Octuplets born in California doing 'very well'

[Anonymous]

You mean the challenging situation the parents got themselves into? IUI is elective. This grotesque case shows why it should be regulated. The fact that the doctors aren't held accountable in any way is outrageous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any expression of a controversial opinion inevitably brings the moniker "troll." Sigh...Is it worth explaining?

I know that I would not allow 8 embryos to be implanted in my womb, no matter the magnitude of my desperation to bear biological children. Not taking their health into account is simply selfish. All the forthcoming impassioned protests to the contrary will not change that fact or the developmental and physical challenges these children will have to confront.

Almost certainly this was a clomid situation. Those with PCOS especially often ovulate a ton of eggs when treated with clomid. Many doctors then convert to an IVF in order to control the situation. But not everyone can afford IVF. And once there were 7 fetuses not everyone is ready to abort any of them. I agree that 8 at once is likely to lead to developmental issues and would definitely have taken action myself, but selfish is not necessarily the right adjective here.

Surely it's cheaper than 8 kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: but selfish is not necessarily the right adjective here.

Neither is a saint

[Anonymous]

I made the original "selfish" comment but maybe went too far. I agree that "not a saint either" is probably accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It wasn't in vitro or anything?

In vitro is actually a very controlled process with extremely low odds of anything more than triplets (and in the vast majority of cases anything more than twins).
Crazy higher order multiples are the result of poorly monitored IUIs (artificial insemination) or clomid use. Or maybe some really freakish natural fertility but I doubt it.

All the best to them! wow.

Where do you get your info? The number of kids that you can get from IVF is determined by two primary factors: 1) the number of fertilized eggs that you implants (some clinics have limits some don't) and 2) whether you perform a "reduction" (basically an abortion). These are not "odds" they are choices and its clear that this family "chose" to implant at least 8 (or some split) AND did not go the "reduction" route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any expression of a controversial opinion inevitably brings the moniker "troll." Sigh...Is it worth explaining?

I know that I would not allow 8 embryos to be implanted in my womb, no matter the magnitude of my desperation to bear biological children. Not taking their health into account is simply selfish. All the forthcoming impassioned protests to the contrary will not change that fact or the developmental and physical challenges these children will have to confront.

Almost certainly this was a clomid situation. Those with PCOS especially often ovulate a ton of eggs when treated with clomid. Many doctors then convert to an IVF in order to control the situation. But not everyone can afford IVF. And once there were 7 fetuses not everyone is ready to abort any of them. I agree that 8 at once is likely to lead to developmental issues and would definitely have taken action myself, but selfish is not necessarily the right adjective here.

Surely it's cheaper than 8 kids?

Well it would be if diaper companies et al didn't use families like that for publicity and donate tons of supplies! It is bizarre how this kind of thing is glorified in this country.

[Anonymous]

In vitro is actually a very controlled process with extremely low odds of anything more than triplets (and in the vast majority of cases anything more than twins).
Crazy higher order multiples are the result of poorly monitored IUIs (artificial insemination) or clomid use. Or maybe some really freakish natural fertility but I doubt it.

All the best to them! wow.


Where do you get your info? The number of kids that you can get from IVF is determined by two primary factors: 1) the number of fertilized eggs that you implants (some clinics have limits some don't) and 2) whether you perform a "reduction" (basically an abortion). These are not "odds" they are choices and its clear that this family "chose" to implant at least 8 (or some split) AND did not go the "reduction" route.

Um, maybe from the 3 IVF cycles I've done. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about since you used the terminology "implant" embryos which is a pet peave of just about anyone who has done IVF or works in the infertility field. You don't implant embryos, you transfer them. Implantation is what may or may not happen to those embryos and is the step of IVF that can't be controlled.
As to some clinics not having limits on how many embryos are transferred, I challenge you to find ONE that doesn't. This is not some decision made willy nilly by patients. Many if not all reputable clinics have growing numbers of women (virtually all of those who are are under 35 when they do IVF) who chose to only transfer one embryo at the heavy suggestion of their physician. Tranferring 8 is unheard of. Maybe it was done 10 years ago but not today.
IVF is becoming a highly controlled process and I predict in the next few years an overwhelming number of transfers will be of single embryos. THis is the wave of the future (quickly becoming the present) of IVF.

