GDS vs NCS

[Anonymous]

I really think that the academic experience at both schools in terms of rigor etc is going to be incredibly similar. The PP who said "NCS definitely stronger academically" is living in the 1970s or 80s I think, looking at % NMSFs etc, very similar.

GDS has really nurtured some incredible math students over the past 5 years, including two who placed really high in international math competitions, one of those was a girl, both left GDS after junior year for MIT because they simply were ready and were such prodigies that they ran out of classes at GDS. But girls really strong in math but not world class prodigies are very well supported in math at GDS as well, some really excellent upper school math teachers, and a great math team environment and coach. I think almost half of the kids on the team are girls.

I really think you should leave this up to your kid, if they are in MS or HS. The cultures/feeling/social environment are pretty different at the two schools, beyond the obvious coed vs all girl. If LS this is very early to be worrying about these issues and should just choose where you and your DD feel comfortable now, there is a reasonable amount of movement between the top independent schools for HS, if a really good student at one of these schools, in our experience moving was easy (one of my kids did move from one "big 3" to another another for HS)

[Anonymous]

GDS is much better, in every aspect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GDS is much better, in every aspect.

Superb analysis. Thanks, very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Love the GDS math program, but it is nevertheless true that the upper math and science (quantum mechanics and modern phys) are mostly boys. It is not that girls are excluded, but that is how it has been with the exception of the girl who graduated after junior year, referenced above. I don't think it is sexism. However, for a top-notch math girl, if she can get what she needs in an environment with more girls (NCS), it would be a different experience. Can't necessarily say better or worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GDS is much better, in every aspect.

OP here. Can you please elaborate more why you think so? In what aspect? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So NSC help girls concentrate in class?

That's one argument for the benefits of single-sex education for girls, yeah -- not just concentrating, but not worrying about what boys in their classes will think (whether they're afraid of seeming "too smart," or reluctant to raise their hand in case they end up looking foolish in front of a boy they like).

Also, in single-sex schools for girls, all the leadership positions in student government, clubs, etc., are held by girls.

This is an advocacy group for single-sex education, so not unbiased, but they offer some arguments as to the benefits for girls: http://www.singlesexschools.org/research-forgirls.htm

I've seen how much defining gender matters in my daughter's preK and K classes -- they are so preoccupied with defining gender roles ("girl things" and "boy things") and policing who does what, and I spend more time than I'd like trying to undo that. It gets more subtle as kids get older, but it doesn't go away. The idea is that single-sex education shields kids from that to some extent.

FWIW, I went to NCS (in the dark ages, a/k/a the '80s), and based on that experience I think single-sex education offers a lot of benefits for girls (and not so many for boys). I chose NCS over GDS because, at the time (=when I was 10), I was a little put off by the "hippie" vibe at GDS. However, in summer programs and at college I met a bunch of great, smart people from GDS, and I have a very positive impression of the school.

For a daughter, I'd really be torn between the two schools, and I might well leave the decision to her. (For a son, I'd pick GDS over StA, no question.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So NSC help girls concentrate in class?

That's one argument for the benefits of single-sex education for girls, yeah -- not just concentrating, but not worrying about what boys in their classes will think (whether they're afraid of seeming "too smart," or reluctant to raise their hand in case they end up looking foolish in front of a boy they like).

Also, in single-sex schools for girls, all the leadership positions in student government, clubs, etc., are held by girls.

This is an advocacy group for single-sex education, so not unbiased, but they offer some arguments as to the benefits for girls: http://www.singlesexschools.org/research-forgirls.htm

I've seen how much defining gender matters in my daughter's preK and K classes -- they are so preoccupied with defining gender roles ("girl things" and "boy things") and policing who does what, and I spend more time than I'd like trying to undo that. It gets more subtle as kids get older, but it doesn't go away. The idea is that single-sex education shields kids from that to some extent.

