Anyone observe math or reading in elementary this year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This bothers me too. My child is so bored and spends most of her time in groups explaining to kids who aren't nearly as strong, what to do. I mean are they differentiating them so the kids can now teach? I am all for helping here and there but to constantly group the highest with the lowest is basically a child who is asking to become a teacher's aide. Why they can not just track these kids and keep them in like classes so the teachers don't have to constantly do groups, is beyond me.

'

This is exactly what I have observed. At our school, they have made it clear that 'working together in groups' is a priority. So, this is what goes on. The kids who are stronger in a subject (usually reading/math) are helping out the kids who are not as strong. I think there IS a place for that, because you do learn by teaching others. But, it goes on daily.

Yesterday, we observed the teacher give the kids an activity while she pulled the 5 (FIVE!!) reading groups up to her desk. The activity was way over some of the kids' heads. The kids who did understand what needed to be done were able to complete it quickly and then just spent the rest of the time helping the other kids (who didn't seem to grasp the point of it anyway).

Each reading group only got about 15 minutes of direct instruction, if that.

If the point of K-2nd grade is to get the kids reading, then they should group the classrooms by reading levels. 2 or 3 reading levels in a class. So there is still room for advancement/movement. But, the teacher isn't trying to squeeze in 5 reading groups during an hour or 75 minute block of time.

They kids are evaluated anyway, and it would be easy to place them in 1st and 2nd grade based on what their reading level was the previous year.

I agree but the reason they don't do this is because of diversity. Because most of the lower range kids would be the ESOL and FARMS students. Mostly hispanic and black. And then they would cry racism. So they keep the classes looking uniform. Split between gender, race and level. It benefits no one but the parents who think it looks good. The teachers are scrambling.

PP, please don't bring race into this. It will just turn off other people to this discussion. I think there are valid points being presented in this thread, and making this about race won't be constructive, IMO.

+1 My 1st grader class has a few ESOL students who are Japanese - probably kids of foreign service personnel. Should we not allow these kids into our schools? And yet, DC's class still has these issues.

Ugh, no where did I say to not have ESOL. You are misreading what I am saying. Most kids in these younger groups that are struggling with reading are ESOL (no matter what their race) and if you put all 15-20 of them and 5 non-ESOL kids in the same class, those 5 parents would not be happy no matter what color the other kids are. That is 15 kids that can not speak English to them. That is 15 kids the teacher can not truly communicate with. They need to be spread out so they do not track the kids, they differentiate. As the kids get older the 3rd and 5th tests results show that many hispanic and AA kids can not pass the tests. So by that guess, they would be in the lower groups and then people would pass judgement on the higher groups with Asians and whites and maybe only a few other minority students.

I know in my daughter's K class there are 8 out of 25 kids that get pulled in ESOL and we are only 28% ESOL school. Are you really going to take all the other ESOL kids from the other 3 K classes and put them in one class for one teacher? Because wouldn't most of them be in the lowest reading levels? There is just too much diversity for elementary schools to track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You could homeschool in one day more than what MCPS teaches directly to your child in a week. That is not an exaggeration. Most kids spend their day in free time with the new differentiation groups.

OK, so homeschool.

Well I work so I can not but I did send my 2 oldest to private by 3rd grade and plan to do the same for my youngest. If I was a SAHM and could not afford private, I would 100% homeschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
4th grade math, non-compacted.
Very simple math problem.
All the kids wanted to blurt out the answer (if the velociraptor is 6 feet long, and the stegosaurus is 5 times longer, how long is the stego?).
The teacher had to stick to the curriculum and try to teach them how to think out the multiple unconscious steps to get the answer, using algebraic equations.

I understand the desire to formalize and verbalize everything, but for my son, it's really just confusing what would otherwise have been a very organic, easy answer. He couldn't solve the rest of the sheet of problems by himself, because he was stuck on answering them the "correct" way, instead of just multiplying in his head.

2.0 math is driving me crazy.

Aren't they all supposed to be in the same place in 2.0 across all ESs? I sat through 4th grade, non-compacted math and they were doing subtraction of higher order numbers and then multistep word problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This bothers me too. My child is so bored and spends most of her time in groups explaining to kids who aren't nearly as strong, what to do. I mean are they differentiating them so the kids can now teach? I am all for helping here and there but to constantly group the highest with the lowest is basically a child who is asking to become a teacher's aide. Why they can not just track these kids and keep them in like classes so the teachers don't have to constantly do groups, is beyond me.

