Top 10 Universities - Holistic Admissions Fact or Fiction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"BWAHAHAHA! YOu do know all those little red dots are "denieds"? "

Which has what to do about the green and blue dots?

I count maybe 10-15 "outlier" green and blue dots. You do know that harvard received 35,000 applications this year and only 2,100 acceptances were mailed out 6.2% of applications, and the 865 come from EA.

The scatter gram may or may not be representative, but you don't think it shows 35,000 dots do you? Not all applicants are shown. I see quite a few green and blue dots at the 30 ACT score - that is hardly perfect. And this is HARVARD, there are other top schools with more "outliers" - generally these are those with one of the Big 3 Hooks. Probably more UREM and Athlete than Legacy, but some of all to be sure.

Yes, it does show all 35,000 - read above - those blue and green dots are single students - the rest are all crammed on top of each other in the upper right hand corner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is more complete Harvard information:

http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

As noted recruited athletes have an average SAT score that is 173 points less than the overall average.

Harvard stop reporting average UREM scores years ago, but at last report the average was about 100 points less than the overall average.

These two categories alone cannot account for the many "non perfect" scores,

25% of those admitted to Harvard scored less than 32 on the ACT. There aren't enough recruited athletes to account for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is more complete Harvard information:

http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

As noted recruited athletes have an average SAT score that is 173 points less than the overall average.

Harvard stop reporting average UREM scores years ago, but at last report the average was about 100 points less than the overall average.

These two categories alone cannot account for the many "non perfect" scores,

25% of those admitted to Harvard scored less than 32 on the ACT. There aren't enough recruited athletes to account for that.

Source? The link doesn't say anything about ACT scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is more complete Harvard information:

http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

As noted recruited athletes have an average SAT score that is 173 points less than the overall average.

Harvard stop reporting average UREM scores years ago, but at last report the average was about 100 points less than the overall average.

These two categories alone cannot account for the many "non perfect" scores,

25% of those admitted to Harvard scored less than 32 on the ACT. There aren't enough recruited athletes to account for that.

Source for the URM differential, please? A 100 point differential "years ago" just doesn't cut it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is more complete Harvard information:

http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

As noted recruited athletes have an average SAT score that is 173 points less than the overall average.

Harvard stop reporting average UREM scores years ago, but at last report the average was about 100 points less than the overall average.

These two categories alone cannot account for the many "non perfect" scores,

25% of those admitted to Harvard scored less than 32 on the ACT. There aren't enough recruited athletes to account for that.

Oh, look! At the very same link above, if you just click on the next tab to the right, you see the average SAT scores of Harvard admits by minority status. (They don't give your ACT stat, so I'm guessing you made that up?)

Hmmm, average AA SAT was 2107. Average Hispanic/Latino was 2167. These are solid 95th percentile scores (http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-2013.pdf) and they translate to over 700 in each of the 3 SAT parts (math, english, writing), with some give or take to get those 2100+ averages.

Bet your SATs weren't as high as any of these! (Back in the day I got a 1580 out of 1600, perhaps that's why I can interpret facts like this for people like you....)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is more complete Harvard information:

http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

As noted recruited athletes have an average SAT score that is 173 points less than the overall average.

Harvard stop reporting average UREM scores years ago, but at last report the average was about 100 points less than the overall average.

These two categories alone cannot account for the many "non perfect" scores,

25% of those admitted to Harvard scored less than 32 on the ACT. There aren't enough recruited athletes to account for that.

Oh, look! At the very same link above, if you just click on the next tab to the right, you see the average SAT scores of Harvard admits by minority status. (They don't give your ACT stat, so I'm guessing you made that up?)

Hmmm, average AA SAT was 2107. Average Hispanic/Latino was 2167. These are solid 95th percentile scores (http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-2013.pdf) and they translate to over 700 in each of the 3 SAT parts (math, english, writing), with some give or take to get those 2100+ averages.

Bet your SATs weren't as high as any of these! (Back in the day I got a 1580 out of 1600, perhaps that's why I can interpret facts like this for people like you....)

Interesting, these were self reported scores/grades based on an e-mail survey. I wonder how closely they mirror the statistics the university keeps and if it's a representative sample.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is more complete Harvard information:

http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

As noted recruited athletes have an average SAT score that is 173 points less than the overall average.

Harvard stop reporting average UREM scores years ago, but at last report the average was about 100 points less than the overall average.

These two categories alone cannot account for the many "non perfect" scores,

25% of those admitted to Harvard scored less than 32 on the ACT. There aren't enough recruited athletes to account for that.

Oh, look! At the very same link above, if you just click on the next tab to the right, you see the average SAT scores of Harvard admits by minority status. (They don't give your ACT stat, so I'm guessing you made that up?)

