Is FCPS "cheating" my kids out of the minimum instruction required by the state?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Fairfax County residents should be more concerned with the lack of instruction taking place throughout the school day in FCPS classrooms than twenty minutes lost in transit.

FCPS uses Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies where actual teacher instruction has been removed from the classroom. Students are given assignments and a final assessment due date. They are then left to work alone or to work in groups to teach themselves the required content and skills.

This works well if your children are very smart, popular, socially-adept, self-starters who easily share and copy the work of other students. If this is your family situation then these teaching models are perfect for your children.

However, if your children need and want genuine and authentic student/teacher/mentor relationships with their classroom teachers you will be sorely disappointed with the instruction they will receive from their FCPS teachers.

When your children return home from school and they begin their homework, please ask them what did their teachers teach or explain to them about the subject matter they are working on. You'll usually find the teacher gave the assignment without first teaching anything whatsoever about the material.

My children want to know and like their teachers. They want to learn from their teachers. They want to communicate with their teachers. They want to bounce their ideas off their teachers and during the learning process, they want their gradual lesson mastery validated by their teachers, but this is no longer available in the FCPS schools. Schools which have adopted Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies have eliminated regular classroom student/teacher communications.

It's pretty sad. Their teachers have become distant, detached, and disengaged. It's strange, it's as if their teachers are no longer present in their classrooms. Teachers claim they are present to answer questions, but what they don't realize is by failing actively teach their students they have gradually lost their abilities to communicate with them at all.

Because teachers are not driving the dialog, they find themselves unable to answer essentially basic questions when they are asked. Eventually, they begin to act as if students' questions are troublesome and annoying.

It's sad for the students and the teachers can't feel good about it either.

Are you the Oakton HS poster?
Keep in mind that Fairfax is a big county, and has many schools. What you describe isn't true at all of them.

[Anonymous]

It's sad they have jumped into Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning models with both feet. They had a system that worked and the students were thriving. Today, they are living on the positive reputation they earned before they changed their teaching model three years ago.

The popular and naturally high achieving students are still doing well, only because even will poor/non-existent instruction they are still able to succeed. However, the students who once depended on their teachers to teach, motive, and mentor them are lost, lonely, and slipping through the cracks.

Worry not - the popular students and the popular teachers currently enjoy a mutual-admiration society. They're going to be fine.

Unfortunately, for students who need and want discussions with their teachers they face nothing but rejection.

[Anonymous]

It's sad they have jumped into Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning models with both feet. They had a system that worked and the students were thriving. Today, they are living on the positive reputation they earned before they changed their teaching model three years ago.

The popular and naturally high achieving students are still doing well, only because even will poor/non-existent instruction they are still able to succeed. However, the students who once depended on their teachers to teach, motive, and mentor them are lost, lonely, and slipping through the cracks.

Worry not - the popular students and the popular teachers currently enjoy a mutual-admiration society. They're going to be fine.

Unfortunately, for students who need and want discussions with their teachers they face nothing but rejection.

Who? Oakton HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax County residents should be more concerned with the lack of instruction taking place throughout the school day in FCPS classrooms than twenty minutes lost in transit.

FCPS uses Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies where actual teacher instruction has been removed from the classroom. Students are given assignments and a final assessment due date. They are then left to work alone or to work in groups to teach themselves the required content and skills.

This works well if your children are very smart, popular, socially-adept, self-starters who easily share and copy the work of other students. If this is your family situation then these teaching models are perfect for your children.

However, if your children need and want genuine and authentic student/teacher/mentor relationships with their classroom teachers you will be sorely disappointed with the instruction they will receive from their FCPS teachers.

When your children return home from school and they begin their homework, please ask them what did their teachers teach or explain to them about the subject matter they are working on. You'll usually find the teacher gave the assignment without first teaching anything whatsoever about the material.

