What's your impression of gifted/talented services in Arlington elementary schools?

[Anonymous]

I am not the OP, but I am interested in the bolded part above. The gifted resource teacher at my sons' school said that Swanson does differentiate in middle school. She had a name for it, but I can't remember what it was. It sounded to me like it was a full program that was almost like tracking in that if your student was labeled as gifted they would go through middle school with other kids who were also gifted. She said that is also trickling down to the elementary school level where the gifted students would be put in classes together as well. I know Arlington's gifted program is subject specific so I am not sure how that would all work, but she thought it was important that my son was identified by the time he got to middle school for this reason (he's in 4th now).

This resource teacher is lying. There is no such program in APS middle schools. There are different levels of math only. In every other subject, students are designated as gifted, but get nothing for it, except that the classroom teacher is aware of it, and will try their best to offer enrichment to those students in a regular classroom. There is one GT resource teacher per middle school. Think about that: one person is supposed to provide a full program to some 200-300 designated kids in each middle school? Not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am not the OP, but I am interested in the bolded part above. The gifted resource teacher at my sons' school said that Swanson does differentiate in middle school. She had a name for it, but I can't remember what it was. It sounded to me like it was a full program that was almost like tracking in that if your student was labeled as gifted they would go through middle school with other kids who were also gifted. She said that is also trickling down to the elementary school level where the gifted students would be put in classes together as well. I know Arlington's gifted program is subject specific so I am not sure how that would all work, but she thought it was important that my son was identified by the time he got to middle school for this reason (he's in 4th now).

This resource teacher is lying. There is no such program in APS middle schools. There are different levels of math only. In every other subject, students are designated as gifted, but get nothing for it, except that the classroom teacher is aware of it, and will try their best to offer enrichment to those students in a regular classroom. There is one GT resource teacher per middle school. Think about that: one person is supposed to provide a full program to some 200-300 designated kids in each middle school? Not.

I really don't think she was lying as she has nothing to gain from doing that. In a way, putting those kids together in one class would make it easier for the gifted teacher - she could hit them all in one full swoop. It was surprising for me to hear her say that, but she said our school is moving that way, and I know of another N. Arlington elementaries where they are doing the same thing.

Is your child in the gifted program and are they are Swanson?

[Anonymous]

For people whose kids get pulled out in elementary for gifted services, what do they do? I've been trying to figure out if it's worth asking about for my child and I just can't get a handle on what exactly they do.

[Anonymous]

The two assignments I remember from elementary school (in NArl, at a school with a crappy gifted resources teacher but great regular teachers) were advanced math problems and close reading of poetry.

[Anonymous]

A lot of it for us has depended on the classroom teacher. DS has a fabulous 1st grade teacher who was great at giving him differentiated work in math that was both challenging and he loved. She also worked with him to develop a year long independent project involving writing and geography. His second grade classroom teacher in comparison was a huge disappointment. He did get pulled out each week for math, language arts (and later "book club") with the RTG who was great. Now in 3rd grade there is a new RTG who is pushing in only (I've heard this is the trend county wide in ES) and while his classroom teacher has been receptive to meeting with us and discussing differentiation options I really haven't seen much. It's all a little frustrating and talking to other parents it doesn't seem as if our experience is outside the norm.

[Anonymous]

I am not the OP, but I am interested in the bolded part above. The gifted resource teacher at my sons' school said that Swanson does differentiate in middle school. She had a name for it, but I can't remember what it was. It sounded to me like it was a full program that was almost like tracking in that if your student was labeled as gifted they would go through middle school with other kids who were also gifted. She said that is also trickling down to the elementary school level where the gifted students would be put in classes together as well. I know Arlington's gifted program is subject specific so I am not sure how that would all work, but she thought it was important that my son was identified by the time he got to middle school for this reason (he's in 4th now).


This resource teacher is lying. There is no such program in APS middle schools. There are different levels of math only. In every other subject, students are designated as gifted, but get nothing for it, except that the classroom teacher is aware of it, and will try their best to offer enrichment to those students in a regular classroom. There is one GT resource teacher per middle school. Think about that: one person is supposed to provide a full program to some 200-300 designated kids in each middle school? Not.


