Jay Mathews Points Readers in Wrong Direction on Top Charters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school system is that makeup because most white families will not send their kid to any public school other than these HRCs. If they don't get in, they will go private or move out of DC. Is that what you want? As an AA parent, I am pleased to belong to a school that represent the city in which we live.

So you are ok with schools that are 80-100% AA? In a city that is 38% white?

Can't do anything about that (other than busing which would not work in a system where we are) when the schools you mention are not appealing to white families, are isolated and maily in areas were the population represent the student demos. My ward 8 school is 99% black and the neighborhood in which I live is 99% black.

I don't know if you are the first poster quoted but that poster was proud their school represented the CITY in which we live. I was simply wondering if they meant that.

[Anonymous]

Shouldn't he be more concerned with lets say, Lafayette's/Brent's/Mann's demographics than the charters?

[Anonymous]

Hey I agree with you. I'm just relaying our experience. You're lucky if you haven't come across it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many educators in HRCs feel the same way as Martel. They're in education to help poor minority kids succeed. If those kids do not get access to the better schools the achievement gap will grow. The poor families' hope is on a charter since they can't afford Wotp. When a white middle class kid takes a spot, there is palpable disappointment whether you realize it or not.

Wait. What? That's obscene. "when a white middle class kid TAKES a spot". FU. White kids have as much right to a quality public education and any other kid. Thats racist and inflammatory in the extreme and not worthy of any educator I know.

+1 why don't these educators with an interest in only teaching poor minority kids go straight to the source and teach in a DCPS school EOTR?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't he be more concerned with lets say, Lafayette's/Brent's/Mann's demographics than the charters?

What's your point? These are neighborhood schools which are attended by in-bound students.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Matthews and Martel that some of those numbers are way out of wack.

Washington Latin Lower School (41.7 percent)
BASIS Middle School (33.9?percent)
Washington Latin High School (23.9 percent)
Washington Yu Ying elementary school (22.2 percent)

If the pool of students is only 5 - 10% white, it takes some heavy duty self-selection (probable) or something nefarious (unlikely) to get to those percentages. Reminds me of SWS, another school with miraculously high white enrollment (67%).

If nothing else, this could shed some light on comparisons between HRCS and DCPS. If HRCS's have a built in 20-30% boost in high SES enrollment, then those average DC-CAS scores should be that much higher than DCPS, not slightly above par.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Matthews and Martel that some of those numbers are way out of wack.

Washington Latin Lower School (41.7 percent)
BASIS Middle School (33.9?percent)
Washington Latin High School (23.9 percent)
Washington Yu Ying elementary school (22.2 percent)

If the pool of students is only 5 - 10% white, it takes some heavy duty self-selection (probable) or something nefarious (unlikely) to get to those percentages. Reminds me of SWS, another school with miraculously high white enrollment (67%).

If nothing else, this could shed some light on comparisons between HRCS and DCPS. If HRCS's have a built in 20-30% boost in high SES enrollment, then those average DC-CAS scores should be that much higher than DCPS, not slightly above par.

I don't think you are looking at the numbers in the right way. Enrollment should match the population of the city not the kids enrolled in public schools. Point being that many families (black and white) have enrolled their children in these schools but would not consider their neighborhood public school. if excluded from these charters yhey would either move or go private. So if you kick these kids out of the charters, the numbers across the city are not going to re-balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Matthews and Martel that some of those numbers are way out of wack.

Washington Latin Lower School (41.7 percent)
BASIS Middle School (33.9?percent)
Washington Latin High School (23.9 percent)
Washington Yu Ying elementary school (22.2 percent)

If the pool of students is only 5 - 10% white, it takes some heavy duty self-selection (probable) or something nefarious (unlikely) to get to those percentages. Reminds me of SWS, another school with miraculously high white enrollment (67%).

If nothing else, this could shed some light on comparisons between HRCS and DCPS. If HRCS's have a built in 20-30% boost in high SES enrollment, then those average DC-CAS scores should be that much higher than DCPS, not slightly above par.

I don't think you are looking at the numbers in the right way. Enrollment should match the population of the city not the kids enrolled in public schools. Point being that many families (black and white) have enrolled their children in these schools but would not consider their neighborhood public school. if excluded from these charters yhey would either move or go private. So if you kick these kids out of the charters, the numbers across the city are not going to re-balance.