Higher order multiples are almost guarenteed to be the result of a poorly monitored injectible IUI cycle or a cancelled (for too many follicles) IUI that was followed by intercourse. For reference, the John&Kate+8 sextuplets are the result of an IUI that went all wrong.

Next time, please don't correct someone else unless you know what you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the pp but I think it's selfish on many levels. Multiples will have physiological problems, probs with organs, physical disabilities. With 8(!) babies, they won't get adequate individual attention to develop their brains. On top of that, OVERPOPULATION. Hello!

I find this absolutely irresponsible on the part of the parents.

overpopulation? are you kidding me? please, 7 more children is not going to move the dial. you have no right to judge this woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any expression of a controversial opinion inevitably brings the moniker "troll." Sigh...Is it worth explaining?

I know that I would not allow 8 embryos to be implanted in my womb, no matter the magnitude of my desperation to bear biological children. Not taking their health into account is simply selfish. All the forthcoming impassioned protests to the contrary will not change that fact or the developmental and physical challenges these children will have to confront.

you know, you don't know her situation. she may have had 6 failed ivfs previously or 4 miscarriages. her life isn't going to be easy if the kids have problems. she will need to take care of them forever... so don't judge her.

[Anonymous]

HOM can result from an ob/gyn prescribing clomid as a first attempt to treat unexplained fertility. The REs monitor and do ultrasounds to check how many follicles. Obs can prescribe clomid for several cycles as a first attempt to resolve issues. If a woman responds too well she has no idea she released too many eggs. Hop over to the TTC board sometime, lots of advice on why not to go with your ob's advice on fertility but try to go straight to a RE.

HOM can also occur if the RE does read the ultrasound correctly. It can occur if the RE sees too many follicles and says just wait to have intercourse until next cycle and the mom still does. They can miscalculate the dates/times to avoid sex. It can just be a fluke with the fertility treatments. No one on this board knows what went wrong so calling the mother or the doctor names isn't very appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Um, maybe from the 3 IVF cycles I've done. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about since you used the terminology "implant" embryos which is a pet peave of just about anyone who has done IVF or works in the infertility field. You don't implant embryos, you transfer them. Implantation is what may or may not happen to those embryos and is the step of IVF that can't be controlled.
As to some clinics not having limits on how many embryos are transferred, I challenge you to find ONE that doesn't. This is not some decision made willy nilly by patients. Many if not all reputable clinics have growing numbers of women (virtually all of those who are are under 35 when they do IVF) who chose to only transfer one embryo at the heavy suggestion of their physician. Tranferring 8 is unheard of. Maybe it was done 10 years ago but not today.
IVF is becoming a highly controlled process and I predict in the next few years an overwhelming number of transfers will be of single embryos. THis is the wave of the future (quickly becoming the present) of IVF.

Higher order multiples are almost guarenteed to be the result of a poorly monitored injectible IUI cycle or a cancelled (for too many follicles) IUI that was followed by intercourse. For reference, the John&Kate+8 sextuplets are the result of an IUI that went all wrong.Next time, please don't correct someone else unless you know what you are talking about.

For what I've heard it was a cancelled IUI (because she had too many follicles) but they went ahead and had intercourse. Well, there isn't really a way for doctors to stop people from having intercourse in those situations.

Agree with you pp - clinics do self-regulate and at Shady Grove for instance, they didn't want to go on with an IUI because I had more than 3 follies developing - I was luck that one stopped growing at the end (below 15mm).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any expression of a controversial opinion inevitably brings the moniker "troll." Sigh...Is it worth explaining?

I know that I would not allow 8 embryos to be implanted in my womb, no matter the magnitude of my desperation to bear biological children. Not taking their health into account is simply selfish. All the forthcoming impassioned protests to the contrary will not change that fact or the developmental and physical challenges these children will have to confront.

you know, you don't know her situation. she may have had 6 failed ivfs previously or 4 miscarriages. her life isn't going to be easy if the kids have problems. she will need to take care of them forever... so don't judge her.

I have said that I went overboard by calling her selfish. But knowing she had 6 failed IVFs or 4 miscarriages would not change the ethics of it for me. Ethically a parent should still put the health of her future children above her emotional needs. As hard as it must be to care for differently abled children I can't imagine knowing one's conscious decision -- to have biological children at any cost -- contributed to their condition makes caring for them any easier. You are right that she should be pitied.