My children want to know and like their teachers. They want to learn from their teachers. They want to communicate with their teachers. They want to bounce their ideas off their teachers and during the learning process, they want their gradual lesson mastery validated by their teachers, but this is no longer available in the FCPS schools. Schools which have adopted Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies have eliminated regular classroom student/teacher communications.

It's pretty sad. Their teachers have become distant, detached, and disengaged. It's strange, it's as if their teachers are no longer present in their classrooms. Teachers claim they are present to answer questions, but what they don't realize is by failing actively teach their students they have gradually lost their abilities to communicate with them at all.

Because teachers are not driving the dialog, they find themselves unable to answer essentially basic questions when they are asked. Eventually, they begin to act as if students' questions are troublesome and annoying.

It's sad for the students and the teachers can't feel good about it either.

I am an FCPS teacher and I don't know what you are talking about. We do not use either a flipped classroom or a project-based model, with the exception of the 5th grade global awareness technology project, which accounts for a small part of the overall social studies curriculum in 5th grade. There has been no elimination whatsoever of regular student/teacher communications. This is the most bizarre thing I have read in a long time about FCPS schools - are you sure you're writing about FAIRFAX, and not another county starting with F?

Those who are using Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies may not themselves be aware of the degree to which their own student/teacher skills have atrophied, because of lack of use.

Seriously, you sound like a lunatic. I am well aware of what the flipped classroom model and project based learning are and I can guarantee you that in no way does the instruction in my school fit either model. Not even close. Frankly, I wish it did, as I believe both models actually do have the potential to deepen the teacher/ student relationship, in moderation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax County residents should be more concerned with the lack of instruction taking place throughout the school day in FCPS classrooms than twenty minutes lost in transit.

FCPS uses Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies where actual teacher instruction has been removed from the classroom. Students are given assignments and a final assessment due date. They are then left to work alone or to work in groups to teach themselves the required content and skills.

This works well if your children are very smart, popular, socially-adept, self-starters who easily share and copy the work of other students. If this is your family situation then these teaching models are perfect for your children.

However, if your children need and want genuine and authentic student/teacher/mentor relationships with their classroom teachers you will be sorely disappointed with the instruction they will receive from their FCPS teachers.

When your children return home from school and they begin their homework, please ask them what did their teachers teach or explain to them about the subject matter they are working on. You'll usually find the teacher gave the assignment without first teaching anything whatsoever about the material.

My children want to know and like their teachers. They want to learn from their teachers. They want to communicate with their teachers. They want to bounce their ideas off their teachers and during the learning process, they want their gradual lesson mastery validated by their teachers, but this is no longer available in the FCPS schools. Schools which have adopted Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies have eliminated regular classroom student/teacher communications.

It's pretty sad. Their teachers have become distant, detached, and disengaged. It's strange, it's as if their teachers are no longer present in their classrooms. Teachers claim they are present to answer questions, but what they don't realize is by failing actively teach their students they have gradually lost their abilities to communicate with them at all.

Because teachers are not driving the dialog, they find themselves unable to answer essentially basic questions when they are asked. Eventually, they begin to act as if students' questions are troublesome and annoying.

It's sad for the students and the teachers can't feel good about it either.

You again? Every once in a while, you pop up here on VA Schools forum with your screed about project-based learning and flipped classrooms as if they are happening in every.single.school and destroying the county.

As for the 990 hours, 20 minutes, no early-release Monday, I would offer that in Finland, where kids are outperforming every industrialized nation on the PISA, school does not begin until children are 7 and the school runs from 9-2pm, much less than FCPS. It's about the quality of teacher preparation programs (which is sorely lacking here, case in point you can get an online degree in teaching) AND the amount of time teachers get to plan and collaborate together. Finland has a rigorous teacher prep program and provides a great deal of time to plan. FCPS is making a move in this direction this year with adding in 300 minutes of planning for each teacher at the elementary level.

[Anonymous]

Kids are in school 180 days, though 6 are early release.