FWIW, I went to NCS (in the dark ages, a/k/a the '80s), and based on that experience I think single-sex education offers a lot of benefits for girls (and not so many for boys). I chose NCS over GDS because, at the time (=when I was 10), I was a little put off by the "hippie" vibe at GDS. However, in summer programs and at college I met a bunch of great, smart people from GDS, and I have a very positive impression of the school.

for a son you will choose GDS over st alban? Is it because academically GDS is better or because you think boys benefit more from coed? GDS seems not having as good sports team as st albans, do you think that is a problem?

For a daughter, I'd really be torn between the two schools, and I might well leave the decision to her. (For a son, I'd pick GDS over StA, no question.)

[Anonymous]

Why for boys GDS is better? Is it because it has stronger academic or because coed benefits boys more?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So NSC help girls concentrate in class?

That's one argument for the benefits of single-sex education for girls, yeah -- not just concentrating, but not worrying about what boys in their classes will think (whether they're afraid of seeming "too smart," or reluctant to raise their hand in case they end up looking foolish in front of a boy they like).

Also, in single-sex schools for girls, all the leadership positions in student government, clubs, etc., are held by girls.

This is an advocacy group for single-sex education, so not unbiased, but they offer some arguments as to the benefits for girls: http://www.singlesexschools.org/research-forgirls.htm

I've seen how much defining gender matters in my daughter's preK and K classes -- they are so preoccupied with defining gender roles ("girl things" and "boy things") and policing who does what, and I spend more time than I'd like trying to undo that. It gets more subtle as kids get older, but it doesn't go away. The idea is that single-sex education shields kids from that to some extent.

FWIW, I went to NCS (in the dark ages, a/k/a the '80s), and based on that experience I think single-sex education offers a lot of benefits for girls (and not so many for boys). I chose NCS over GDS because, at the time (=when I was 10), I was a little put off by the "hippie" vibe at GDS. However, in summer programs and at college I met a bunch of great, smart people from GDS, and I have a very positive impression of the school.

For a daughter, I'd really be torn between the two schools, and I might well leave the decision to her. (For a son, I'd pick GDS over StA, no question.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why for boys GDS is better? Is it because it has stronger academic or because coed benefits boys more?

Anonymous wrote:

This thread is not about the boys. The comparisons made have been between NCS and GDS for girls. If you look at boys, the comparison would have to be St A (not coed) and GDS. One person said GDS. But I think the point is that more boys end up in the top math/science classes at GDS, and I'm guessing at all coed privates in the area, so if you are a girl you may feel outnumbered (plus all the other reasons PPs raised such as worried about trade off between popularity and being seen as smart).

[Anonymous]

NCS has stronger sports if that makes a difference.

[Anonymous]

Yes, NCS's sports teams perform stronger. My impression is that the sports culture at GDS is very supportive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why for boys GDS is better? Is it because it has stronger academic or because coed benefits boys more?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So NSC help girls concentrate in class?

That's one argument for the benefits of single-sex education for girls, yeah -- not just concentrating, but not worrying about what boys in their classes will think (whether they're afraid of seeming "too smart," or reluctant to raise their hand in case they end up looking foolish in front of a boy they like).

Also, in single-sex schools for girls, all the leadership positions in student government, clubs, etc., are held by girls.

This is an advocacy group for single-sex education, so not unbiased, but they offer some arguments as to the benefits for girls: http://www.singlesexschools.org/research-forgirls.htm

I've seen how much defining gender matters in my daughter's preK and K classes -- they are so preoccupied with defining gender roles ("girl things" and "boy things") and policing who does what, and I spend more time than I'd like trying to undo that. It gets more subtle as kids get older, but it doesn't go away. The idea is that single-sex education shields kids from that to some extent.

FWIW, I went to NCS (in the dark ages, a/k/a the '80s), and based on that experience I think single-sex education offers a lot of benefits for girls (and not so many for boys). I chose NCS over GDS because, at the time (=when I was 10), I was a little put off by the "hippie" vibe at GDS. However, in summer programs and at college I met a bunch of great, smart people from GDS, and I have a very positive impression of the school.

For a daughter, I'd really be torn between the two schools, and I might well leave the decision to her. (For a son, I'd pick GDS over StA, no question.)

