DC independent schools with best recent Ivy League admission records

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does this make you laugh out loud? I am familiar with two of the three schools in question in recent years, and per year at each school, there are maybe 2-3 Ivy D1 recruits per graduating classes, i.e. actual recruits who had an admissions read early and a verbal commitment junior year or fall senior year, and a national signing letter of intent in winter of senior year. 2-3 at most. There were a few more that "walked on" when they arrived at the school, often with the coach's blessing and knowledge (but no help in admissions) and most of these sat on bench. Others started a new sport in college (most often crew or rugby) but they didn't get any admissions bump for a sport they hadn't begun yet. Then perhaps another handful were recruited or very clearly helped in admissions for top D3 teams (i.e. NESCAC schools such as Williams, Midd, or a few other desirable schools with reasonably strong sports teams in some sports i.e. Emory, Wash U, U Chicago).

Please stop using actual facts to make your point. Everyone needs to believe that hooks are the only way to get in to highly selective schools. It supports their notion of being a victim in an unfair system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The GDS poster is either making an extended, elaborate joke or has some kind of mental illness. It could go either way.

Either way, our reaction should be pitty and not scorn. What is clear, however, is that he/she has way too little else in his/her life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this make you laugh out loud? I am familiar with two of the three schools in question in recent years, and per year at each school, there are maybe 2-3 Ivy D1 recruits per graduating classes, i.e. actual recruits who had an admissions read early and a verbal commitment junior year or fall senior year, and a national signing letter of intent in winter of senior year. 2-3 at most. There were a few more that "walked on" when they arrived at the school, often with the coach's blessing and knowledge (but no help in admissions) and most of these sat on bench. Others started a new sport in college (most often crew or rugby) but they didn't get any admissions bump for a sport they hadn't begun yet. Then perhaps another handful were recruited or very clearly helped in admissions for top D3 teams (i.e. NESCAC schools such as Williams, Midd, or a few other desirable schools with reasonably strong sports teams in some sports i.e. Emory, Wash U, U Chicago).

Please stop using actual facts to make your point. Everyone needs to believe that hooks are the only way to get in to highly selective schools. It supports their notion of being a victim in an unfair system.

Why so defensive? Of course unhooked kids get in, and of course it is easier to get in if you have a hook. This is not the controversial topic you seem to want it to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this make you laugh out loud? I am familiar with two of the three schools in question in recent years, and per year at each school, there are maybe 2-3 Ivy D1 recruits per graduating classes, i.e. actual recruits who had an admissions read early and a verbal commitment junior year or fall senior year, and a national signing letter of intent in winter of senior year. 2-3 at most. There were a few more that "walked on" when they arrived at the school, often with the coach's blessing and knowledge (but no help in admissions) and most of these sat on bench. Others started a new sport in college (most often crew or rugby) but they didn't get any admissions bump for a sport they hadn't begun yet. Then perhaps another handful were recruited or very clearly helped in admissions for top D3 teams (i.e. NESCAC schools such as Williams, Midd, or a few other desirable schools with reasonably strong sports teams in some sports i.e. Emory, Wash U, U Chicago).

Please stop using actual facts to make your point. Everyone needs to believe that hooks are the only way to get in to highly selective schools. It supports their notion of being a victim in an unfair system.

Why so defensive? Of course unhooked kids get in, and of course it is easier to get in if you have a hook. This is not the controversial topic you seem to want it to be.

That person agrees with you. It's sarcasm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this make you laugh out loud? I am familiar with two of the three schools in question in recent years, and per year at each school, there are maybe 2-3 Ivy D1 recruits per graduating classes, i.e. actual recruits who had an admissions read early and a verbal commitment junior year or fall senior year, and a national signing letter of intent in winter of senior year. 2-3 at most. There were a few more that "walked on" when they arrived at the school, often with the coach's blessing and knowledge (but no help in admissions) and most of these sat on bench. Others started a new sport in college (most often crew or rugby) but they didn't get any admissions bump for a sport they hadn't begun yet. Then perhaps another handful were recruited or very clearly helped in admissions for top D3 teams (i.e. NESCAC schools such as Williams, Midd, or a few other desirable schools with reasonably strong sports teams in some sports i.e. Emory, Wash U, U Chicago).