Hmmm, average AA SAT was 2107. Average Hispanic/Latino was 2167. These are solid 95th percentile scores (http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-2013.pdf) and they translate to over 700 in each of the 3 SAT parts (math, english, writing), with some give or take to get those 2100+ averages.

Bet your SATs weren't as high as any of these! (Back in the day I got a 1580 out of 1600, perhaps that's why I can interpret facts like this for people like you....)

Interesting, these were self reported scores/grades based on an e-mail survey. I wonder how closely they mirror the statistics the university keeps and if it's a representative sample.

Do you really think The Crimson would post them, if there was reason to believe they were wide off the mark?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is more complete Harvard information:

http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

As noted recruited athletes have an average SAT score that is 173 points less than the overall average.

Harvard stop reporting average UREM scores years ago, but at last report the average was about 100 points less than the overall average.

These two categories alone cannot account for the many "non perfect" scores,

25% of those admitted to Harvard scored less than 32 on the ACT. There aren't enough recruited athletes to account for that.

Oh, look! At the very same link above, if you just click on the next tab to the right, you see the average SAT scores of Harvard admits by minority status. (They don't give your ACT stat, so I'm guessing you made that up?)

Hmmm, average AA SAT was 2107. Average Hispanic/Latino was 2167. These are solid 95th percentile scores (http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-2013.pdf) and they translate to over 700 in each of the 3 SAT parts (math, english, writing), with some give or take to get those 2100+ averages.

Bet your SATs weren't as high as any of these! (Back in the day I got a 1580 out of 1600, perhaps that's why I can interpret facts like this for people like you....)

Interesting, these were self reported scores/grades based on an e-mail survey. I wonder how closely they mirror the statistics the university keeps and if it's a representative sample.

Do you really think The Crimson would post them, if there was reason to believe they were wide off the mark?

Yes, otherwise they would just make their official statistics known; why don't they do that? There's a lot of angst about AA; if they thought that something like this would help by showing a smaller gap than actually existed I think they would welcome that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is more complete Harvard information:

http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

As noted recruited athletes have an average SAT score that is 173 points less than the overall average.

Harvard stop reporting average UREM scores years ago, but at last report the average was about 100 points less than the overall average.

These two categories alone cannot account for the many "non perfect" scores,

25% of those admitted to Harvard scored less than 32 on the ACT. There aren't enough recruited athletes to account for that.

Oh, look! At the very same link above, if you just click on the next tab to the right, you see the average SAT scores of Harvard admits by minority status. (They don't give your ACT stat, so I'm guessing you made that up?)

Hmmm, average AA SAT was 2107. Average Hispanic/Latino was 2167. These are solid 95th percentile scores (http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-2013.pdf) and they translate to over 700 in each of the 3 SAT parts (math, english, writing), with some give or take to get those 2100+ averages.

Bet your SATs weren't as high as any of these! (Back in the day I got a 1580 out of 1600, perhaps that's why I can interpret facts like this for people like you....)

Let me help you out here:

To begin with, 2107 is a terrific SAT score, but it isn't "near perfect" and it is actually subpar for Harvard. According to this site: http://magoosh.com/sat/2013/harvard-sat-scores/
Anyone at 2100 or lower was in the lowest 25% of those gaining admission to Harvard. If the average AA SAT was 2107 then about have scores in the lowest 25%- 2100 would be a strong score for Michigan, not Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know of an actual example of a kid that got into one of these schools without near perfect SAT or GPA, besides sports stars? Please provide specific examples, if so. I am so tired of sitting through tours and hearing this and then seeing their GPA/ SAT ranges.

Here's some info on the TOP 25 schools (by SAT) - as you can see that highest average SAT is Caltech at 2300 - a terrific score, but not "near perfect." Bottom line, there are MANY students getting into these top schools without "near perfect" SAT scores.

http://www.businessinsider.com/colleges-with-the-highest-sat-scores-2013-4?op=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is more complete Harvard information:

http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

As noted recruited athletes have an average SAT score that is 173 points less than the overall average.

Harvard stop reporting average UREM scores years ago, but at last report the average was about 100 points less than the overall average.

These two categories alone cannot account for the many "non perfect" scores,

25% of those admitted to Harvard scored less than 32 on the ACT. There aren't enough recruited athletes to account for that.

Oh, look! At the very same link above, if you just click on the next tab to the right, you see the average SAT scores of Harvard admits by minority status. (They don't give your ACT stat, so I'm guessing you made that up?)

