Prestige of Lawyer vs Physician

[Anonymous]

Leave it to the insecure asshole lawyers in this town to even try to argue lawyers have more prestige. In my mind, lawyers have as much prestige as a marketing professional. 3 years of school almost anyone can do is NOTHING compared to what it takes to be a physician. Get over yourself, JDs, and get on with your lives. You're pretty much only above MFAs at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Surgeon General is pretty prestigious.

Actually,,it's not. The surgeon General is rarely a top of his.her specialty or well known researcher. There are positions at NIH and CDC that are are much more prestigious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Leave it to the insecure asshole lawyers in this town to even try to argue lawyers have more prestige. In my mind, lawyers have as much prestige as a marketing professional. 3 years of school almost anyone can do is NOTHING compared to what it takes to be a physician. Get over yourself, JDs, and get on with your lives. You're pretty much only above MFAs at this point.

I think most of the lawyers answering this thread as saying being a doctor is more prestigious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. My argument is as follows-

JD is more intellectual than MD Nope, have you taken the MCAT and the LSAT?
JD has much higher salary potential I suppose, if you're referring to the very few who bill at $1000+/hour.
JD is much more versatile - the prestige speaks for itself in many industries Neither are very versatile, but JDs are very limiting, which I don't think is true of an MD.
JD ceiling is higher - Supreme Court justices have no medical counterpart near as prestigious Judges are more prestigious than lawyers, that's true.
JDs in big law get car service, catered lunches, and suits - MDs have cabs/trains, cafeteria, and scrubs
JDs are sole in their ability to practice law - MDs have DO and foreign competition Lawyers are now competing with foreign competition.
JDs charge by hour - MDs have to deal with government dictated reimbursements Why do you think lawyers invented the billable hour? It was to compete with doctor's salaries.


How are docs more prestigious?

[Anonymous]

Doctors for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. My argument is as follows-

JD is more intellectual than MD Nope, have you taken the MCAT and the LSAT?
JD has much higher salary potential I suppose, if you're referring to the very few who bill at $1000+/hour.
JD is much more versatile - the prestige speaks for itself in many industries Neither are very versatile, but JDs are very limiting, which I don't think is true of an MD.
JD ceiling is higher - Supreme Court justices have no medical counterpart near as prestigious Judges are more prestigious than lawyers, that's true.
JDs in big law get car service, catered lunches, and suits - MDs have cabs/trains, cafeteria, and scrubs
JDs are sole in their ability to practice law - MDs have DO and foreign competition Lawyers are now competing with foreign competition.
JDs charge by hour - MDs have to deal with government dictated reimbursements Why do you think lawyers invented the billable hour? It was to compete with doctor's salaries.


How are docs more prestigious?

Re competing with foreign competition, is that for doc review?

[Anonymous]

Doctor's, no question. They are in the business of improving people's lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. My argument is as follows-

JD is more intellectual than MD Nope, have you taken the MCAT and the LSAT?
JD has much higher salary potential I suppose, if you're referring to the very few who bill at $1000+/hour.
JD is much more versatile - the prestige speaks for itself in many industries Neither are very versatile, but JDs are very limiting, which I don't think is true of an MD.
JD ceiling is higher - Supreme Court justices have no medical counterpart near as prestigious Judges are more prestigious than lawyers, that's true.
JDs in big law get car service, catered lunches, and suits - MDs have cabs/trains, cafeteria, and scrubs
JDs are sole in their ability to practice law - MDs have DO and foreign competition Lawyers are now competing with foreign competition.
JDs charge by hour - MDs have to deal with government dictated reimbursements Why do you think lawyers invented the billable hour? It was to compete with doctor's salaries.


How are docs more prestigious?

Re competing with foreign competition, is that for doc review?

It's doc review, and many other things:

The range of secretarial and administrative services provided by offshore back office operations is growing by an estimated 20% annually as developed countries seek to lower costs by outsourcing routine office functions. Legal secretarial tasks outsourced overseas include data entry, proofreading, legal transcription, simple filings, cite-checking and remote secretarial services.

Litigation Support Functions

The advent of e-discovery and changes in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure have encouraged the offshoring of high-volume, labor-intensive litigation support functions . In fact, litigation support functions are the bread and butter of many foreign legal service vendors.

In lieu of paying armies of high-priced U.S. attorneys and paralegals to code and review millions of discovery documents, highly trained workforces overseas perform the work at a fraction of the cost. Typical litigation support tasks performed by overseas legal service providers include imaging, scanning, coding, abstracting, indexing, data entry and document review.