Please stop using actual facts to make your point. Everyone needs to believe that hooks are the only way to get in to highly selective schools. It supports their notion of being a victim in an unfair system.

Why so defensive? Of course unhooked kids get in, and of course it is easier to get in if you have a hook. This is not the controversial topic you seem to want it to be.

That person agrees with you. It's sarcasm.

Doesn't come across that way.

[Anonymous]

I think it's important to remember OP is talking about private schools. I think the hook thing sometimes works differently than in public schools.

I'm going to toss some observations out there, and you guys are welcome to pick them apart. I'm actually curious if any of you have noticed similar things, or not at all. I'm basing my observations on DC, who attended private and public schools, who has friends who attended both public and Big 3 private schools, and who ended up at at an Ivy without hooks. I'm actually curious if any of you have noticed similar things.

The athletic hook seems to work well for public school kids - DC has several friends who were recruited from area magnets for their sports. For sports like fencing, squash, and lacrosse, the privates are also fertile recruiting grounds. Crew recruits seem to draw equally from publics and privates, maybe because not that many public and private high schools have top notch crew programs. I do know a recent soccer recruit from a big 3.

The legacy hook is a mixed bag. Lots of public school kids have legacy status, of course. But these days legacy status, by itself, doesn't seem to be enough to get into Ivies that take 5-10% of applicants (Harvard seems to take the largest pct of legacies, about 1/3 of legacy applicants, who tend to be really qualified anyway). In addition to legacy status, it seems you also need a track record of large donations and/or something else special. From private schools, the hook is more likely to be legacy status combined with ability to pay full tuition and even make large donations. (I've had a hunch that this explains the large number of Ivy acceptances during the ED/EA round.)

YMMV. Also, obviously these rules are by no means iron clad and there are always exceptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's important to remember OP is talking about private schools. I think the hook thing sometimes works differently than in public schools.

I'm going to toss some observations out there, and you guys are welcome to pick them apart. I'm actually curious if any of you have noticed similar things, or not at all. I'm basing my observations on DC, who attended private and public schools, who has friends who attended both public and Big 3 private schools, and who ended up at at an Ivy without hooks. I'm actually curious if any of you have noticed similar things.

The athletic hook seems to work well for public school kids - DC has several friends who were recruited from area magnets for their sports. For sports like fencing, squash, and lacrosse, the privates are also fertile recruiting grounds. Crew recruits seem to draw equally from publics and privates, maybe because not that many public and private high schools have top notch crew programs. I do know a recent soccer recruit from a big 3.

The legacy hook is a mixed bag. Lots of public school kids have legacy status, of course. But these days legacy status, by itself, doesn't seem to be enough to get into Ivies that take 5-10% of applicants (Harvard seems to take the largest pct of legacies, about 1/3 of legacy applicants, who tend to be really qualified anyway). In addition to legacy status, it seems you also need a track record of large donations and/or something else special. From private schools, the hook is more likely to be legacy status combined with ability to pay full tuition and even make large donations. (I've had a hunch that this explains the large number of Ivy acceptances during the ED/EA round.)

YMMV. Also, obviously these rules are by no means iron clad and there are always exceptions.

Not sue about money as differentiating factor within the legacy pool itself. The private school legacy admits I know at HYP are a mixed bag economically. Overall they tend to skew upper middle class. But, there are as many academician or government lawyer families (probably small but consistent givers) as there are truly wealthy ones with the capacity to make sizable donations. FA versus full pay not a big consideration as this group as a whole is going to have far fewer FA students than the overall school ratio, which can run as high as 60%.

