Advice for a 1st year associate attorney?

[Anonymous]

Don't buy a car. You don't need one in dc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to bill anything close to 2300 to keep the checks coming. This is DC, not NY.

Hah. My dh in dc billed over 3000 last year and feels he needs to bill over 2400 to avoid getting fired.

Your DH billed, on average, 58 hours a week? I call bullshit. Working 60+ hours a week, sure, but you can't bill every waking minute unless you're doing some serious fraudulent puffery on your billables.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm a debt-avoider and come at this from that perspective. Don't make life unbearable, but don't let those loans stick around for long. You've been living like a student, keep doing that:

1) Rent a decent but inexpensive place. Life on a metro or bus line and try to avoid that car.

2) Make a budget once your first full paycheck comes through (so you'll know what to expect). If you get paid every 2 weeks, treat it as though you get paid twice a month - every six months you'll get 3 paychecks in a month and you'll be able to save that whole paycheck.

Having a budget means you telling your money where to go, not just watching as it disappears. Lay it all out: rent, utilities, car, student loans, eating out, food, etc.

3) I would contribute to a 401k up to the the match and nothing else until your student loans are gone. I don't care about the interest rate - they're a noose around your neck.

4) Save up a 3 month emergency fund asap. Pay minimums on your student loan until you have that emergency fund funded.

5) Plow into those student loans. Put up a temperature gauge thing on your fridge and mark off your progress as you go. You may come to hate your job at some point, and having the student loans paid off (NO MATTER WHAT INTEREST RATE THEY'RE AT) will provide you the freedom to make choices about your life based on your passions and interests, instead of what you owe Sallie May.

You are young, single (?), and have a huge salary. Don't let this forum make you feel poor - my husband and I and two sons live on 85K in NW DC and we do just fine. 160K is an enormous salary. DO NOT LET THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SAVE PASS YOU BY. Get an emergency fund in place, contribute to the 401k up to the match, and the get those student loans gone.

After that, start investing in a Roth IRA, bulk up to a 6-month emergency fund, and start investing in mutual funds (never single stocks). That's the point you can start saving for a home, too. I'm a real-estate girl, we own 7 rental properties and we love it. But start by just saving up a good 20% down-payment on a home for yourself (maybe with a rental apartment downstairs - you can live in it yourself or rent it out and it will offset a huge amount of your mortgage).

Congratulations on all of your hard work. Don't let it go to waste by living like a fancy lawyer! As Dave Ramsey says, live like nobody else right now so that someday you can live like nobody else!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to bill anything close to 2300 to keep the checks coming. This is DC, not NY.

Hah. My dh in dc billed over 3000 last year and feels he needs to bill over 2400 to avoid getting fired.

Your DH billed, on average, 58 hours a week? I call bullshit. Working 60+ hours a week, sure, but you can't bill every waking minute unless you're doing some serious fraudulent puffery on your billables.

Yes, over 3000 billables. He was working 18 hour days for weeks at a time and 14 to 16 otherwise. He did not bill fraudulently. He was often stuck in conference rooms at least 12 hours a day, allowed out only for bathroom breaks as meals were ordered in, and then had to continue working after the meetings were over.

He did not get enough sleep and ate horrible food ordered in practically every meal and never got to work out. It was awful for his health. Billing 2400 seemed like vacation in comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to bill anything close to 2300 to keep the checks coming. This is DC, not NY.

Hah. My dh in dc billed over 3000 last year and feels he needs to bill over 2400 to avoid getting fired.

Your DH billed, on average, 58 hours a week? I call bullshit. Working 60+ hours a week, sure, but you can't bill every waking minute unless you're doing some serious fraudulent puffery on your billables.

Yes, over 3000 billables. He was working 18 hour days for weeks at a time and 14 to 16 otherwise. He did not bill fraudulently. He was often stuck in conference rooms at least 12 hours a day, allowed out only for bathroom breaks as meals were ordered in, and then had to continue working after the meetings were over.

He did not get enough sleep and ate horrible food ordered in practically every meal and never got to work out. It was awful for his health. Billing 2400 seemed like vacation in comparison.