I really don't think she was lying as she has nothing to gain from doing that. In a way, putting those kids together in one class would make it easier for the gifted teacher - she could hit them all in one full swoop. It was surprising for me to hear her say that, but she said our school is moving that way, and I know of another N. Arlington elementaries where they are doing the same thing.

Is your child in the gifted program and are they are Swanson?

Yes, she does have something to gain by lying, which is to create a public perception that there is a viable gifted program in Arlington middle schools. And your suggestion that it is easier to put them in one class for her is ridiculous--gifted teachers in middle schools do not actually teach classes or pull students out, they come into classes and help the general ed teacher. Even the gifted math classes are taught by general ed teachers, not by the gifted resource teacher.

[Anonymous]

Wow. I was just starting to relax about the elementary school lack of GT thinking this would all be sorted out in middle school (tracked classes like I had growing up in another part of VA). I'm really disappointed to learn this is not the case.

[Anonymous]

Williamsburg MS used to try to group the gifted kids in the same core subject classes, but maybe the school has gotten too big to do that anymore. My child went through Arlington elementary and middle schools from K-8 and then went to TJ for high school. He was identified gifted in all the core subjects, and had various amounts (from none to a great deal) of differentiated instruction over the years, depending on the teachers and the gifted resource teacher. When he got TJ, he was not at any disadvantage compared to the Fairfax Co. kids who'd been in AAP since elementary school. So I don't know if gifted instruction really makes a difference.

[Anonymous]

200 - 300 kids designated as gifted at one middle school? That's ridculous. If that's true, APS needs to re-define "gifted." That's about 1/4-1/3 of that school's population. When I was a kid, we had about 6-10 kids in our entire elementary school designated as gifted, and it was a school on Long Island with a similar demographic to North Arlington with about 700 kids K-6. (We were pulled out for 1/2 day once a week and bused to a center for district-wide services.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am not the OP, but I am interested in the bolded part above. The gifted resource teacher at my sons' school said that Swanson does differentiate in middle school. She had a name for it, but I can't remember what it was. It sounded to me like it was a full program that was almost like tracking in that if your student was labeled as gifted they would go through middle school with other kids who were also gifted. She said that is also trickling down to the elementary school level where the gifted students would be put in classes together as well. I know Arlington's gifted program is subject specific so I am not sure how that would all work, but she thought it was important that my son was identified by the time he got to middle school for this reason (he's in 4th now).


This resource teacher is lying. There is no such program in APS middle schools. There are different levels of math only. In every other subject, students are designated as gifted, but get nothing for it, except that the classroom teacher is aware of it, and will try their best to offer enrichment to those students in a regular classroom. There is one GT resource teacher per middle school. Think about that: one person is supposed to provide a full program to some 200-300 designated kids in each middle school? Not.


I really don't think she was lying as she has nothing to gain from doing that. In a way, putting those kids together in one class would make it easier for the gifted teacher - she could hit them all in one full swoop. It was surprising for me to hear her say that, but she said our school is moving that way, and I know of another N. Arlington elementaries where they are doing the same thing.

Is your child in the gifted program and are they are Swanson?

Yes, she does have something to gain by lying, which is to create a public perception that there is a viable gifted program in Arlington middle schools. And your suggestion that it is easier to put them in one class for her is ridiculous--gifted teachers in middle schools do not actually teach classes or pull students out, they come into classes and help the general ed teacher. Even the gifted math classes are taught by general ed teachers, not by the gifted resource teacher.