[Anonymous]

Not "sure", sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's important to remember OP is talking about private schools. I think the hook thing sometimes works differently than in public schools.

I'm going to toss some observations out there, and you guys are welcome to pick them apart. I'm actually curious if any of you have noticed similar things, or not at all. I'm basing my observations on DC, who attended private and public schools, who has friends who attended both public and Big 3 private schools, and who ended up at at an Ivy without hooks. I'm actually curious if any of you have noticed similar things.

The athletic hook seems to work well for public school kids - DC has several friends who were recruited from area magnets for their sports. For sports like fencing, squash, and lacrosse, the privates are also fertile recruiting grounds. Crew recruits seem to draw equally from publics and privates, maybe because not that many public and private high schools have top notch crew programs. I do know a recent soccer recruit from a big 3.

The legacy hook is a mixed bag. Lots of public school kids have legacy status, of course. But these days legacy status, by itself, doesn't seem to be enough to get into Ivies that take 5-10% of applicants (Harvard seems to take the largest pct of legacies, about 1/3 of legacy applicants, who tend to be really qualified anyway). In addition to legacy status, it seems you also need a track record of large donations and/or something else special. From private schools, the hook is more likely to be legacy status combined with ability to pay full tuition and even make large donations. (I've had a hunch that this explains the large number of Ivy acceptances during the ED/EA round.)

YMMV. Also, obviously these rules are by no means iron clad and there are always exceptions.

Not sue about money as differentiating factor within the legacy pool itself. The private school legacy admits I know at HYP are a mixed bag economically. Overall they tend to skew upper middle class. But, there are as many academician or government lawyer families (probably small but consistent givers) as there are truly wealthy ones with the capacity to make sizable donations. FA versus full pay not a big consideration as this group as a whole is going to have far fewer FA students than the overall school ratio, which can run as high as 60%.

I don't necessarily disagree. I'm basing my theory on the fact that a lot of HYP from privates seem to come at the ED/EA round, which is obviously an easier round for getting in, but which also tends to send a signal that money and FA are less important to the family. I've wondered for a while if colleges use the ED/EA round to get the full pay kids who will finance the FA kids (full disclosure: DC got in during the ED/EA round). Of course, EA (but not ED) means that you don't have to go if you don't like the FA package that's eventually awarded, but overall I think EA and ED are both games for better-off families. A family of two government lawyers isn't going to qualify for FA anyway, but if they saved well they could finance HYP. These are just my impressions, though, and I could well be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's important to remember OP is talking about private schools. I think the hook thing sometimes works differently than in public schools.

I'm going to toss some observations out there, and you guys are welcome to pick them apart. I'm actually curious if any of you have noticed similar things, or not at all. I'm basing my observations on DC, who attended private and public schools, who has friends who attended both public and Big 3 private schools, and who ended up at at an Ivy without hooks. I'm actually curious if any of you have noticed similar things.

The athletic hook seems to work well for public school kids - DC has several friends who were recruited from area magnets for their sports. For sports like fencing, squash, and lacrosse, the privates are also fertile recruiting grounds. Crew recruits seem to draw equally from publics and privates, maybe because not that many public and private high schools have top notch crew programs. I do know a recent soccer recruit from a big 3.

The legacy hook is a mixed bag. Lots of public school kids have legacy status, of course. But these days legacy status, by itself, doesn't seem to be enough to get into Ivies that take 5-10% of applicants (Harvard seems to take the largest pct of legacies, about 1/3 of legacy applicants, who tend to be really qualified anyway). In addition to legacy status, it seems you also need a track record of large donations and/or something else special. From private schools, the hook is more likely to be legacy status combined with ability to pay full tuition and even make large donations. (I've had a hunch that this explains the large number of Ivy acceptances during the ED/EA round.)

YMMV. Also, obviously these rules are by no means iron clad and there are always exceptions.

