Non-violent solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflcit

[Anonymous]

Muslima said point blank that Hamas does not want the destruction do all Jews. Now a Hamas cleric has stated this is exactly their goal, and Muslima brings up an Istaeli re: Palestinians. The fact that Israel has never had a goal to kill all ARABS seems to have escaped her. Israel is under constant terror threat from Palestiniams due to Hamas. Are there innocents? Sure. But blindly supporting Hamas, who do so much to get Palestinians killed, will only get me to support Israel's goals of destroying those terror tunnels more. Israel did nut dig them under mosques and schools etc.

Putting the blame on Israel saying they need more targeted weaponr because Hamas engages in these practices is ridiculous. You don't allow this practice to continue, and if that means their innocents die to protect yours, well, that's on Hamas.

[Anonymous]

Realistically, in the end a peace deal will turn over Gaza and the West Bank to Palestine. Jerusalem and existing settlements will be a sticking point. Probably will end up being an international city, with Israel controlling the Western Wall.

Settlements will probably either end up paying rent/taxes to Palestine, with free passage in exchange for free passage between the West Bank and Gaza.

Security will be a sticking point.

But, that is the form it will take. How many more people have to die (on both sides) to get there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A non violent solution is possible...but first both sides need to acknowledge the other sides perspective/fears/desires.

For Israel, they believe that the palestinians want to slaughter them, that the arabs in general want to drive them to the sea. And that the world is against Israel. They believe that the survival of Israel is central to the survival of the Jewish people. This is realized in referring to things like "Tunnels of Terror."

My understanding is the Palestinians believe that Israel wants to occupy them and treat them as second class citizens. That they are subhuman. This is realized in all of the Apartheid talk.

In order to have a peaceful solution, the Israelis need to see how the Palestinians view the conflict, and the Palestinians need to see the fear that is driving the Israeli actions.

Then, they can sit down, and start to talk with reasonable perspectives. How can Israel demonstrate respect for the Palestinians? How can the Palestinians show the Israelis that they don't want to kill them?

Until that happens, nothing will change.

They are de facto occupied by the water, air, and land blockade.

And Palestinians are killed at 10x the rate of Israelis. Israelis do far, far more of the killing. So it's hard for me to see why Israelis are so terrified. Seems it should be the other way around to me.

Look at the history and the rhetoric. Israel is clearly the strong entity. But, the country is reacting from fear. It is a matter of understanding the motivations of the other side. Israel is a small country. The jewish people have been the victim of multiple attempted genocides, starting with the Egyptians in the old testament, continuing through the persians, the greeks, the romans, the spanish, and of course the germans.

I agree that Israel is reacting to the actions of the Palestinians, which is truly bizarre to me -- why do they continue to engage on a violent level with an opponent who is so much stronger? Perverse.

So what can they do that is not violent to make the changes they want to make?

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:Muslima said point blank that Hamas does not want the destruction do all Jews. Now a Hamas cleric has stated this is exactly their goal, and Muslima brings up an Istaeli re: Palestinians. The fact that Israel has never had a goal to kill all ARABS seems to have escaped her. Israel is under constant terror threat from Palestiniams due to Hamas. Are there innocents? Sure. But blindly supporting Hamas, who do so much to get Palestinians killed, will only get me to support Israel's goals of destroying those terror tunnels more. Israel did nut dig them under mosques and schools etc.

Putting the blame on Israel saying they need more targeted weaponr because Hamas engages in these practices is ridiculous. You don't allow this practice to continue, and if that means their innocents die to protect yours, well, that's on Hamas.

Do you really think Hamas' mission is to kill all Jews? Hamas' leader clearly said that it wasn't true. I saw pictures and tweets from IDF soldiers this morning that said: "I killed 13 children, I'm going to kill some more. We will not stop until all Muslims are dead" . Did I suddenly have this irrational fear that Jews were coming after me? Sometimes, it is good to use common sense and be critical as opposed to emotional. If Hamas' plan was to exterminate the Jews, why stop at Israel? Why don't we have Hamas members all over the world killing every Jew they see? Or are only the Israeli Jews the doomed one? Jeezzzzz

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A non violent solution is possible...but first both sides need to acknowledge the other sides perspective/fears/desires.