My kids will be in school 1038 hrs (NOT counting lunch and recess). Our bell schedule has not changed, total time is 6 hrs 40 minutes from the school start bell to dismissal bell.

If your school was only 6 hr 30 minutes before and is keeping the same bell time to be in seats, but adding 10 minutes, I could see that this would be less than 990 hrs. But I thought schools were all either 6 hrs 40 or 6hrs 50 mins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax County residents should be more concerned with the lack of instruction taking place throughout the school day in FCPS classrooms than twenty minutes lost in transit.

FCPS uses Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies where actual teacher instruction has been removed from the classroom. Students are given assignments and a final assessment due date. They are then left to work alone or to work in groups to teach themselves the required content and skills.

This works well if your children are very smart, popular, socially-adept, self-starters who easily share and copy the work of other students. If this is your family situation then these teaching models are perfect for your children.

However, if your children need and want genuine and authentic student/teacher/mentor relationships with their classroom teachers you will be sorely disappointed with the instruction they will receive from their FCPS teachers.

When your children return home from school and they begin their homework, please ask them what did their teachers teach or explain to them about the subject matter they are working on. You'll usually find the teacher gave the assignment without first teaching anything whatsoever about the material.

My children want to know and like their teachers. They want to learn from their teachers. They want to communicate with their teachers. They want to bounce their ideas off their teachers and during the learning process, they want their gradual lesson mastery validated by their teachers, but this is no longer available in the FCPS schools. Schools which have adopted Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies have eliminated regular classroom student/teacher communications.

It's pretty sad. Their teachers have become distant, detached, and disengaged. It's strange, it's as if their teachers are no longer present in their classrooms. Teachers claim they are present to answer questions, but what they don't realize is by failing actively teach their students they have gradually lost their abilities to communicate with them at all.

Because teachers are not driving the dialog, they find themselves unable to answer essentially basic questions when they are asked. Eventually, they begin to act as if students' questions are troublesome and annoying.

It's sad for the students and the teachers can't feel good about it either.

I am an FCPS teacher and I don't know what you are talking about. We do not use either a flipped classroom or a project-based model, with the exception of the 5th grade global awareness technology project, which accounts for a small part of the overall social studies curriculum in 5th grade. There has been no elimination whatsoever of regular student/teacher communications. This is the most bizarre thing I have read in a long time about FCPS schools - are you sure you're writing about FAIRFAX, and not another county starting with F?

Those who are using Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies may not themselves be aware of the degree to which their own student/teacher skills have atrophied, because of lack of use.

Seriously, you sound like a lunatic. I am well aware of what the flipped classroom model and project based learning are and I can guarantee you that in no way does the instruction in my school fit either model. Not even close. Frankly, I wish it did, as I believe both models actually do have the potential to deepen the teacher/ student relationship, in moderation.

Faced with professional criticism, you resort to personal attacks. If you feel the above mentioned methodologies are effective by all means state your case. You need not attack me personally. The problem with these methodologies is they take the teacher out of the learning experience. Then the learned experience is that the students and teachers no longer communicate. Theoretically using these models teachers are supposed to be circulating around the classroom, but the unintended consequence is that teachers simply disengage because they are no longer driving the bus.

This is great for kids who want to chit-chat with their friends all class period, but really bad for kids who want to learn from their teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If those 20 minutes are the make or break point for your kids they need to be in a special class.

So I should just be ok with the school reducing the year by a week and a half less than the minimum requirements b/c it doesn't matter?

It really, really does not matter.

+1 of all the things to worry about...

[Anonymous]

Our FCPS elementary has the exact same bell schedule as last year with the exception of full day Monday. 8:40-3:20.

Why are some schools changing times and other's are not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our FCPS elementary has the exact same bell schedule as last year with the exception of full day Monday. 8:40-3:20.

Why are some schools changing times and other's are not?