Lawyer Functions

The work of lawyers is not immune to the offshoring phenomenon. Overseas legal service vendors are performing sophisticated legal tasks formerly reserved for high-priced U.S. attorneys. Technological tools such as the internet, electronic legal research, e-mail, text messaging and remote document retrieval make it easy for lawyers to communicate across the globe. Complex legal research, due diligence, contract management and negotiation, appellate briefs and research, and intellectual property services are among the legal tasks being exported to low-wage markets, where attorney rates are as little as 1/30th the cost of U.S. lawyers.

Paralegal Functions

Legal processing outsourcing is also making an impact on the paralegal industry. In India and other low-cost markets, paralegals earn between $6 and $8 an hour, compared with the $20+ an hour earned by their U.S. counterparts. A study at the University of California at Berkeley cites the paralegal field as one of the top occupations most at risk of being outsourced abroad.

In the beginning, the types of paralegal tasks outsourced were primarily low-end, high-volume work including deposition summaries; document review; electronic discovery; document organization, summarizing, indexing, categorizing and abstracting; document imaging, scanning and coding; and routine research such as multi-jurisdictional surveys.

As offshoring gains momentum, more sophisticated and complex paralegal tasks are being sent overseas such as complex legal research; contract drafting, monitoring and review; business research services such as reviews of SEC filings and corporate financial research; and drafting of legal documents such as legal memorandums, pleadings, briefs, discovery requests and jury instructions.

http://legalcareers.about.com/od/jobmarket/a/Offshoring.htm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. My argument is as follows-

JD is more intellectual than MD Nope, have you taken the MCAT and the LSAT?
JD has much higher salary potential I suppose, if you're referring to the very few who bill at $1000+/hour.
JD is much more versatile - the prestige speaks for itself in many industries Neither are very versatile, but JDs are very limiting, which I don't think is true of an MD.
JD ceiling is higher - Supreme Court justices have no medical counterpart near as prestigious Judges are more prestigious than lawyers, that's true.
JDs in big law get car service, catered lunches, and suits - MDs have cabs/trains, cafeteria, and scrubs
JDs are sole in their ability to practice law - MDs have DO and foreign competition Lawyers are now competing with foreign competition.
JDs charge by hour - MDs have to deal with government dictated reimbursements Why do you think lawyers invented the billable hour? It was to compete with doctor's salaries.


How are docs more prestigious?

Re competing with foreign competition, is that for doc review?

It's doc review, and many other things:

The range of secretarial and administrative services provided by offshore back office operations is growing by an estimated 20% annually as developed countries seek to lower costs by outsourcing routine office functions. Legal secretarial tasks outsourced overseas include data entry, proofreading, legal transcription, simple filings, cite-checking and remote secretarial services.

Litigation Support Functions

The advent of e-discovery and changes in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure have encouraged the offshoring of high-volume, labor-intensive litigation support functions . In fact, litigation support functions are the bread and butter of many foreign legal service vendors.

In lieu of paying armies of high-priced U.S. attorneys and paralegals to code and review millions of discovery documents, highly trained workforces overseas perform the work at a fraction of the cost. Typical litigation support tasks performed by overseas legal service providers include imaging, scanning, coding, abstracting, indexing, data entry and document review.

Lawyer Functions

The work of lawyers is not immune to the offshoring phenomenon. Overseas legal service vendors are performing sophisticated legal tasks formerly reserved for high-priced U.S. attorneys. Technological tools such as the internet, electronic legal research, e-mail, text messaging and remote document retrieval make it easy for lawyers to communicate across the globe. Complex legal research, due diligence, contract management and negotiation, appellate briefs and research, and intellectual property services are among the legal tasks being exported to low-wage markets, where attorney rates are as little as 1/30th the cost of U.S. lawyers.

Paralegal Functions

Legal processing outsourcing is also making an impact on the paralegal industry. In India and other low-cost markets, paralegals earn between $6 and $8 an hour, compared with the $20+ an hour earned by their U.S. counterparts. A study at the University of California at Berkeley cites the paralegal field as one of the top occupations most at risk of being outsourced abroad.

In the beginning, the types of paralegal tasks outsourced were primarily low-end, high-volume work including deposition summaries; document review; electronic discovery; document organization, summarizing, indexing, categorizing and abstracting; document imaging, scanning and coding; and routine research such as multi-jurisdictional surveys.