I completely disagree with you. If you have an entire class of gifted students, the general ed teacher along with the gifted teacher is going to be able to do different types of activities in that class. They could do a whole class activity that used more higher order thinking skills, or some other type of "gifted" activity. It would also allow the gifted teacher to just come into one class rather than trying to split her time to work with 4-5 students in 4-5 classes. It is easier for the general ed teacher, too, if all of her students are working at a similar level. I am not saying this is PC or something that schools would admit to doing because it is tracking, but it does make sense to me. And as a PP stated, it is something that Williamsburg does or used to do so it is not ridiculous at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:




I am not the OP, but I am interested in the bolded part above. The gifted resource teacher at my sons' school said that Swanson does differentiate in middle school. She had a name for it, but I can't remember what it was. It sounded to me like it was a full program that was almost like tracking in that if your student was labeled as gifted they would go through middle school with other kids who were also gifted. She said that is also trickling down to the elementary school level where the gifted students would be put in classes together as well. I know Arlington's gifted program is subject specific so I am not sure how that would all work, but she thought it was important that my son was identified by the time he got to middle school for this reason (he's in 4th now).


This resource teacher is lying. There is no such program in APS middle schools. There are different levels of math only. In every other subject, students are designated as gifted, but get nothing for it, except that the classroom teacher is aware of it, and will try their best to offer enrichment to those students in a regular classroom. There is one GT resource teacher per middle school. Think about that: one person is supposed to provide a full program to some 200-300 designated kids in each middle school? Not.


I really don't think she was lying as she has nothing to gain from doing that. In a way, putting those kids together in one class would make it easier for the gifted teacher - she could hit them all in one full swoop. It was surprising for me to hear her say that, but she said our school is moving that way, and I know of another N. Arlington elementaries where they are doing the same thing.

Is your child in the gifted program and are they are Swanson?


Yes, she does have something to gain by lying, which is to create a public perception that there is a viable gifted program in Arlington middle schools. And your suggestion that it is easier to put them in one class for her is ridiculous--gifted teachers in middle schools do not actually teach classes or pull students out, they come into classes and help the general ed teacher. Even the gifted math classes are taught by general ed teachers, not by the gifted resource teacher.



I completely disagree with you. If you have an entire class of gifted students, the general ed teacher along with the gifted teacher is going to be able to do different types of activities in that class. They could do a whole class activity that used more higher order thinking skills, or some other type of "gifted" activity. It would also allow the gifted teacher to just come into one class rather than trying to split her time to work with 4-5 students in 4-5 classes. It is easier for the general ed teacher, too, if all of her students are working at a similar level. I am not saying this is PC or something that schools would admit to doing because it is tracking, but it does make sense to me. And as a PP stated, it is something that Williamsburg does or used to do so it is not ridiculous at all.

It would only be easier for the gen ed teacher if the gifted teacher was actually helping to plan the lesson. But if it is up to the gen ed teacher to do extra planning to incorporate the gifted teacher's presence, it's not easier for them at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP here who is also interested in what's offered at the middle school level. (I posted earlier today asking about what "intensified" courses were offered at the middle school level.)

There is differentiation, but it is much more subtle. There are higher level math classes. Kids that were in FLES in elementary go to transitional Spanish until they hit a language arts option in 7th. I know that several science-advanced kids are in a special cluster (not advertised.) None of this is a formal AAP program, of course. Even though my kid was identified as "gifted" in elementary, I'm frankly sick of thinking about what it means. It's easy to get hysterical wondering if you will somehow fail your kid if you don't give them the absolute most specialized attention possible. It's just not feasible in public school and may not be in most privates, as well.

I finally asked myself, is my kid happy or bored? What is the quality of the teaching across the board? And are there enough enrichment opportunities through clubs, specials etc. to satisfy a growing intellect? We have been satisfied that our APS middle school is answering those questions positively. Anything additional DC may need will be provided by us.

Wow, you are so reasonable, such a rarity when this topic comes up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son went to APS and had a score that would have gotten him into FCPS AAP at 6. They would not consider him until I pushed for 3 years. He was found eligible but I realized he would not get more than 30 minutes of pull out with a sub they used as a swing teacher. The general ed teachers he had did not seem to think GT existed and said things like, "If he's that smart, why isn't he more organized?".

I was so frustrated I took all of the classes needed to become a g/t teacher so I could help him. I also put him in a smaller Catholic school with a more nurturing set of teachers.