No school is changing the time of its tardy bell except for Bailey's. Many people are quite confused about what is really happening which is that schools are advertising their start of the "instructional day" 10 min earlier than last year. But the tardy bell, the one that teachers go by to start the day, has not changed in any elementary school (again, except Bailey's).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax County residents should be more concerned with the lack of instruction taking place throughout the school day in FCPS classrooms than twenty minutes lost in transit.

FCPS uses Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies where actual teacher instruction has been removed from the classroom. Students are given assignments and a final assessment due date. They are then left to work alone or to work in groups to teach themselves the required content and skills.

This works well if your children are very smart, popular, socially-adept, self-starters who easily share and copy the work of other students. If this is your family situation then these teaching models are perfect for your children.

However, if your children need and want genuine and authentic student/teacher/mentor relationships with their classroom teachers you will be sorely disappointed with the instruction they will receive from their FCPS teachers.

When your children return home from school and they begin their homework, please ask them what did their teachers teach or explain to them about the subject matter they are working on. You'll usually find the teacher gave the assignment without first teaching anything whatsoever about the material.

My children want to know and like their teachers. They want to learn from their teachers. They want to communicate with their teachers. They want to bounce their ideas off their teachers and during the learning process, they want their gradual lesson mastery validated by their teachers, but this is no longer available in the FCPS schools. Schools which have adopted Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies have eliminated regular classroom student/teacher communications.

It's pretty sad. Their teachers have become distant, detached, and disengaged. It's strange, it's as if their teachers are no longer present in their classrooms. Teachers claim they are present to answer questions, but what they don't realize is by failing actively teach their students they have gradually lost their abilities to communicate with them at all.

Because teachers are not driving the dialog, they find themselves unable to answer essentially basic questions when they are asked. Eventually, they begin to act as if students' questions are troublesome and annoying.

It's sad for the students and the teachers can't feel good about it either.

I am an FCPS teacher and I don't know what you are talking about. We do not use either a flipped classroom or a project-based model, with the exception of the 5th grade global awareness technology project, which accounts for a small part of the overall social studies curriculum in 5th grade. There has been no elimination whatsoever of regular student/teacher communications. This is the most bizarre thing I have read in a long time about FCPS schools - are you sure you're writing about FAIRFAX, and not another county starting with F?

Those who are using Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies may not themselves be aware of the degree to which their own student/teacher skills have atrophied, because of lack of use.

Seriously, you sound like a lunatic. I am well aware of what the flipped classroom model and project based learning are and I can guarantee you that in no way does the instruction in my school fit either model. Not even close. Frankly, I wish it did, as I believe both models actually do have the potential to deepen the teacher/ student relationship, in moderation.

Faced with professional criticism, you resort to personal attacks. If you feel the above mentioned methodologies are effective by all means state your case. You need not attack me personally. The problem with these methodologies is they take the teacher out of the learning experience. Then the learned experience is that the students and teachers no longer communicate. Theoretically using these models teachers are supposed to be circulating around the classroom, but the unintended consequence is that teachers simply disengage because they are no longer driving the bus.

This is great for kids who want to chit-chat with their friends all class period, but really bad for kids who want to learn from their teachers.

You did not criticize me professionally. You know nothing about me professionally, and you clearly know nothing about FCPS in general. FCPS does not operate on a flipped classroom model as a district. Not even remotely. There may be some individual teachers who have adopted this approach, but it is neither a school system directive nor particularly prevalent. You seem to have a particular bone to pick based on your particular experience, but you are spouting from a position of complete misinformation. And because you continue posting about this topic on so many posts that are only tangentially related, despite being informed numerous times that this is not the FCPS approach, you do sound like a lunatic. With all due respect for lunatics.

[Anonymous]

Of course they are counting time before the bell as instructional time when it clearly isn't. No one says otherwise.

It may or not be a big deal but it's dishonest. But to bureaucrats, ethics is situational. It's a small lie, it isn't a big deal, there are other days off, you know the lines....