As offshoring gains momentum, more sophisticated and complex paralegal tasks are being sent overseas such as complex legal research; contract drafting, monitoring and review; business research services such as reviews of SEC filings and corporate financial research; and drafting of legal documents such as legal memorandums, pleadings, briefs, discovery requests and jury instructions.

http://legalcareers.about.com/od/jobmarket/a/Offshoring.htm

How is this legal or ethical? There is really no meaningful jurisdiction over workers in foreign countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's doc review, and many other things:

The range of secretarial and administrative services provided by offshore back office operations is growing by an estimated 20% annually as developed countries seek to lower costs by outsourcing routine office functions. Legal secretarial tasks outsourced overseas include data entry, proofreading, legal transcription, simple filings, cite-checking and remote secretarial services.

Litigation Support Functions

The advent of e-discovery and changes in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure have encouraged the offshoring of high-volume, labor-intensive litigation support functions . In fact, litigation support functions are the bread and butter of many foreign legal service vendors.

In lieu of paying armies of high-priced U.S. attorneys and paralegals to code and review millions of discovery documents, highly trained workforces overseas perform the work at a fraction of the cost. Typical litigation support tasks performed by overseas legal service providers include imaging, scanning, coding, abstracting, indexing, data entry and document review.

Lawyer Functions

The work of lawyers is not immune to the offshoring phenomenon. Overseas legal service vendors are performing sophisticated legal tasks formerly reserved for high-priced U.S. attorneys. Technological tools such as the internet, electronic legal research, e-mail, text messaging and remote document retrieval make it easy for lawyers to communicate across the globe. Complex legal research, due diligence, contract management and negotiation, appellate briefs and research, and intellectual property services are among the legal tasks being exported to low-wage markets, where attorney rates are as little as 1/30th the cost of U.S. lawyers.

Paralegal Functions

Legal processing outsourcing is also making an impact on the paralegal industry. In India and other low-cost markets, paralegals earn between $6 and $8 an hour, compared with the $20+ an hour earned by their U.S. counterparts. A study at the University of California at Berkeley cites the paralegal field as one of the top occupations most at risk of being outsourced abroad.

In the beginning, the types of paralegal tasks outsourced were primarily low-end, high-volume work including deposition summaries; document review; electronic discovery; document organization, summarizing, indexing, categorizing and abstracting; document imaging, scanning and coding; and routine research such as multi-jurisdictional surveys.

As offshoring gains momentum, more sophisticated and complex paralegal tasks are being sent overseas such as complex legal research; contract drafting, monitoring and review; business research services such as reviews of SEC filings and corporate financial research; and drafting of legal documents such as legal memorandums, pleadings, briefs, discovery requests and jury instructions.

http://legalcareers.about.com/od/jobmarket/a/Offshoring.htm

How is this legal or ethical? There is really no meaningful jurisdiction over workers in foreign countries.

Much of this looks like malpractice to me, too. But apparently, some lawyers are farming out this work out of the country.

[Anonymous]

A partner at cravath is more prestigious than a pediatric cardiologist

A law professor at almost any law school is more prestigious than a Harvard trained anesthesiologist

A judge is more prestigious, at any level, than a community general surgeon


I think of law schools as having more lay prestige than medical schools.

"I went to Yale law" has more cachet than "I'm a physician who trained at Yale"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A partner at cravath is more prestigious than a pediatric cardiologist

A law professor at almost any law school is more prestigious than a Harvard trained anesthesiologist

A judge is more prestigious, at any level, than a community general surgeon


I think of law schools as having more lay prestige than medical schools.

"I went to Yale law" has more cachet than "I'm a physician who trained at Yale"

Ok. The rest of us don't agree with you, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A partner at cravath is more prestigious than a pediatric cardiologist

A law professor at almost any law school is more prestigious than a Harvard trained anesthesiologist

A judge is more prestigious, at any level, than a community general surgeon


I think of law schools as having more lay prestige than medical schools.

"I went to Yale law" has more cachet than "I'm a physician who trained at Yale"

Ok. The rest of us don't agree with you, though.

You disagree with each example ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A partner at cravath is more prestigious than a pediatric cardiologist

A law professor at almost any law school is more prestigious than a Harvard trained anesthesiologist

A judge is more prestigious, at any level, than a community general surgeon


I think of law schools as having more lay prestige than medical schools.

"I went to Yale law" has more cachet than "I'm a physician who trained at Yale"

Your comparisons are very strange. Most are false equivalences. And your last two are just wrong. Rarely does DCUM have a consensus on anything. Here, we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A partner at cravath is more prestigious than a pediatric cardiologist

A law professor at almost any law school is more prestigious than a Harvard trained anesthesiologist

A judge is more prestigious, at any level, than a community general surgeon


I think of law schools as having more lay prestige than medical schools.

"I went to Yale law" has more cachet than "I'm a physician who trained at Yale"

What the hell is cravath?