For Israel, they believe that the palestinians want to slaughter them, that the arabs in general want to drive them to the sea. And that the world is against Israel. They believe that the survival of Israel is central to the survival of the Jewish people. This is realized in referring to things like "Tunnels of Terror."

My understanding is the Palestinians believe that Israel wants to occupy them and treat them as second class citizens. That they are subhuman. This is realized in all of the Apartheid talk.

In order to have a peaceful solution, the Israelis need to see how the Palestinians view the conflict, and the Palestinians need to see the fear that is driving the Israeli actions.

Then, they can sit down, and start to talk with reasonable perspectives. How can Israel demonstrate respect for the Palestinians? How can the Palestinians show the Israelis that they don't want to kill them?

Until that happens, nothing will change.

They are de facto occupied by the water, air, and land blockade.

And Palestinians are killed at 10x the rate of Israelis. Israelis do far, far more of the killing. So it's hard for me to see why Israelis are so terrified. Seems it should be the other way around to me.

Look at the history and the rhetoric. Israel is clearly the strong entity. But, the country is reacting from fear. It is a matter of understanding the motivations of the other side. Israel is a small country. The jewish people have been the victim of multiple attempted genocides, starting with the Egyptians in the old testament, continuing through the persians, the greeks, the romans, the spanish, and of course the germans.

I agree that Israel is reacting to the actions of the Palestinians, which is truly bizarre to me -- why do they continue to engage on a violent level with an opponent who is so much stronger? Perverse.

So what can they do that is not violent to make the changes they want to make?

They did try when they made a unity government pact with Fatah. At which point Netanyahu had a conniption fit, walked out of the peace talks and the rest is on CNN right now.

[Anonymous]

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima said point blank that Hamas does not want the destruction do all Jews. Now a Hamas cleric has stated this is exactly their goal, and Muslima brings up an Istaeli re: Palestinians. The fact that Israel has never had a goal to kill all ARABS seems to have escaped her. Israel is under constant terror threat from Palestiniams due to Hamas. Are there innocents? Sure. But blindly supporting Hamas, who do so much to get Palestinians killed, will only get me to support Israel's goals of destroying those terror tunnels more. Israel did nut dig them under mosques and schools etc.

Putting the blame on Israel saying they need more targeted weaponr because Hamas engages in these practices is ridiculous. You don't allow this practice to continue, and if that means their innocents die to protect yours, well, that's on Hamas.

Do you really think Hamas' mission is to kill all Jews? Hamas' leader clearly said that it wasn't true. I saw pictures and tweets from IDF soldiers this morning that said: "I killed 13 children, I'm going to kill some more. We will not stop until all Muslims are dead" . Did I suddenly have this irrational fear that Jews were coming after me? Sometimes, it is good to use common sense and be critical as opposed to emotional. If Hamas' plan was to exterminate the Jews, why stop at Israel? Why don't we have Hamas members all over the world killing every Jew they see? Or are only the Israeli Jews the doomed one? Jeezzzzz

Actually, there is considerable agreement that the tweet was a fake and the account was hacked. Why hasn't any major news service carried it? Because it can't corroborated as legitimate. Only one I can find is the International Business Times, which expressed that this could very well be fake. I think there's a direct difference between Hamas leaders calling for killing all jews and Israelis and a highly likely fake tweet.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima said point blank that Hamas does not want the destruction do all Jews. Now a Hamas cleric has stated this is exactly their goal, and Muslima brings up an Istaeli re: Palestinians. The fact that Israel has never had a goal to kill all ARABS seems to have escaped her. Israel is under constant terror threat from Palestiniams due to Hamas. Are there innocents? Sure. But blindly supporting Hamas, who do so much to get Palestinians killed, will only get me to support Israel's goals of destroying those terror tunnels more. Israel did nut dig them under mosques and schools etc.

Putting the blame on Israel saying they need more targeted weaponr because Hamas engages in these practices is ridiculous. You don't allow this practice to continue, and if that means their innocents die to protect yours, well, that's on Hamas.

