Non-vax and public schools... ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just sign the religious waiver. It does not ask you what religion you are so you can worship the man on the moon who tells you not to vaccinate and that is fine. We did the waiver for a few years and had no issue. We do vaccinate but did it on a delayed schedule. It was our only choice so we signed it and it was no big deal. We did catch up by five but we will always sign it as we will not do more than 2 at a time.

Its not lying by signing the form.

Here is the form:

http://phpa.dhmh.maryland.gov/OIDEOR/IMMUN/Shared%20Documents/896_form.pdf

There are two grounds for exemption, the medical contraindication and the religious exemption. The medical contraindication says, "The above child has a valid medical contraindication to being immunized at this time". A medical provider signs the medical contraindication.

The religious exemption is "Because of my bona fide religious beliefs and practices, I object to any immunizations being given to my child." If the reason you don't vaccinate is your bona fide religious beliefs and practices, then you're not lying when you sign the form. If the reason you don't vaccinate is anything else, other than a medical contraindication, then yes, you actually are lying when you sign the form.

I'm not going to argue about whether I feel it is lying (I do - but I also don't think a lie is always a great moral failing and I certainly don't think it is in this case). But "religious beliefs and practices" is an elastic term that can comfortably stretch to include many things, and I am sure many who sign the form don't feel they are lying.

For most religions (Catholic included, since that's what the OP mentioned), their bona fide religious beliefs and practices are anything but elastic. That's kinda the point. There's a whole catechism to teach you what is and isn't a bona fide Catholic belief. Kids go to Hebrew school and Jewish Day Schools to learn the set of Jewish beliefs that are specific to their religion, and very much inelastic. Same with pretty much every other religion. A religion defines itself by its set of "bona fide" beliefs. For some religions, those beliefs really truly include no (or limited) medical intervention. For most, they do not.

How someone who actually does practice a religion (say Catholicism) can in good Faith sign that form is beyond me. It's basically heresy. Sure, the school may accept it, but I doubt their priest or rabbi or imam would be thrilled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have to disagree. "Religious beliefs and practices" is only an elastic term for people who choose, and are permitted, to make it so. It's a convenient lie (and let's call it a lie, because it is) for ignorant, paranoid, selfish people who want to exploit the herd immunity created by the responsible and well-educated among us, and who are totally fine with endangering our precious children with their unvaccinated ones. (Who I feel very sorry for, both for their health risks and the misfortunate to be born to such self-centered and stupid parents.) I am passionate about almost nothing else as much as I'm passionate about this issue. Anti-vaxxers disgust me. The fact that anyone is still hanging on to these totally discredited, debunked b.s. ideas is just pathetic, and so dangerous.

YES!! +1000.

+1

We know someone at our elementary school who incited a riot at recess because she refused to vax her child. Turns out, everyone else was vax'ed (imagine that! Lucky for her, oh ignorant one!). One of the vax'ed parents got c-pox, and was home being responsible and taking care of it. The anti vax'er got wind of it, incited a riot, now her family is on the troublemaker list at school Now, no matter what she says, she is not credible, because of her stance AND what resulted from it (her inability to shut her big mouth).

Turns out, she asked the other moms what they do, and she lies to be in accordance with them. The administration knows everything. She would be better off keeping her mouth shut, but she is too stupid to realize.

Don't worry, it comes back to bite them in the arse, one way or the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's gonna be sweet when polio comes back and all these kids get paralyzed.

/sarcasm

Wishing paralysis on kids? You're a sicko

She's not a sicko. She's stating what is going to happen to some of these kids as a result of their parents' decisions. It's tragic, but true. Polio is on the rise again in South Asia.

[Anonymous]

Not usually a problem in MD, the wackos congregate more in VA anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not usually a problem in MD, the wackos congregate more in VA anyway.

It is a very very small minoirty everywhere, but VA does have a higher number of libertarian types. MD will have their share as well, espeically near Takoma. The place to go for super super high vax compliance is DC (and they require more vaxes!). There are no libertarians in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's gonna be sweet when polio comes back and all these kids get paralyzed.

/sarcasm

Many people are delaying or going on an alternative schedule. And, if your child is vaccinated, then you are you making such a big stink over it. Your child is 100% covered if you fully trust them so it should not be an issue.

I see you're not acquainted with the concept of herd immunity, Junior.

Yikes, this is exactly the ignorance that is putting our country at risk for diseases previously wiped out. You, lady, are just plain stupid and your stupidity will affect those around you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's gonna be sweet when polio comes back and all these kids get paralyzed.

/sarcasm

Wishing paralysis on kids? You're a sicko

Wow, you are not very bright are you? Do you know the definition of sarcasm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You just sign the religious waiver. It does not ask you what religion you are so you can worship the man on the moon who tells you not to vaccinate and that is fine. We did the waiver for a few years and had no issue. We do vaccinate but did it on a delayed schedule. It was our only choice so we signed it and it was no big deal. We did catch up by five but we will always sign it as we will not do more than 2 at a time.

Its not lying by signing the form.

This is correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just sign the religious waiver. It does not ask you what religion you are so you can worship the man on the moon who tells you not to vaccinate and that is fine. We did the waiver for a few years and had no issue. We do vaccinate but did it on a delayed schedule. It was our only choice so we signed it and it was no big deal. We did catch up by five but we will always sign it as we will not do more than 2 at a time.

Its not lying by signing the form.

Same here - we were completely caught up by age 5 except chicken pox so we continue to sign the form. If child hasn't gotten chicken pox by age 8 or 9 then we'll get the co shots and no longer have to complete the form. I've been at two schools now and no one has ever batted an eye at our using the forms.

That was our plan too with the chicken pox as I'd rather have a natural immunity but they offered us a combo shot so it would be one shot for two things so we took it but that was right before we turned 5.