He's lying to you. No client is paying for 12+ hrs a day for "weeks at a time."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, over 3000 billables. He was working 18 hour days for weeks at a time and 14 to 16 otherwise. He did not bill fraudulently. He was often stuck in conference rooms at least 12 hours a day, allowed out only for bathroom breaks as meals were ordered in, and then had to continue working after the meetings were over.

He did not get enough sleep and ate horrible food ordered in practically every meal and never got to work out. It was awful for his health. Billing 2400 seemed like vacation in comparison.

Your DH is doing a serious disservice to his fellow associates, and to associates more junior to him. He is putting out the impression that associates can and should bill those hours, when we all know that they should not. You're not doing good work product at those hours, your health and family/social life suffers, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world would op get a one bedroom plus den?! It is way too expensive.

Rent a studio. Keep living and spending like you're still a student until your loans are paid off. I agree with much of what previous posters have said, but also try to amass a nine-month emergency fund. Also get started on a down payment fund.

You could very well lose your job. Be conservative, pay off high interest loans, and save as much as you can.

Agree. I would aim for paying downs loans within two years MAX. If you're not what they're looking for or the market goes bad, you could find yourself out of a job by then.[code]

[Anonymous]

Senior associate here -- you've gotten some great advice so far.

Agree with 20:03's advice -- max out your 401(k) right away for tax benefits -- you won't get a match from your firm, but the power of compounding is so powerful that you should just take that money off the top right away. You won't really feel the impact and will get used to the money going directly into your 401(k).

After that, I agree with everyone's advice to live cheaply and avoid buying a car if possible. If you're really disciplined, you could even bring in lunch a few times a week to save money -- or save your leftovers from dinner the night before if you've worked late and charged dinner to the firm/clients.

Also, enjoy yourself a little!! $100K in debt is nothing to sneeze at, but others have graduated with more. It's ok to treat yourself a little every so often, but keep your major expenses low (rent, car, etc.), and you'll be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, over 3000 billables. He was working 18 hour days for weeks at a time and 14 to 16 otherwise. He did not bill fraudulently. He was often stuck in conference rooms at least 12 hours a day, allowed out only for bathroom breaks as meals were ordered in, and then had to continue working after the meetings were over.

He did not get enough sleep and ate horrible food ordered in practically every meal and never got to work out. It was awful for his health. Billing 2400 seemed like vacation in comparison.

Your DH is doing a serious disservice to his fellow associates, and to associates more junior to him. He is putting out the impression that associates can and should bill those hours, when we all know that they should not. You're not doing good work product at those hours, your health and family/social life suffers, etc.

I agree. But he did work those hours. It was very unhealthy. He was on one huge project plus two other cases that he felt he couldn't say no to because the economy sucks and one partner wanted him on one case and one wanted him on another, so he did both because he felt he couldn't afford to piss off one by turning down his work. Plus both cases were "good work."

I know he was working those hours and not lying because a) some of the hours were put in at home right in front of me and b) I sometimes visited him at the hotel where the conferences were going on (it was sometimes easier for me to fly down to see him than for him to fly home and we were trying to get pregnant) and knew when he and the others were in the conference room. They were basically in lockdown mode in this hotel, living and working there for almost a year. They would all complain about how many hours they were stuck in these conference rooms.

You don't need to bill over 3000. That's excessive. But it's pretty common to bill in the mid 2000s, and in this economy, with associates getting laid off right and left, it's pretty important to keep your billables over 2,000. Someone billing 2400 a year is less likely to get laid off than someone billing 1900. Of course, it's a collective action problem. Maybe if all associates tried to keep their hours around 2000 or lower things would be better, but in this economy, it's hard to push back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to bill anything close to 2300 to keep the checks coming. This is DC, not NY.

Hah. My dh in dc billed over 3000 last year and feels he needs to bill over 2400 to avoid getting fired.

Your DH billed, on average, 58 hours a week? I call bullshit. Working 60+ hours a week, sure, but you can't bill every waking minute unless you're doing some serious fraudulent puffery on your billables.