I'm the one who said I'd pick GDS over StA -- I just felt like StA was a shitty environment for boys. Academically very srong, yes -- but it seemed to me (as an NCS student at the time, so not unbiased) that it inculcated a sense of entitlement that really bothered me. Most of the boys at StA are coming from a place of privilege already, they don't need to be told they're going to grow up and rule the world, they need to be talked down from that assumption.

Also, I think single-sex environments for boys can really reinforce rigid, traditional notions of masculinity. That's especially bad for boys who are in any way non-gender conforming -- I had one friend in HS who later came out as gay, and another who was straight but dressed like a dandy, and they both took a lot of verbal and physical shit for that -- but I don't think it's great for *any* boy.

But OP wasn't asking about boys.

[Anonymous]

Regarding sports, really depends on which girls' sport, can't make that blanket statement. Track and cross country really strong at GDS, basketball has traditionally been as strong or stronger than NCS (which until this year was in lower division of ISL or A, GDS in AA for years, NCS had one fantastic player this year who is graduating I believe), volleyball often quite strong at GDS. NCS generally a soccer powerhouse, but last few years GDS has been towards top of AA as well, and has been competitive with/beaten Visi/Sidwell and other traditionally strong teams. Lacrosse at GDS very weak as is crew (particularly compared to NCS), but overall girls sports are not necessarily a weakness at GDS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why for boys GDS is better? Is it because it has stronger academic or because coed benefits boys more?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So NSC help girls concentrate in class?

That's one argument for the benefits of single-sex education for girls, yeah -- not just concentrating, but not worrying about what boys in their classes will think (whether they're afraid of seeming "too smart," or reluctant to raise their hand in case they end up looking foolish in front of a boy they like).

Also, in single-sex schools for girls, all the leadership positions in student government, clubs, etc., are held by girls.

This is an advocacy group for single-sex education, so not unbiased, but they offer some arguments as to the benefits for girls: http://www.singlesexschools.org/research-forgirls.htm

I've seen how much defining gender matters in my daughter's preK and K classes -- they are so preoccupied with defining gender roles ("girl things" and "boy things") and policing who does what, and I spend more time than I'd like trying to undo that. It gets more subtle as kids get older, but it doesn't go away. The idea is that single-sex education shields kids from that to some extent.

FWIW, I went to NCS (in the dark ages, a/k/a the '80s), and based on that experience I think single-sex education offers a lot of benefits for girls (and not so many for boys). I chose NCS over GDS because, at the time (=when I was 10), I was a little put off by the "hippie" vibe at GDS. However, in summer programs and at college I met a bunch of great, smart people from GDS, and I have a very positive impression of the school.

For a daughter, I'd really be torn between the two schools, and I might well leave the decision to her. (For a son, I'd pick GDS over StA, no question.)

I'm the one who said I'd pick GDS over StA -- I just felt like StA was a shitty environment for boys. Academically very srong, yes -- but it seemed to me (as an NCS student at the time, so not unbiased) that it inculcated a sense of entitlement that really bothered me. Most of the boys at StA are coming from a place of privilege already, they don't need to be told they're going to grow up and rule the world, they need to be talked down from that assumption.

Also, I think single-sex environments for boys can really reinforce rigid, traditional notions of masculinity. That's especially bad for boys who are in any way non-gender conforming -- I had one friend in HS who later came out as gay, and another who was straight but dressed like a dandy, and they both took a lot of verbal and physical shit for that -- but I don't think it's great for *any* boy.

But OP wasn't asking about boys.

I went to ncs as well and very much agree with this.

I think most ncs grads would not send their sons to sta.

[Anonymous]

I am yet another NCS grad that would not send my son to STA (or any all boys shook for that matter).

As for the OP's question, NCS and GDS are two very different schools. I think your family needs to decide based on what best suits her strengths and wishes. I think GDS could offer more variety and freedom, but I think NCS could ultimately offer more opportunity. I am keeping it vague because it is indeed a vague question with no right answer that an anonymous forum can provide.