'

This is exactly what I have observed. At our school, they have made it clear that 'working together in groups' is a priority. So, this is what goes on. The kids who are stronger in a subject (usually reading/math) are helping out the kids who are not as strong. I think there IS a place for that, because you do learn by teaching others. But, it goes on daily.

Yesterday, we observed the teacher give the kids an activity while she pulled the 5 (FIVE!!) reading groups up to her desk. The activity was way over some of the kids' heads. The kids who did understand what needed to be done were able to complete it quickly and then just spent the rest of the time helping the other kids (who didn't seem to grasp the point of it anyway).

Each reading group only got about 15 minutes of direct instruction, if that.

If the point of K-2nd grade is to get the kids reading, then they should group the classrooms by reading levels. 2 or 3 reading levels in a class. So there is still room for advancement/movement. But, the teacher isn't trying to squeeze in 5 reading groups during an hour or 75 minute block of time.

They kids are evaluated anyway, and it would be easy to place them in 1st and 2nd grade based on what their reading level was the previous year.

I agree but the reason they don't do this is because of diversity. Because most of the lower range kids would be the ESOL and FARMS students. Mostly hispanic and black. And then they would cry racism. So they keep the classes looking uniform. Split between gender, race and level. It benefits no one but the parents who think it looks good. The teachers are scrambling.

I don't really care about the ESOL or FARMS students. I was an ESOL kid. Took me some time to catch up, but then it was fine. However, at my school (different state), the ESOL kids were taught completely separate, in their own classroom, with their own ESOL teacher. At my DD's school, they are thrown in with the other K/1st graders and pulled out for ESOL time.

And, even if there were no ESOL/FARMS students, there will always be kids at different levels.

I still feel that there should be differentiated classrooms. Meaning, the whole classroom should have a max of 2 or 3 different reading groups. This whole business of 5 different reading groups is just ridiculous. It benefits noone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ugh, no where did I say to not have ESOL. You are misreading what I am saying. Most kids in these younger groups that are struggling with reading are ESOL (no matter what their race) and if you put all 15-20 of them and 5 non-ESOL kids in the same class, those 5 parents would not be happy no matter what color the other kids are. That is 15 kids that can not speak English to them. That is 15 kids the teacher can not truly communicate with. They need to be spread out so they do not track the kids, they differentiate. As the kids get older the 3rd and 5th tests results show that many hispanic and AA kids can not pass the tests. So by that guess, they would be in the lower groups and then people would pass judgement on the higher groups with Asians and whites and maybe only a few other minority students.

In which elementary schools, after kindergarten, are there 15 kids per grade who speak no English?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ugh, no where did I say to not have ESOL. You are misreading what I am saying. Most kids in these younger groups that are struggling with reading are ESOL (no matter what their race) and if you put all 15-20 of them and 5 non-ESOL kids in the same class, those 5 parents would not be happy no matter what color the other kids are. That is 15 kids that can not speak English to them. That is 15 kids the teacher can not truly communicate with. They need to be spread out so they do not track the kids, they differentiate. As the kids get older the 3rd and 5th tests results show that many hispanic and AA kids can not pass the tests. So by that guess, they would be in the lower groups and then people would pass judgement on the higher groups with Asians and whites and maybe only a few other minority students.

In which elementary schools, after kindergarten, are there 15 kids per grade who speak no English?

Is this a joke? About half of MCPS elementary schools. Heck there are 15 per grade in some high schools too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ugh, no where did I say to not have ESOL. You are misreading what I am saying. Most kids in these younger groups that are struggling with reading are ESOL (no matter what their race) and if you put all 15-20 of them and 5 non-ESOL kids in the same class, those 5 parents would not be happy no matter what color the other kids are. That is 15 kids that can not speak English to them. That is 15 kids the teacher can not truly communicate with. They need to be spread out so they do not track the kids, they differentiate. As the kids get older the 3rd and 5th tests results show that many hispanic and AA kids can not pass the tests. So by that guess, they would be in the lower groups and then people would pass judgement on the higher groups with Asians and whites and maybe only a few other minority students.

In which elementary schools, after kindergarten, are there 15 kids per grade who speak no English?

Is this a joke? About half of MCPS elementary schools. Heck there are 15 per grade in some high schools too.