PP here. I, for one, am not suggesting that any child get kicked out of any school. Parents should send their kids where they can get the best education. But I am saying that when education statisticians compare academic results between DCPS and HRCS, they should probably note that the schools may not be pulling kids from the same deck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Matthews and Martel that some of those numbers are way out of wack.

Washington Latin Lower School (41.7 percent)
BASIS Middle School (33.9?percent)
Washington Latin High School (23.9 percent)
Washington Yu Ying elementary school (22.2 percent)

If the pool of students is only 5 - 10% white, it takes some heavy duty self-selection (probable) or something nefarious (unlikely) to get to those percentages. Reminds me of SWS, another school with miraculously high white enrollment (67%).

If nothing else, this could shed some light on comparisons between HRCS and DCPS. If HRCS's have a built in 20-30% boost in high SES enrollment, then those average DC-CAS scores should be that much higher than DCPS, not slightly above par.

I don't think you are looking at the numbers in the right way. Enrollment should match the population of the city not the kids enrolled in public schools. Point being that many families (black and white) have enrolled their children in these schools but would not consider their neighborhood public school. if excluded from these charters yhey would either move or go private. So if you kick these kids out of the charters, the numbers across the city are not going to re-balance.

Thank you. Are you people really that dense? How can you not get it? I guarantee you that if a white family did not get into Basis or Latin for middle school, they will not be attending any other charter in the city. These schools should be praised for being an acceptable alternative for what would otherwise be fleeing students. These school represent the city's population and is doing so organically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Matthews and Martel that some of those numbers are way out of wack.

Washington Latin Lower School (41.7 percent)
BASIS Middle School (33.9?percent)
Washington Latin High School (23.9 percent)
Washington Yu Ying elementary school (22.2 percent)

If the pool of students is only 5 - 10% white, it takes some heavy duty self-selection (probable) or something nefarious (unlikely) to get to those percentages. Reminds me of SWS, another school with miraculously high white enrollment (67%).

If nothing else, this could shed some light on comparisons between HRCS and DCPS. If HRCS's have a built in 20-30% boost in high SES enrollment, then those average DC-CAS scores should be that much higher than DCPS, not slightly above par.

I don't think you are looking at the numbers in the right way. Enrollment should match the population of the city not the kids enrolled in public schools. Point being that many families (black and white) have enrolled their children in these schools but would not consider their neighborhood public school. if excluded from these charters yhey would either move or go private. So if you kick these kids out of the charters, the numbers across the city are not going to re-balance.

Thank you. Are you people really that dense? How can you not get it? I guarantee you that if a white family did not get into Basis or Latin for middle school, they will not be attending any other charter in the city. These schools should be praised for being an acceptable alternative for what would otherwise be fleeing students. These school represent the city's population and is doing so organically.

The original premise of charter schools was that they would bring an opportunity higher educational standards for every child, especially "inner city" youth. Now, some of them seem to be morphing into publically funded enclaves for connected families. I'm a big fan of the common lottery, but some of these demographic trends seem to have been baked into the cake before the lottery was implemented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Matthews and Martel that some of those numbers are way out of wack.

Washington Latin Lower School (41.7 percent)
BASIS Middle School (33.9?percent)
Washington Latin High School (23.9 percent)
Washington Yu Ying elementary school (22.2 percent)

If the pool of students is only 5 - 10% white, it takes some heavy duty self-selection (probable) or something nefarious (unlikely) to get to those percentages. Reminds me of SWS, another school with miraculously high white enrollment (67%).

If nothing else, this could shed some light on comparisons between HRCS and DCPS. If HRCS's have a built in 20-30% boost in high SES enrollment, then those average DC-CAS scores should be that much higher than DCPS, not slightly above par.

I don't think you are looking at the numbers in the right way. Enrollment should match the population of the city not the kids enrolled in public schools. Point being that many families (black and white) have enrolled their children in these schools but would not consider their neighborhood public school. if excluded from these charters yhey would either move or go private. So if you kick these kids out of the charters, the numbers across the city are not going to re-balance.

Thank you. Are you people really that dense? How can you not get it? I guarantee you that if a white family did not get into Basis or Latin for middle school, they will not be attending any other charter in the city. These schools should be praised for being an acceptable alternative for what would otherwise be fleeing students. These school represent the city's population and is doing so organically.

