Your Thoughts on Montgomery County Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the best thing about VA schools is the fact that they have a program for a very sizable chunk of advanced kids to challenge them. MD's program for those at the very top end only fits about 3% of the kids in the county so is very limited.

7/21 23:34 here. Yes, I should have said this. As I think about it, part of the new curriculum won't be fixed. I think the people that run MCPS philosophically believe that no matter how differently prepared kids may be as the walk into a school building, they will be treated the same and have the same materials, approach, and classroom. If your kid can read chapter books in 1st grade and do addition/subtraction, that kid will be bored so the other kids can catch up. If your kid needs help, maybe you can get it if you go pay for expensive testing, maybe not. At the same time, MCPS will prioritize technology, central office overhead, and teacher pay over having smaller class sizes. So teachers will have these huge class sizes of all different abilities. No matter how good some of the teachers may be, they won't be able to spend time with everyone.

Finally, I know Fairfax county has cheaper teacher aids to help out in the classroom, but I doubt the union/MCPS would ever go for this. They would rather by tablets and dump them in the classroom without training, then spend dollars trying to give kids individual attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the best thing about VA schools is the fact that they have a program for a very sizable chunk of advanced kids to challenge them. MD's program for those at the very top end only fits about 3% of the kids in the county so is very limited.

The chunk is so sizeable that the challenge is not really that great.I prefer MCPS in this regard. 25% shouldn;t need a seperate class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the OP - It is all relative - parents and kids who have had a great school experience prior will probably find MCPS lacking. Many who start with MCPS might not know any different/better. It greatly depends on your childs current school size, culture, overall teacher quality and your child's comfort/friends at school. So many variables - within MCPS and between kids. But overall, even in the "good" schools, it is best to expect just an average experience these days - that way you will not be too disappointed .

So the reason I'm happy with our experiences in MCPS is because I'm too ignorant to know better. Thank you for enlightening me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is supposed to rank quite high within the nation as a school system. If that is indeed true then I shudder at what kinds of schools are in the US.

I would really rank it very low. I was educated in a 3rd world country and the education I received in my home country was superior by far.

I always chuckle when I read this. If the educational system in your 3rd world country is so great, why is it so impoverished? I'm guessing that they would score incredibly poorly on international exams as well. What are your objective measures for "far superior"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP - It is all relative - parents and kids who have had a great school experience prior will probably find MCPS lacking. Many who start with MCPS might not know any different/better. It greatly depends on your childs current school size, culture, overall teacher quality and your child's comfort/friends at school. So many variables - within MCPS and between kids. But overall, even in the "good" schools, it is best to expect just an average experience these days - that way you will not be too disappointed .

So the reason I'm happy with our experiences in MCPS is because I'm too ignorant to know better. Thank you for enlightening me.

Maybe not for you, but for some, yes. Some people are lucky and happy with their experience because they are in a better school and have gotten good teachers, or at least decent teachers. But I dont believe this reflects the majority. Many feel like it is not good - but probably the majority feel like it is "just ok" or "fine" - I have heard these comments over and over. We have done both public here and in another state (we were outside Chicago), as well as private. There are major differences between school systems (and private) that are hard to just imagine or even see from a website or brochure - parents or kids need to experience to fully appreciate - that is all I was saying.
And a friend of mine who has a child at my child's MCPS public school says they won't even tour a private school because she "just doesn't want to know."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is supposed to rank quite high within the nation as a school system. If that is indeed true then I shudder at what kinds of schools are in the US.

I would really rank it very low. I was educated in a 3rd world country and the education I received in my home country was superior by far.

Which country?

I'm not doubting your assessment of your own education. But was your education the education that is available to every child in the country, or were there special circumstances? I find it difficult to believe that the education available to every child in a third-world country is better than MCPS, and that's the appropriate standard of comparison. However, there might be third-world countries where this is the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some data from the MCPS schools at a glance website: in 10 years the district has gone from 22% free lunch to 34%.

Montgomery County has positioned themselves for only the rich who can afford private and don't need county services and the poor. They don't want the "middle" class/income families and are running them out.

Then they will need to try harder. My household is the median household income in Montgomery County, and we like it here just fine. We're not going anywhere.

I grew up here and I can't wait to bail. If we could get what we put into our house we'd move to Howard or another county. We can get a bigger house, less traffic, closer to my husband's job and the schools are better.