Do you really think Hamas' mission is to kill all Jews? Hamas' leader clearly said that it wasn't true. I saw pictures and tweets from IDF soldiers this morning that said: "I killed 13 children, I'm going to kill some more. We will not stop until all Muslims are dead" . Did I suddenly have this irrational fear that Jews were coming after me? Sometimes, it is good to use common sense and be critical as opposed to emotional. If Hamas' plan was to exterminate the Jews, why stop at Israel? Why don't we have Hamas members all over the world killing every Jew they see? Or are only the Israeli Jews the doomed one? Jeezzzzz

Actually, there is considerable agreement that the tweet was a fake and the account was hacked. Why hasn't any major news service carried it? Because it can't corroborated as legitimate. Only one I can find is the International Business Times, which expressed that this could very well be fake. I think there's a direct difference between Hamas leaders calling for killing all jews and Israelis and a highly likely fake tweet.

The guy in the MEMRI video was not a Hamas leader. He is so unimportant that MEMRI doesn't even know his name. Also, MEMRI has a history of very poor translations. I'd suggest that a fluent Arabic speaker listen to the video themselves. That said, some Rabbis have made statements that appear to bless the widespread killing of Palestinians. Rabbi David-Seth Kirshner said at a New York rally that anyone who voted for Hamas is a combatant that deserved to be killed:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Video-If-you-voted-for-Ha-by-Philip-Weiss-AIPAC_Hamas_Israel_Israel-Runs-Washington-140730-674.html

and Rabbi Dov Lior, "a leading West Bank rabbi who endorsed a book justifying the killing of non-Jews, issued a religious ruling saying that Jewish law permits the destruction of Gaza"

http://www.jta.org/2014/07/24/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/west-bank-rabbi-dov-lior-jewish-law-permits-destruction-of-gaza

So, there are crazies on both sides. I'd suggest that if you are primarily interested in quoting the other side's crazies, you probably aren't interested in peace. On the other hand, if you eagerly seek out those with whom you might find middle ground, you probably are interested in peace.

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima said point blank that Hamas does not want the destruction do all Jews. Now a Hamas cleric has stated this is exactly their goal, and Muslima brings up an Istaeli re: Palestinians. The fact that Israel has never had a goal to kill all ARABS seems to have escaped her. Israel is under constant terror threat from Palestiniams due to Hamas. Are there innocents? Sure. But blindly supporting Hamas, who do so much to get Palestinians killed, will only get me to support Israel's goals of destroying those terror tunnels more. Israel did nut dig them under mosques and schools etc.

Putting the blame on Israel saying they need more targeted weaponr because Hamas engages in these practices is ridiculous. You don't allow this practice to continue, and if that means their innocents die to protect yours, well, that's on Hamas.

Do you really think Hamas' mission is to kill all Jews? Hamas' leader clearly said that it wasn't true. I saw pictures and tweets from IDF soldiers this morning that said: "I killed 13 children, I'm going to kill some more. We will not stop until all Muslims are dead" . Did I suddenly have this irrational fear that Jews were coming after me? Sometimes, it is good to use common sense and be critical as opposed to emotional. If Hamas' plan was to exterminate the Jews, why stop at Israel? Why don't we have Hamas members all over the world killing every Jew they see? Or are only the Israeli Jews the doomed one? Jeezzzzz

Actually, there is considerable agreement that the tweet was a fake and the account was hacked. Why hasn't any major news service carried it? Because it can't corroborated as legitimate. Only one I can find is the International Business Times, which expressed that this could very well be fake. I think there's a direct difference between Hamas leaders calling for killing all jews and Israelis and a highly likely fake tweet.