Who speak no English? I'm not talking about ESOL. I'm talking about not speaking any English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it depends on the teacher.

I've observed my 3rd grader last year in math, and while they did work in groups, the teacher walked around and interacted with all the groups, and sometimes would pause to address the whole class about something.

It is a bit disappointing sometimes because my DC is very good at math, and DC told me that often times, the teacher would pair DC with a child who was weaker in math on purpose, and DC would end up explaining a lot to this other kid. Now, this can also benefit DC as well - having to explain something to someone makes DC really think about that subject. But at times, DC was bored. DC in now in compacted math, and they still work in groups.

I agree that if you want your kids to have a lot of differentiation, that is not going to happen in a large public school.

I once read an article on BBC News about how UK educators wanted to observe how the Chinese math teachers taught their kids. What they noticed was that in the UK, and here, the kids work in groups, while in China, it's the teacher dealing with the whole class, the way they used to teach math here, the way I grew up. In the Chinese class, the teacher would ask a math question, and the children had to raise a card up with the right answer. The teacher could see immediately which kid was having difficulty and could work with that kid earlier on; vs. in small groups, it takes the teacher longer to figure out who is having difficulty. I could see this as a valid argument.

I don't know when and why educators here decided to have small groups.

Please do not assume that teachers have this kind of say in what goes on in their own classroom. In most cases, they don't decide.

This. I became very close with DD's first grade teacher last year, and this is SO true. They don't have much control over how/what is taught. Which can be a good thing, because it keeps things uniform. But, it can also be a bad thing when teachers aren't allowed to use their creativity anymore.

Teachers have no say about what goes on in our own classrooms. We are told what the day will look like. This year, the county's focus is small group instruction. Next year it may be something different. There is no time to figure out ways to make it work and by the time you've figured out a way to make it work the county is on to the next newest initiative.

Admin tells you what your day should look like and touts the county's latest initiative at preservice week. Then you'd better have it up and running by the 2nd week of school. Some people drink the koolaid. The others who know what works best for their students are told to fall in line if they dare to do something different than what they were told to do.

The people who make these decisions haven't been in a classroom in years, if ever. It's beyond frustrating and I'm getting to the point where I don't want to be a puppet anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ugh, no where did I say to not have ESOL. You are misreading what I am saying. Most kids in these younger groups that are struggling with reading are ESOL (no matter what their race) and if you put all 15-20 of them and 5 non-ESOL kids in the same class, those 5 parents would not be happy no matter what color the other kids are. That is 15 kids that can not speak English to them. That is 15 kids the teacher can not truly communicate with. They need to be spread out so they do not track the kids, they differentiate. As the kids get older the 3rd and 5th tests results show that many hispanic and AA kids can not pass the tests. So by that guess, they would be in the lower groups and then people would pass judgement on the higher groups with Asians and whites and maybe only a few other minority students.

In which elementary schools, after kindergarten, are there 15 kids per grade who speak no English?

Is this a joke? About half of MCPS elementary schools. Heck there are 15 per grade in some high schools too.

Who speak no English? I'm not talking about ESOL. I'm talking about not speaking any English.

Yes there is currently 4 in my child's 2nd grade class and we are in a 23% ESOL so not that high compared to others. You do realize how transient this area is and how many diplomat kids, illegal aliens, and other kids from various countries come in and out of school at all levels. They don't just all start in K. High schools in MCPS receive hundreds of illegal orphans from Honduras, El Salvador, etc each year. They don't speak any English.

Seriously, you must be in a lily white school to be so clueless.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/30/border-crisis-fuels-surge-immigrant-enrollment-mon/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it depends on the teacher.

I've observed my 3rd grader last year in math, and while they did work in groups, the teacher walked around and interacted with all the groups, and sometimes would pause to address the whole class about something.

It is a bit disappointing sometimes because my DC is very good at math, and DC told me that often times, the teacher would pair DC with a child who was weaker in math on purpose, and DC would end up explaining a lot to this other kid. Now, this can also benefit DC as well - having to explain something to someone makes DC really think about that subject. But at times, DC was bored. DC in now in compacted math, and they still work in groups.

I agree that if you want your kids to have a lot of differentiation, that is not going to happen in a large public school.