Clearly there's not enough training of teachers re: what giftedness actually means. Gifted kids often *are* unorganized. And, no, gifted is not the same as high-achieving. Depending on the level of giftedness (moderately vs. highly vs. profoundly) specialized programming can be as important as it is for kids with special needs. Not clear to me why the educational system doesn't see that. Gifted kids can be at risk for all sorts of problems if they don't receive the education they need.

In response to the quoted poster, what courses did you need to take? And by what standard (who sets it) were you looking to to fulfill the requirements? I'm curious about the educational backgrounds of gifted teachers -- anyone have a sense as to what Arlington requires for someone to be considered a gifted resource teacher? My own experience with my daughter's *clueless* gifted teacher at a N. Arlington school makes me question whether any specialized training is required at all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am not the OP, but I am interested in the bolded part above. The gifted resource teacher at my sons' school said that Swanson does differentiate in middle school. She had a name for it, but I can't remember what it was. It sounded to me like it was a full program that was almost like tracking in that if your student was labeled as gifted they would go through middle school with other kids who were also gifted. She said that is also trickling down to the elementary school level where the gifted students would be put in classes together as well. I know Arlington's gifted program is subject specific so I am not sure how that would all work, but she thought it was important that my son was identified by the time he got to middle school for this reason (he's in 4th now).


This resource teacher is lying. There is no such program in APS middle schools. There are different levels of math only. In every other subject, students are designated as gifted, but get nothing for it, except that the classroom teacher is aware of it, and will try their best to offer enrichment to those students in a regular classroom. There is one GT resource teacher per middle school. Think about that: one person is supposed to provide a full program to some 200-300 designated kids in each middle school? Not.


I really don't think she was lying as she has nothing to gain from doing that. In a way, putting those kids together in one class would make it easier for the gifted teacher - she could hit them all in one full swoop. It was surprising for me to hear her say that, but she said our school is moving that way, and I know of another N. Arlington elementaries where they are doing the same thing.

Is your child in the gifted program and are they are Swanson?

Yes, she does have something to gain by lying, which is to create a public perception that there is a viable gifted program in Arlington middle schools. And your suggestion that it is easier to put them in one class for her is ridiculous--gifted teachers in middle schools do not actually teach classes or pull students out, they come into classes and help the general ed teacher. Even the gifted math classes are taught by general ed teachers, not by the gifted resource teacher.

I completely disagree with you. If you have an entire class of gifted students, the general ed teacher along with the gifted teacher is going to be able to do different types of activities in that class. They could do a whole class activity that used more higher order thinking skills, or some other type of "gifted" activity. It would also allow the gifted teacher to just come into one class rather than trying to split her time to work with 4-5 students in 4-5 classes. It is easier for the general ed teacher, too, if all of her students are working at a similar level. I am not saying this is PC or something that schools would admit to doing because it is tracking, but it does make sense to me. And as a PP stated, it is something that Williamsburg does or used to do so it is not ridiculous at all.

Our Arlington school experimented with "clustering" this year. Most of the gifted kids in my kid's grade were put into one classroom -- regrettably with a teacher who was ill-equipped w/r/t teaching style to deal with them. Very rigid, discourages questions, discourages interests in more advanced topics, seems to believe teaching is all about keeping kids quiet in the classroom. Meanwhile, our "gifted resource teacher" is similarly regimented in her teaching. Materials taught in pull-outs are pretty much the same as what the general ed teacher is teaching. Maybe Fairfax County has the right idea -- one would hope that the gifted centers there actually have teachers who know something about gifted pedagogy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:200 - 300 kids designated as gifted at one middle school? That's ridculous. If that's true, APS needs to re-define "gifted." That's about 1/4-1/3 of that school's population. When I was a kid, we had about 6-10 kids in our entire elementary school designated as gifted, and it was a school on Long Island with a similar demographic to North Arlington with about 700 kids K-6. (We were pulled out for 1/2 day once a week and bused to a center for district-wide services.)

My sense is that gifted = high achieving in Arlington. If you actually administered a full IQ test, I suspect most would not score above the 130 threshold.