[Anonymous]

You would think this would be a good place to come for some advice but . . . you get the same angry anti-immigrant rants no matter what question you ask about MCPS, so you need to take that into consideration. We moved from Massachusetts which was recently rated the best schools but MCPS has more to offer than most of the good suburban schools there because it is county as opposed to town based, which poses its own problems of course. MCPS is huge, and it serves a diverse population. The prior Superintendent made it a priority to try to improve the quality of schools serving lower-income folks with some success, this is one of the things that drives some of the posters nuts because it is not their kids. But it is the right thing to do. The problem the County has is trying to serve the various constituencies -- but at the HS level, there are good schools throughout the District, and I assume this is true at the elementary school level too (MS everywhere are a mixed bag). The current Superintendent seems much less focussed than the prior -- he is young and ambitious but was recently publicly rejected for consideration for the NY School job and I think he is likely trying to figure out how to improve his public reputation, and he seems less focussed on improving the district. There is a new Curriculum and there has been some problems with the roll out, but that is not unique to MCPS. Long and short, these are some of the best public schools in the country, no matter how you measure them, they are not perfect and could be better but the problem is not that lower-income folks are sapping all of the resources. The problem, if there is one, is that it is big, with a strong teachers' union that contributed to the decision not to extend the school year which likely hurt on the Algebra test scores this year, diverse and growing, with a Superintendent trying to figure out how to make his name here. Many of the individual schools are truly outstanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some data from the MCPS schools at a glance website: in 10 years the district has gone from 22% free lunch to 34%.

Montgomery County has positioned themselves for only the rich who can afford private and don't need county services and the poor. They don't want the "middle" class/income families and are running them out.

Then they will need to try harder. My household is the median household income in Montgomery County, and we like it here just fine. We're not going anywhere.

I grew up here and I can't wait to bail. If we could get what we put into our house we'd move to Howard or another county. We can get a bigger house, less traffic, closer to my husband's job and the schools are better.

In 1980, there were about 580,000 people in Montgomery County, and roughly 83% were white. There are now about a million people, and roughly 58% are white. It's not the same county you grew up in; that's a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some data from the MCPS schools at a glance website: in 10 years the district has gone from 22% free lunch to 34%.

Montgomery County has positioned themselves for only the rich who can afford private and don't need county services and the poor. They don't want the "middle" class/income families and are running them out.

Then they will need to try harder. My household is the median household income in Montgomery County, and we like it here just fine. We're not going anywhere.

I grew up here and I can't wait to bail. If we could get what we put into our house we'd move to Howard or another county. We can get a bigger house, less traffic, closer to my husband's job and the schools are better.

I am in the same boat as you. I made the mistake of touring a couple private schools (which we can't afford since living in MC is espensive). i almost cried when i saw the huge difference in what my tax dollars are paying for and what my child will get if we could afford an extra 25K a year. We ran the numbers and just can't swing it. But...light at the end of the tunnel...joined a meetup group where there are several parents from HC and AA counties. Have had many conversations with them on their public schools and I liked what I heard. Kids get more individual attention due to the smaller class sizes. More resources for the average student since there is a much smaller ESOL population. More field trips an cool activities. one of the meetup was at one of the mom's house and I was impressed with all the priojects her 2nd grader brought home. In Montgomery County my daughter brought home no art projects...NOTHING!!!! Despite repeatedly asking for some of her work to be sent home. When I ask the teachers how she is doing - all I get is fine, but she ended up with all Ps on her report card - which is fine for MC but not fine for me. My kid always says she is bored in class and the teacher is too busy to help her when she needs it. Of course she is busy. One teacher in a class of 23 with w SN kids and about 7 ESOL students. How can anyone do well in that environment??

[Anonymous]

Declining. I regret moving here for the schools and wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

The grading system is bizarre and de-motivates kids. Math is abysmal. The writing assignments can be interesting but the kids don't get feedback on how to improve their writing. The science component is random at best. The whole curriculum is a hodge-podge mess. The teachers that we have encountered are all nice and energetic. They could do so much better if they were not struggling with the poor curriculum and bad grading system.

I've spoken with parents who have older kids about why MCPS was considered good in the past. Based on our poor experience, I don't understand how it could have ever been good. Some parents had an interesting comment that the teaching wasn't better or worse before but the system embraced academic achievement and didn't get in a kid's way if they were motivated to learn. 2.0 is a complete reversal where academic achievement his avoided at all costs and kids are supposed to level off to let all the underperforming kids look equal to them.