Please explain why you would want a 'natural immunity' and what the benefits would be? I can see all the pitfalls, such as a child with chicken pox giving the disease to others who can not vaccinate, ie diminishing the effects of herd immunity, or how your unvaccinated child can get seriously ill from the virus. I simply do not get why anyone would want to expose their child (and in consequence the rest of the world) to any disease when there are vaccines? Seriously, I would love to understand your reasoning,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just amazed by the anti/delay vax folks! How do you find the time to devote to all that research? Doctors spend years in medical school. Pharmacists spend almost as long. All those hours of studying and researching! How on earth do you find time to do your regular jobs, parent your kids, AND become experts in immunology?

Makes wonder if you do your own car repairs and root canals as well?

Some of it is common sense. If your child has several sets of vaccinations and has high fevers, cranky and other issues (including an ER visit) common sense is to slow them down. Not everyone can handle the full set. Our docs told us they lump so many together as most parents will not come back more frequently or even for their regularly schedule appointments so they lump them together to make sure the kids get them all. If you show a track record of coming back, they don't care.

And, yes, we do some of our own car repairs, most of our own house repairs and a lot more. I'd rather DIY and send my kid to college.

You really did not get the irony, yet you claim common sense.... Funny how no immunologists, epidemiologists, paediatricians draw those same conclusions. Are they so lacking in common sense, because who cares about their credentials and years of study.

Oh, and yes side effects of vaccines are fevers, crankiness etc...guess why? The immune system is working, that is how immunisations operate....it has NOTHING to do with how many shots you give at once or any schedule. 'Not everyone can handle the full set'. Do you have any, please just one link to peer reviewed scientific research to prove this'?

[Anonymous]

I have to disagree. "Religious beliefs and practices" is only an elastic term for people who choose, and are permitted, to make it so. It's a convenient lie (and let's call it a lie, because it is) for ignorant, paranoid, selfish people who want to exploit the herd immunity created by the responsible and well-educated among us, and who are totally fine with endangering our precious children with their unvaccinated ones. (Who I feel very sorry for, both for their health risks and the misfortunate to be born to such self-centered and stupid parents.) I am passionate about almost nothing else as much as I'm passionate about this issue. Anti-vaxxers disgust me. The fact that anyone is still hanging on to these totally discredited, debunked b.s. ideas is just pathetic, and so dangerous.

'Anti-vaxxers disgust me.The fact that anyone is still hanging on to these totally discredited, debunked b.s. ideas is just pathetic, and so dangerous.'
Me too. Thank you, well put.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Please explain why you would want a 'natural immunity' and what the benefits would be? I can see all the pitfalls, such as a child with chicken pox giving the disease to others who can not vaccinate, ie diminishing the effects of herd immunity, or how your unvaccinated child can get seriously ill from the virus. I simply do not get why anyone would want to expose their child (and in consequence the rest of the world) to any disease when there are vaccines? Seriously, I would love to understand your reasoning,

The reasoning is: natural immunity is better than immunity from vaccinations because natural immunity is natural.

(I do not believe this.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people who want to spread out the shots get any sort of exemption including falsely claiming a religious exemption.

For those who don't want to do too many shots in one visit and want to space out the vaccinations, that's fine. But you know that you'll be entering a public school with rules on having vaccinations by a certain age. So rather than starting at the usual time and pushing the envelope back, make sure that you start early and ensure that all vaccinations are done by the time you enter the public school. So, if you want to space out the shots over a six-month period, try starting six months before the first day of public school and then space them out however you want. You know that you're going to get the vaccinations. You know that you're going to enter a public school that requires vaccinations for the protection of the entire school community. So work with your doctor to get the shots done before the start of school.

Religious exemptions should be for those people who belong to religions who expressly do not allow vaccinations and who will not be getting vaccinations at all.

Or how about NO religious exemptions at all since they are stupid and since unvaccinated kids put immunodeficient children at risk. Why, oh why, do people not listen to reason when it comes to their children's lives and well being but to made up bearded men in the sky? No wonder the world is going down the drain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please explain why you would want a 'natural immunity' and what the benefits would be? I can see all the pitfalls, such as a child with chicken pox giving the disease to others who can not vaccinate, ie diminishing the effects of herd immunity, or how your unvaccinated child can get seriously ill from the virus. I simply do not get why anyone would want to expose their child (and in consequence the rest of the world) to any disease when there are vaccines? Seriously, I would love to understand your reasoning,

The reasoning is: natural immunity is better than immunity from vaccinations because natural immunity is natural.

(I do not believe this.)

AHA! So natural is good? But excuse my dumbness here , isn't the vaccine made from a live strain of the virus and the vaccine basically triggers the immune system just a s getting the virus would? Now, how did that become 'unnatural'? Besides, wtf is so good about 'natural', whatever that means?

I hate the way this forum is full of ad hominem attacks and vile statements and I never resort to it and said I never would, but hey, all rules must be broken: so to all you anti vaxers out there: you are stupid, stupid, stupid and you should all be prosecuted for wilfully endangering the lives of others. I am amazed that people so stupid can actually function in the world, how do you manage to pay your bills, drive a car, let alone feed and dress a child and get it to school and how, oh how, do you manage to find all these bullshit websites with silly anti vaxer propaganda? Or wait, do you go straight to Jenny McCarthy for all your 'facts'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The reasoning is: natural immunity is better than immunity from vaccinations because natural immunity is natural.

(I do not believe this.)

Well, that reasoning works only if the disease doesn't kill you, which measles often likes to do to its host. And who gives a hoot if you are immune to polio if you are confined to a wheelchair? Congratulations! You now have natural immunity! Too bad about the immobility.


There are valid reasons to delay vaccination. Stupidity is not one of them.