carver Center and they are the heart of what is wrong with Montgomery County Public Schools. Education is not their priority. Self advancement and self serving is their focus and students are paying the cost. I hope the new Superintendent comes in and cleans house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Central office is OBSCENELY bloated. Practically everyone has a secretary, even low level managers. There's so much bureaucracy that people often literally do nothing all day while they wait for a check mark from someone 3 levels above them. Stereotypical govt employees at their worst.

- within the system

I'm wondering how you know this.

I work for an org that works closely with them.

And would that org be the 10 or so people who are the "Parents Coalition" and pretend they represent everyone in the county?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Central office is OBSCENELY bloated. Practically everyone has a secretary, even low level managers. There's so much bureaucracy that people often literally do nothing all day while they wait for a check mark from someone 3 levels above them. Stereotypical govt employees at their worst.

- within the system

I'm wondering how you know this.

I work for an org that works closely with them.

And would that org be the 10 or so people who are the "Parents Coalition" and pretend they represent everyone in the county?

I think that 10 is an overestimate. (I'm not the PP you're responding to.)

[Anonymous]

One of the local papers used to publish MCPS salaries. Google it. You can be sure the people still there are not being paid less!

[Anonymous]

All of the top people at the Carver Center are part of the problem NOT the solution. Same people there before Starr. Same people after Starr. Same crap ass job in running the school system. Hire a good superintendent, let the dead weight go, hire people who care about kids, and most importantly, look OUTSIDE of MCPS for well qualified administrators. The bring up through the rank and file has led to complacency and an attitude of entitlement within MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The issue really isn't cutting teachers vs. central office staff. The fundamental issue is MCPS has too many kids (and still rapidly increasing) and simply doesn't have the resources to support. This is what you get when you have the most open minded school system.

No other schools systems have dealt with growth in density. Arlington grew by phenomenal rates but Arlington was smart and brought in businesses that also raised the tax revenue. The same is true in Howard County. Huge growth but also revenue growth with it. The problem in Montgomery County is the County Council. They were really dumb about development. They placed a moratorium on development during the boom years because they wanted to think about transportation. This was a HUGE advantage to Howard, Arlington and even Fairfax and DC. We lost all the new business and industry development to other counties and now our revenues are declining while our students are increasing. This is a disaster formula and will take decades to correct and it may never work out for Montgomery County.

It really isn't about open mindedness, it was simply incompetence on the part of the County Council. MCPS demonstrates the same incompetence. They constantly protect a top heavy and poor performing central office. The behave arrogantly. MCPS needs to cut the central office significantly to have any credibility in pushing for funds to address student increases. Right now, its the same game of MCPS trying to protect their cronies.

Exactly. +2 trillion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish they would publish the salaries of the central office personal. This would be an eye opener. They are government employees and this is public information.

I used to just assume that the central office was small and people weren't paid much. This would explain some of the quality issues. I was shocked when I heard that many make 160, 180 and over 200K. If you go through the web site, which isn't easy, you'll find many departments. Its a huge organization! If you know people in MCPS, you'll know that these jobs are retire in place type job. Life time security no matter what you do.

It is a promotion path for principals. There is a stack of administrators over the principals. I don't have a problem with a principal in a large high school making 140K. Its a hard job and there certainly isn't much help from the central office! I don't have a problem with the superintendent making over 200K.

As a taxpayer I have a huge problem with dollars I thought were going to education going to fund over paid/ underperforming administrators in the central office while the lowest paid staff that help kids get cut.

How many organizations with 23,000 employees and a $2.3 billion annual operating budget don't have central/corporate/top managers who are paid $160,000+?

Maybe MCPS would be able to hire highly-qualified people who would do a better job for less than $160,000. (Maybe JPMorganChase would be able to hire a highly-qualified top executive who would do a better job for less than $20 million.) Or maybe MCPS wouldn't. But merely assuming that if the salary is $160,000+, the people are overpaid? That's not how the job market works.

Fine. If these administrators are so knowledgeable about education and management, one would think they'd be snatched up by DC's booming edTech sector. If an MCPS teacher or principal wants to make more $$$, they shouldn't have to leave the classroom to do so. We should cap admin / central office staff at same pay levels as teachers and/or find a middle ground and pay top teachers more $$$. Right now it is a joke in MCPS. All the cushy jobs are in central office and even young teachers are fleeing the stress of the classroom to become bureaucrats. This is insane. Our kids are losing out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Central office is OBSCENELY bloated. Practically everyone has a secretary, even low level managers. There's so much bureaucracy that people often literally do nothing all day while they wait for a check mark from someone 3 levels above them. Stereotypical govt employees at their worst.

- within the system

Holy crap. Can you draft the ballot initiative? Why don't we crowd source it on DCUM and then we can all promise to work on getting enough signatures. We'll have to have a real IRL meeting at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Central office is OBSCENELY bloated. Practically everyone has a secretary, even low level managers. There's so much bureaucracy that people often literally do nothing all day while they wait for a check mark from someone 3 levels above them. Stereotypical govt employees at their worst.

- within the system

Holy crap. Can you draft the ballot initiative? Why don't we crowd source it on DCUM and then we can all promise to work on getting enough signatures. We'll have to have a real IRL meeting at some point.

I think that it would be a serious mistake to draft a ballot initiative based on information from an anonymous poster on an internet message board.

[Anonymous]

Fine. If these administrators are so knowledgeable about education and management, one would think they'd be snatched up by DC's booming edTech sector. If an MCPS teacher or principal wants to make more $$$, they shouldn't have to leave the classroom to do so. We should cap admin / central office staff at same pay levels as teachers and/or find a middle ground and pay top teachers more $$$. Right now it is a joke in MCPS. All the cushy jobs are in central office and even young teachers are fleeing the stress of the classroom to become bureaucrats. This is insane. Our kids are losing out.

Answer this - In what profession are people slammed for wanting to climb? If I'm a GS 12, why can't I apply for a supervisory position if I'm bored out of my mind?

Many people outgrow the classroom. Yes, some people flee b/c the conditions under which they work are unbearable. But those who have been successful and happy deserve to expand their skill set.

I'm not saying that central office is a lean machine. It's not. However, there are still qualified folks in central office who are passionate about education.