There was more homework in the past so parents who were willing to be engage could encourage their kid to improve their writing and teachers backed this up. Now, everything is a P even if its poorly done. The work is done in class only so parents can't encourage the child to do better even if its only a P no matter what and the teachers in class don't encourage the kid to do any better than the lowest bar. The same is true for math. MCPS used to attract STEM parents with kids that ,surprise, are good at math. These kids have no where to go since acceleration is no longer allowed. In the past, there was peer pressure to be in the higher math groups so even kids who weren't naturally great at math would work harder to get into the class. I guess MCPS decided that it didn't want to make anyone who couldn't get into the higher math class feel bad so they dumbed down math for everyone. This way everyone gets a P.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You would think this would be a good place to come for some advice but . . . you get the same angry anti-immigrant rants no matter what question you ask about MCPS, so you need to take that into consideration. We moved from Massachusetts which was recently rated the best schools but MCPS has more to offer than most of the good suburban schools there because it is county as opposed to town based, which poses its own problems of course. MCPS is huge, and it serves a diverse population. The prior Superintendent made it a priority to try to improve the quality of schools serving lower-income folks with some success, this is one of the things that drives some of the posters nuts because it is not their kids. But it is the right thing to do. The problem the County has is trying to serve the various constituencies -- but at the HS level, there are good schools throughout the District, and I assume this is true at the elementary school level too (MS everywhere are a mixed bag). The current Superintendent seems much less focussed than the prior -- he is young and ambitious but was recently publicly rejected for consideration for the NY School job and I think he is likely trying to figure out how to improve his public reputation, and he seems less focussed on improving the district. There is a new Curriculum and there has been some problems with the roll out, but that is not unique to MCPS. Long and short, these are some of the best public schools in the country, no matter how you measure them, they are not perfect and could be better but the problem is not that lower-income folks are sapping all of the resources. The problem, if there is one, is that it is big, with a strong teachers' union that contributed to the decision not to extend the school year which likely hurt on the Algebra test scores this year, diverse and growing, with a Superintendent trying to figure out how to make his name here. Many of the individual schools are truly outstanding.

The outstanding schools have little diversity. None of their resources need to go to bringing the low performers up to speed. Spend a day at a school in Potomac vs a school in Wheaton and you will see what parents are upset about. Everyone thinks they want diversity but have no idea what real diversity is and the impact it makes. The well to do latino or black child with 2 successful parents has completely different values than a child that has 2 parents that don't speak English, work low paying jobs, and/or don't see the value of a good education. You can't keep throwing valuable resources into fixing a situation that isn't fixable. i am not saying to give up on these kids, but don't expect that by mixing them in with higher performers it is going to do any good. It will bring the high performers down and marginally help maybe some of the slightly more motivated kids. You have to segregate so that each child is getting the instruction and challenges that they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've spoken with parents who have older kids about why MCPS was considered good in the past. Based on our poor experience, I don't understand how it could have ever been good. Some parents had an interesting comment that the teaching wasn't better or worse before but the system embraced academic achievement and didn't get in a kid's way if they were motivated to learn. 2.0 is a complete reversal where academic achievement his avoided at all costs and kids are supposed to level off to let all the underperforming kids look equal to them.

This is a common belief on DCUM. That is, the belief that MCPS has a policy to keep high-achieving kids (aka my kids) down in order to make low-achieving kids (aka those other kids) look better. And yet nobody has ever provided the slightest shred of actual evidence that this is MCPS's policy. Either MCPS as an organization is amazing at keeping secrets, or it's not MCPS's policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The outstanding schools have little diversity. None of their resources need to go to bringing the low performers up to speed. Spend a day at a school in Potomac vs a school in Wheaton and you will see what parents are upset about. Everyone thinks they want diversity but have no idea what real diversity is and the impact it makes. The well to do latino or black child with 2 successful parents has completely different values than a child that has 2 parents that don't speak English, work low paying jobs, and/or don't see the value of a good education. You can't keep throwing valuable resources into fixing a situation that isn't fixable. i am not saying to give up on these kids, but don't expect that by mixing them in with higher performers it is going to do any good. It will bring the high performers down and marginally help maybe some of the slightly more motivated kids. You have to segregate so that each child is getting the instruction and challenges that they need.

You just did say it, in the sentence immediately preceding.

[Anonymous]

MCPS has basically abandoned the high performers, is screwing the middle performers, and is trying hard to help the lower performers but is being so ineffective they are harming them the most in the end.

Any school system that has wealthy and poor areas will redistribute resources from the rich area to the poor area. I'm fine with that personally. What bothers me is that MCPS uses the high performing areas to ride on their scores and collect their money but then screws them constantly in the name of social justice. Social justice should mean raising the bar for all. It doesn't mean abandon and screw one group for no reason.

In other school districts, its common for lower performing schools in poor areas to have more staffing but those systems also allow parents in the high SES areas to donate money and pay to provide additional teachers/staff/ The high SES areas still come out with fewer teachers/staff than the low areas but it is closer to being even. The tax funds are still allocated more to the lower performing schools. MCPS policy is to not allow parents to raise funds for staff and teachers. There are many in MCPS that want to not only divert all facilities funding to lower performing school but to also disallow parents from raising funds to improve facilities in high SES areas. I don't know if its well meaning idiocy or spite but it makes no sense from a public policy or business standpoint.

The new curriculum is focused on making the lower performing students perform better on future PARC tests. For all the hype about MCPS wanting to get out of testing, it is the ultimate teach to the test as that is only what 2.0 tries to do. MCPS decided, in its great wisdom, to develop this curriculum on its own and did a very bad job. The lower performing students will still bomb not because they are poor or unable but because the curriculum sucks. The high performers will survive and still do fine despite getting a crappy education from MCPS. The middle gets lost and learns that underachievement is the goal.