Hmmm, average AA SAT was 2107. Average Hispanic/Latino was 2167. These are solid 95th percentile scores (http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-2013.pdf) and they translate to over 700 in each of the 3 SAT parts (math, english, writing), with some give or take to get those 2100+ averages.

Bet your SATs weren't as high as any of these! (Back in the day I got a 1580 out of 1600, perhaps that's why I can interpret facts like this for people like you....)

Let me help you out here:

To begin with, 2107 is a terrific SAT score, but it isn't "near perfect" and it is actually subpar for Harvard. According to this site: http://magoosh.com/sat/2013/harvard-sat-scores/
Anyone at 2100 or lower was in the lowest 25% of those gaining admission to Harvard. If the average AA SAT was 2107 then about have scores in the lowest 25%- 2100 would be a strong score for Michigan, not Harvard.

Bottom line: 2100 is in the top 95th percentile of all kids taking the SATs. Hardly the shabby performance some of you are trying to portray it as.

The premise behind your whinging seems to be that SATs should dominate other considerations, like personal history or race. But let's look at this another way. Do you really think that Harvard should start at the kids with 2400s and pick their way down to 2380, 2360, until they fill the class? Your 2150 non-minority kid still won't get in. And Harvard doesn't think this would make for an interesting class of future leaders in their fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is more complete Harvard information:

http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

As noted recruited athletes have an average SAT score that is 173 points less than the overall average.

Harvard stop reporting average UREM scores years ago, but at last report the average was about 100 points less than the overall average.

These two categories alone cannot account for the many "non perfect" scores,

25% of those admitted to Harvard scored less than 32 on the ACT. There aren't enough recruited athletes to account for that.

Oh, look! At the very same link above, if you just click on the next tab to the right, you see the average SAT scores of Harvard admits by minority status. (They don't give your ACT stat, so I'm guessing you made that up?)

Hmmm, average AA SAT was 2107. Average Hispanic/Latino was 2167. These are solid 95th percentile scores (http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percentile-Ranks-2013.pdf) and they translate to over 700 in each of the 3 SAT parts (math, english, writing), with some give or take to get those 2100+ averages.

Bet your SATs weren't as high as any of these! (Back in the day I got a 1580 out of 1600, perhaps that's why I can interpret facts like this for people like you....)

Let me help you out here:

To begin with, 2107 is a terrific SAT score, but it isn't "near perfect" and it is actually subpar for Harvard. According to this site: http://magoosh.com/sat/2013/harvard-sat-scores/
Anyone at 2100 or lower was in the lowest 25% of those gaining admission to Harvard. If the average AA SAT was 2107 then about have scores in the lowest 25%- 2100 would be a strong score for Michigan, not Harvard.

Bottom line: 2100 is in the top 95th percentile of all kids taking the SATs. Hardly the shabby performance some of you are trying to portray it as.

The premise behind your whinging seems to be that SATs should dominate other considerations, like personal history or race. But let's look at this another way. Do you really think that Harvard should start at the kids with 2400s and pick their way down to 2380, 2360, until they fill the class? Your 2150 non-minority kid still won't get in. And Harvard doesn't think this would make for an interesting class of future leaders in their fields.

If that's the actual average. I'd guess that the kids w/ sub-par scores would be less likely to submit their scores; just human nature. Your point is well taken though; even the "less qualified" Harvard admits are very impressive kids.

[Anonymous]

I agree. As a parent of a minority with a 2050 SAT score, I think he got in because of wonderful recommendations and amazing leadership qualities. BYW, the difference in score made no difference in his performance at HYP. He works very hard and is excelling. Was he less qualified than others? I do not believe so.
This is what schools mean when they say they consider "the whole student."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree. As a parent of a minority with a 2050 SAT score, I think he got in because of wonderful recommendations and amazing leadership qualities. BYW, the difference in score made no difference in his performance at HYP. He works very hard and is excelling. Was he less qualified than others? I do not believe so.
This is what schools mean when they say they consider "the whole student."

He got in because of Affirmative Action which treats different race groups differently. You can't even dream of applying to HYP with that kind of score unless you are URM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree. As a parent of a minority with a 2050 SAT score, I think he got in because of wonderful recommendations and amazing leadership qualities. BYW, the difference in score made no difference in his performance at HYP. He works very hard and is excelling. Was he less qualified than others? I do not believe so.
This is what schools mean when they say they consider "the whole student."

That might be true for your child, but overall minorities do considerably worse at selective schools. This disparity disappears once you correct for SAT scores. In addition, many URM students leave the more challenging majors at a much higher rate than their white and Asian counterparts. In one study I saw, 85% of AA students were in the bottom 40%, with 53% in the bottom 20%. Only 5% were in the top 20% of the class.