Considerable agreement by who? It is all over the internet on numerous sites, none of them said it was fake :

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/07/31/i-killed-13-children-today-serving-israeli-soldier-gloats-on-twitter/

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/31/373518/israeli-sniper-admits-killing-13-kids/
AND This is not the first time that an IDF soldier goes bonkers online, The Israeli army has reprimanded some of them after a public embarassement, so it's not like it's the first time. My point being, you want to find extremists, you will find them and they are not all in Hamas as you'd want the world to think

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/reprimanded-israeli-soldier-still-posting-violent-racist-material-instagram

Reprimanded” Israeli soldier still posting violent, racist material on Instagram
Only months after he was supposedly “reprimanded” for his conduct on social media, Israeli army Golani Brigade soldier Osher Maman is again publicly disseminating racist and violent material including outright calls to murder Palestinians.

This comes as Israel has launched yet another effort to control its soldiers’ often embarrassing online image.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima said point blank that Hamas does not want the destruction do all Jews. Now a Hamas cleric has stated this is exactly their goal, and Muslima brings up an Istaeli re: Palestinians. The fact that Israel has never had a goal to kill all ARABS seems to have escaped her. Israel is under constant terror threat from Palestiniams due to Hamas. Are there innocents? Sure. But blindly supporting Hamas, who do so much to get Palestinians killed, will only get me to support Israel's goals of destroying those terror tunnels more. Israel did nut dig them under mosques and schools etc.

Putting the blame on Israel saying they need more targeted weaponr because Hamas engages in these practices is ridiculous. You don't allow this practice to continue, and if that means their innocents die to protect yours, well, that's on Hamas.

Do you really think Hamas' mission is to kill all Jews? Hamas' leader clearly said that it wasn't true. I saw pictures and tweets from IDF soldiers this morning that said: "I killed 13 children, I'm going to kill some more. We will not stop until all Muslims are dead" . Did I suddenly have this irrational fear that Jews were coming after me? Sometimes, it is good to use common sense and be critical as opposed to emotional. If Hamas' plan was to exterminate the Jews, why stop at Israel? Why don't we have Hamas members all over the world killing every Jew they see? Or are only the Israeli Jews the doomed one? Jeezzzzz

Actually, there is considerable agreement that the tweet was a fake and the account was hacked. Why hasn't any major news service carried it? Because it can't corroborated as legitimate. Only one I can find is the International Business Times, which expressed that this could very well be fake. I think there's a direct difference between Hamas leaders calling for killing all jews and Israelis and a highly likely fake tweet.

The guy in the MEMRI video was not a Hamas leader. He is so unimportant that MEMRI doesn't even know his name. Also, MEMRI has a history of very poor translations. I'd suggest that a fluent Arabic speaker listen to the video themselves. That said, some Rabbis have made statements that appear to bless the widespread killing of Palestinians. Rabbi David-Seth Kirshner said at a New York rally that anyone who voted for Hamas is a combatant that deserved to be killed:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Video-If-you-voted-for-Ha-by-Philip-Weiss-AIPAC_Hamas_Israel_Israel-Runs-Washington-140730-674.html

and Rabbi Dov Lior, "a leading West Bank rabbi who endorsed a book justifying the killing of non-Jews, issued a religious ruling saying that Jewish law permits the destruction of Gaza"

http://www.jta.org/2014/07/24/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/west-bank-rabbi-dov-lior-jewish-law-permits-destruction-of-gaza

So, there are crazies on both sides. I'd suggest that if you are primarily interested in quoting the other side's crazies, you probably aren't interested in peace. On the other hand, if you eagerly seek out those with whom you might find middle ground, you probably are interested in peace.

Rabbi Dov Lior, whom I am not directly familiar with, is the jewish equivalent of Osama Bin Ladin, or of the KKK.

[takoma]

Clearly both sides have to give, and Israel, having more power, probably has to give more. In particular, they have to stop settling land that is not legally theirs and preferably remove prior settlements. And they certainly have to stop killing Palestinians who had no part in attacks on Israel. The strangulation of Gaza by the blockade must be loosened.

Conversely, there must be a stop to Hamas's rockets and cross-border attacks, as well as rhetoric about destroying Israel.

The problem, of course, is that there are people on both sides who will not comply with any agreement. In order to work, both sides would have to accept that there will be infractions of whatever they agree to. But sooner or later, I hope they will realize that the harm caused by these infractions would be a fraction of the harm occurring now.