[Anonymous]

Hopefully, Dr. Garza will issue a directive to every school in the FCPS system prohibiting Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning because they are both failed experimental teaching methodologies.

Schools using Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies have a duty and responsibly to honestly and in detail explain to their stakeholders the weaknesses of these programs.

Most parents simply trust their children are receiving a quality education taught by quality teachers using a variety of traditional teaching techniques. Most would be shocked to know teachers are no longer teaching. They would be shocked to know their children are either working alone or with groups to learn content materials and skill sets without teacher instruction or supervision.

It's shocking! Students are given assignments and due dates, but no teacher instruction. FCPS students and their parents have a right to know there will be little or no teacher instruction in their classrooms throughout the entire school year.

[Anonymous]

VA is replacing some SOL tests with project based assessments.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/education/new-legislation-cuts-number-of-sols-tests/article_1252bf60-be55-11e3-adb4-0017a43b2370.html?mode=jqm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax County residents should be more concerned with the lack of instruction taking place throughout the school day in FCPS classrooms than twenty minutes lost in transit.

FCPS uses Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies where actual teacher instruction has been removed from the classroom. Students are given assignments and a final assessment due date. They are then left to work alone or to work in groups to teach themselves the required content and skills.

This works well if your children are very smart, popular, socially-adept, self-starters who easily share and copy the work of other students. If this is your family situation then these teaching models are perfect for your children.

However, if your children need and want genuine and authentic student/teacher/mentor relationships with their classroom teachers you will be sorely disappointed with the instruction they will receive from their FCPS teachers.

When your children return home from school and they begin their homework, please ask them what did their teachers teach or explain to them about the subject matter they are working on. You'll usually find the teacher gave the assignment without first teaching anything whatsoever about the material.

My children want to know and like their teachers. They want to learn from their teachers. They want to communicate with their teachers. They want to bounce their ideas off their teachers and during the learning process, they want their gradual lesson mastery validated by their teachers, but this is no longer available in the FCPS schools. Schools which have adopted Flipped Classroom and Project Based Learning teaching methodologies have eliminated regular classroom student/teacher communications.

It's pretty sad. Their teachers have become distant, detached, and disengaged. It's strange, it's as if their teachers are no longer present in their classrooms. Teachers claim they are present to answer questions, but what they don't realize is by failing actively teach their students they have gradually lost their abilities to communicate with them at all.

Because teachers are not driving the dialog, they find themselves unable to answer essentially basic questions when they are asked. Eventually, they begin to act as if students' questions are troublesome and annoying.

It's sad for the students and the teachers can't feel good about it either.

You again? Every once in a while, you pop up here on VA Schools forum with your screed about project-based learning and flipped classrooms as if they are happening in every.single.school and destroying the county.

As for the 990 hours, 20 minutes, no early-release Monday, I would offer that in Finland, where kids are outperforming every industrialized nation on the PISA, school does not begin until children are 7 and the school runs from 9-2pm, much less than FCPS. It's about the quality of teacher preparation programs (which is sorely lacking here, case in point you can get an online degree in teaching) AND the amount of time teachers get to plan and collaborate together. Finland has a rigorous teacher prep program and provides a great deal of time to plan. FCPS is making a move in this direction this year with adding in 300 minutes of planning for each teacher at the elementary level.

Ahhh! I am not the PP, but this darn Finland argument drives me crazy.

Yes, Finland does very well in country rankings. But it is worth noting that the MAJORITY of high scoring countries on the PISA and the TIMSS are Asian countries. Asian countries that begin rigorous and academic schooling at age 3. Asian countries that use what is often referred to as "drill and kill" to teach their students. Asian countries that have significantly longer school days and school years than we do in the US.

Finland is an outlier. As a country they have only participated in international testing for a few years, AND they have continuously slipped in their rankings. They are simply not a model for the educational world, no matter how bad you want their 5 hour school day.