I agree and have made this point many times when the "skimming" accusations rear up. Just look at DCUM if you want to know what high SES parents are thinking. They FLOODED new and unproven Lee Montessori, and some have suggested closing and re-opening Hardy in order to make it more attractive, despite Hardy's status as a DCPS success story in the making. It's clear that many parents will move or take a chance on a new school in a heartbeat over nearly any DCPS offering. It's not skimming if you never had those parents to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps there are a couple exceptions, but I genuinely do not believe that charters rig their lotteries to enroll more white kids. I think what happens is a new charter is approved after lots of hard work by involved parents many of whom are white and educated. They create buzz among their white and educated friends long before the school is approved and opens. The first year a lottery is held for the new, untested charter there are lots of white, educated parents who are in the know and take the risk and jump onboard. After one or two years that new charter is now officially considered "highly regarded" and everyone is now aware of it, including poor children, from less affluent, less educated families. By the time they enter the lottery for the new "hot" charter many of the PS3 and PK spots are already going to younger siblings of those first families who took the risk the year or two prior, leaving just a handful for "new" families. Not to mention children of founders...and starting next year...children of staff. It's a wonder any new families who weren't involved or knowledgeable of the development of the new charter get a spot in the first decade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many educators in HRCs feel the same way as Martel. They're in education to help poor minority kids succeed. If those kids do not get access to the better schools the achievement gap will grow. The poor families' hope is on a charter since they can't afford Wotp. When a white middle class kid takes a spot, there is palpable disappointment whether you realize it or not.

Wait. What? That's obscene. "when a white middle class kid TAKES a spot". FU. White kids have as much right to a quality public education and any other kid. Thats racist and inflammatory in the extreme and not worthy of any educator I know.

+1 why don't these educators with an interest in only teaching poor minority kids go straight to the source and teach in a DCPS school EOTR?

I agree that white ks and rich kids, whatever background, also have a right to free and public and quality education. Come to think of it, all kids do..the more hgh quality public and public charter, the more spots for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with Matthews and Martel that some of those numbers are way out of wack.

Washington Latin Lower School (41.7 percent)
BASIS Middle School (33.9?percent)
Washington Latin High School (23.9 percent)
Washington Yu Ying elementary school (22.2 percent)

If the pool of students is only 5 - 10% white, it takes some heavy duty self-selection (probable) or something nefarious (unlikely) to get to those percentages. Reminds me of SWS, another school with miraculously high white enrollment (67%).

If nothing else, this could shed some light on comparisons between HRCS and DCPS. If HRCS's have a built in 20-30% boost in high SES enrollment, then those average DC-CAS scores should be that much higher than DCPS, not slightly above par.

I don't think you are looking at the numbers in the right way. Enrollment should match the population of the city not the kids enrolled in public schools. Point being that many families (black and white) have enrolled their children in these schools but would not consider their neighborhood public school. if excluded from these charters yhey would either move or go private. So if you kick these kids out of the charters, the numbers across the city are not going to re-balance.

Thank you. Are you people really that dense? How can you not get it? I guarantee you that if a white family did not get into Basis or Latin for middle school, they will not be attending any other charter in the city. These schools should be praised for being an acceptable alternative for what would otherwise be fleeing students. These school represent the city's population and is doing so organically.

The original premise of charter schools was that they would bring an opportunity higher educational standards for every child, especially "inner city" youth. Now, some of them seem to be morphing into publically funded enclaves for connected families. I'm a big fan of the common lottery, but some of these demographic trends seem to have been baked into the cake before the lottery was implemented.

Isn't there a contradiction in saying "for every child/especially..." How bout we stick.with for every child?

[Anonymous]

There is absolutely nothing "out of whack" about a white percentage of 30-40%. That *IS* the actual percentage.

What IS "out of whack" is that most other schools, especially most DCPS schools have a far smaller percentage of white students.

The fact that some of the charters are starting to reflect the actual proportion (38%) is something that we should be taking note of - from the perspective of celebrating success. It's showing that public schooling actually can be a viable option, rather than chasing everyone to privates or the burbs as had been happening for decades.

[Anonymous]

My children live in NE less than a mile from the center of the city. Let's stop the term "inner city youth" if what you actually mean is "poor black and brown youth".

I'm tired of hearing how Washington DC should be for all the people in all 8 wards and all children should have high quality education -- when the people who say that really mean we should only focus resources on the least among us and screw anyone who is white and/or moderately successful.

The new middle class in DC is not necessarily all AA and not able to afford $40k a year for private school, but we have bought homes and pay our taxes. If you don't want us to stay, block us out of the charters that keep us here, because our IB options are bad. We will flee to the suburbs and Martel can have his educational utopia of ensconced rich kids in private schools/ward 3 DCPS and hard-case kids in the charters.