Not sue about money as differentiating factor within the legacy pool itself. The private school legacy admits I know at HYP are a mixed bag economically. Overall they tend to skew upper middle class. But, there are as many academician or government lawyer families (probably small but consistent givers) as there are truly wealthy ones with the capacity to make sizable donations. FA versus full pay not a big consideration as this group as a whole is going to have far fewer FA students than the overall school ratio, which can run as high as 60%.

I don't necessarily disagree. I'm basing my theory on the fact that a lot of HYP from privates seem to come at the ED/EA round, which is obviously an easier round for getting in, but which also tends to send a signal that money and FA are less important to the family. I've wondered for a while if colleges use the ED/EA round to get the full pay kids who will finance the FA kids (full disclosure: DC got in during the ED/EA round). Of course, EA (but not ED) means that you don't have to go if you don't like the FA package that's eventually awarded, but overall I think EA and ED are both games for better-off families. A family of two government lawyers isn't going to qualify for FA anyway, but if they saved well they could finance HYP. These are just my impressions, though, and I could well be wrong.

Agree with you in case of ED, but HYP are all EA. How does EA favor wealthy families? Not disputing your point, just trying to understand what you mean. I would think that a lower SES student would benefit from EA, because it would mean that they would have to pay fewer application fees, fees for forwarding testing, etc., esp. if they don't qualify for fee waivers. Also, less time working on applications a help if you have a job.

[Anonymous]

Also, my guess would be that EA round would skew towards higher SES because that's the round that favors legacies and athletes, who tend to have higher SES. Elimination of EA would just mean those kids would get in RD, which wouldn't favor lower SES kids.

[Anonymous]

Legacies, I am sure, have higher than average SES. Athletes are probably a mixed bag. The sports with the largest number of admissions slots are likely to be football (20-25 per year), swimming (15-20) and track & field (20-25). Preppy sports like lacrosse, soccer, crew, squash and tennis have relatively few slots.

The old argument that EA favors higher SES students is primarily based upon awareness and guidance. The theory was that kids from private schools and publics in wealthier neighborhoods would have much more exposure to places like HYP earlier in the search process, and could apply more freely without consideration of ability to pay (this was the reason cited by Harvard some years ago when they did away with EA altogether). Each of these schools has worked hard to overcome this natural advantage through targeted outreach programs to lower SES candidates. Overall, these programs have borne fruit, as demonstrated by the growing number of Pell Grant eligible students at each of these institutions, and the fact that Harvard reinstated EA about four years ago. Can't comment on whether or not these lower SES students came in through EA or the regular pool.

[Anonymous]

ED favors applicants with money because they won't know their actual financial aid package until spring, by which point they will have had to commit. Even though inadequate aid is the one legitimate reason to get out of that commitment, most families I know that really need to consider aid packages do not apply early.

For both EA and ED you need to line everything up early and that often requires good college guidance. Those of you who have been through the process and know how much your DC had to scramble to meet those deadlines can imagine what it would be like if you didn't have (1) a parent who went to a competitive college and is familiar with the process, and/0r (2) a good college guidance counselor who will be on top of you for what you need with enough time to get it done.

And, I think more privileged kids take the SAT earlier (and more often).

Of course there are many examples of working class and poor applicants who apply and get in early.

[Anonymous]

There are many from all income levels who get in early. Harvard reported that for last year's incoming class, 60% of the students were on need based aid. A lot of kids of lesser means are clearly figuring this out.

[Anonymous]

HYP are all EA, which means that the acceptance decision can happen with all financial aid information on the table. I also know of ED acceptances to Columbia who de-committed for financial reasons. The FA packages of most of the Ivy schools are quite competitive with, or exceed in most cases, the aid that other private schools offer and can be comparable to in-state costs for flagship state schools. While it can be a bit complicated to maneuver through this maze of options, I don't think that the right strategy is to give up before you assess if it might work for you. Especially now that EA slots are eating up more and more of the total admits at these highly selective schools.