I once read an article on BBC News about how UK educators wanted to observe how the Chinese math teachers taught their kids. What they noticed was that in the UK, and here, the kids work in groups, while in China, it's the teacher dealing with the whole class, the way they used to teach math here, the way I grew up. In the Chinese class, the teacher would ask a math question, and the children had to raise a card up with the right answer. The teacher could see immediately which kid was having difficulty and could work with that kid earlier on; vs. in small groups, it takes the teacher longer to figure out who is having difficulty. I could see this as a valid argument.

I don't know when and why educators here decided to have small groups.

Please do not assume that teachers have this kind of say in what goes on in their own classroom. In most cases, they don't decide.

This. I became very close with DD's first grade teacher last year, and this is SO true. They don't have much control over how/what is taught. Which can be a good thing, because it keeps things uniform. But, it can also be a bad thing when teachers aren't allowed to use their creativity anymore.

Teachers have no say about what goes on in our own classrooms. We are told what the day will look like. This year, the county's focus is small group instruction. Next year it may be something different. There is no time to figure out ways to make it work and by the time you've figured out a way to make it work the county is on to the next newest initiative.

Admin tells you what your day should look like and touts the county's latest initiative at preservice week. Then you'd better have it up and running by the 2nd week of school. Some people drink the koolaid. The others who know what works best for their students are told to fall in line if they dare to do something different than what they were told to do.

The people who make these decisions haven't been in a classroom in years, if ever. It's beyond frustrating and I'm getting to the point where I don't want to be a puppet anymore.

You can actually go to MCPS website and see how the ENTIRE curriculum, week by week for EVERY grade is online. The first thing I thought of is "It must totally suck to be a teacher in MCPS" Talk about making creative teachers into a bunch of drones

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You can actually go to MCPS website and see how the ENTIRE curriculum, week by week for EVERY grade is online. The first thing I thought of is "It must totally suck to be a teacher in MCPS" Talk about making creative teachers into a bunch of drones

And still MCPS parents scream about lack of transparency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes there is currently 4 in my child's 2nd grade class and we are in a 23% ESOL so not that high compared to others. You do realize how transient this area is and how many diplomat kids, illegal aliens, and other kids from various countries come in and out of school at all levels. They don't just all start in K. High schools in MCPS receive hundreds of illegal orphans from Honduras, El Salvador, etc each year. They don't speak any English.

Seriously, you must be in a lily white school to be so clueless.

No, my child's elementary school is about 25% white and about 15% ESOL.

MCPS says that 70% of ESOL students were born in the US. I'd also like to see a reference supporting your assertion that high schools in MCPS receive hundreds of orphans from Central America each year.

Also, when PPs talk about ESOL students who are bringing the whole class down, I doubt that they are referring to the children of diplomats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes there is currently 4 in my child's 2nd grade class and we are in a 23% ESOL so not that high compared to others. You do realize how transient this area is and how many diplomat kids, illegal aliens, and other kids from various countries come in and out of school at all levels. They don't just all start in K. High schools in MCPS receive hundreds of illegal orphans from Honduras, El Salvador, etc each year. They don't speak any English.

Seriously, you must be in a lily white school to be so clueless.

No, my child's elementary school is about 25% white and about 15% ESOL.

MCPS says that 70% of ESOL students were born in the US. I'd also like to see a reference supporting your assertion that high schools in MCPS receive hundreds of orphans from Central America each year.

Also, when PPs talk about ESOL students who are bringing the whole class down, I doubt that they are referring to the children of diplomats.

I guess you didn't read the article then? I can see the numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes there is currently 4 in my child's 2nd grade class and we are in a 23% ESOL so not that high compared to others. You do realize how transient this area is and how many diplomat kids, illegal aliens, and other kids from various countries come in and out of school at all levels. They don't just all start in K. High schools in MCPS receive hundreds of illegal orphans from Honduras, El Salvador, etc each year. They don't speak any English.

Seriously, you must be in a lily white school to be so clueless.

No, my child's elementary school is about 25% white and about 15% ESOL.

MCPS says that 70% of ESOL students were born in the US. I'd also like to see a reference supporting your assertion that high schools in MCPS receive hundreds of orphans from Central America each year.

Also, when PPs talk about ESOL students who are bringing the whole class down, I doubt that they are referring to the children of diplomats.

I guess you didn't read the article then? I can see the numbers.

No, I don't read the Washington Times, because I wouldn't believe the Washington Times if they told me that the sun rises in the east. If this is factual information that is widely known, then it must appear in other sources as well. If it only appears in the Washington Times...