Yes, over 3000 billables. He was working 18 hour days for weeks at a time and 14 to 16 otherwise. He did not bill fraudulently. He was often stuck in conference rooms at least 12 hours a day, allowed out only for bathroom breaks as meals were ordered in, and then had to continue working after the meetings were over.

He did not get enough sleep and ate horrible food ordered in practically every meal and never got to work out. It was awful for his health. Billing 2400 seemed like vacation in comparison.

He's lying to you. No client is paying for 12+ hrs a day for "weeks at a time."

Incorrect. I used to do large transactional work at a BigLaw and those deals frequently required 4-5 days a week at the client site all day, drafting at night and on weekends to prep for the next days' meetings. I would easily bill 260-280 a month, and some months were worse. My "best" month during my time in BigLaw hell was 317.

I did one deal where the closing negotiations were a week-long marathon where both teams went to the clients' offices and ran meetings around the clock, and we had rooms at the next door hotel where people would shower and nap.

It's bad for your health and I'm very glad to be out of it.

But, yes, clients do pay for 12+ hours a day for weeks at a time because the legal fees are dwarfed by the value of the deal.

[Anonymous]

New biglaw partner here. When I was an associate, I lived with roommates and saved as much as possible. Just wanted to get to financial independence. Got to $1M by the time I was 32. Make sure you manage your image at work in case you want to stick around. Most associates blow it within a year of being at a firm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New biglaw partner here. When I was an associate, I lived with roommates and saved as much as possible. Just wanted to get to financial independence. Got to $1M by the time I was 32. Make sure you manage your image at work in case you want to stick around. Most associates blow it within a year of being at a firm.

Interesting advice. Could you elaborate? I know why I blew it in my first few years at a big firm, but I can't really give generic advice to another junior associate to avoid my mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to bill anything close to 2300 to keep the checks coming. This is DC, not NY.

Hah. My dh in dc billed over 3000 last year and feels he needs to bill over 2400 to avoid getting fired.

Your DH billed, on average, 58 hours a week? I call bullshit. Working 60+ hours a week, sure, but you can't bill every waking minute unless you're doing some serious fraudulent puffery on your billables.

Yes, over 3000 billables. He was working 18 hour days for weeks at a time and 14 to 16 otherwise. He did not bill fraudulently. He was often stuck in conference rooms at least 12 hours a day, allowed out only for bathroom breaks as meals were ordered in, and then had to continue working after the meetings were over.

He did not get enough sleep and ate horrible food ordered in practically every meal and never got to work out. It was awful for his health. Billing 2400 seemed like vacation in comparison.

DH told me that when he's stuck in conference rooms with coworkers in his own firm, he would just get down on the floor and do pushups. He spent a lot of time on conference calls, and there was a lot of listening for large blocks of time so that's when they'd do them. He keeps a couple of free weights in his office too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to bill anything close to 2300 to keep the checks coming. This is DC, not NY.

Hah. My dh in dc billed over 3000 last year and feels he needs to bill over 2400 to avoid getting fired.

Your DH billed, on average, 58 hours a week? I call bullshit. Working 60+ hours a week, sure, but you can't bill every waking minute unless you're doing some serious fraudulent puffery on your billables.

Yes, over 3000 billables. He was working 18 hour days for weeks at a time and 14 to 16 otherwise. He did not bill fraudulently. He was often stuck in conference rooms at least 12 hours a day, allowed out only for bathroom breaks as meals were ordered in, and then had to continue working after the meetings were over.

He did not get enough sleep and ate horrible food ordered in practically every meal and never got to work out. It was awful for his health. Billing 2400 seemed like vacation in comparison.

He's lying to you. No client is paying for 12+ hrs a day for "weeks at a time."

Incorrect. I used to do large transactional work at a BigLaw and those deals frequently required 4-5 days a week at the client site all day, drafting at night and on weekends to prep for the next days' meetings. I would easily bill 260-280 a month, and some months were worse. My "best" month during my time in BigLaw hell was 317.

I did one deal where the closing negotiations were a week-long marathon where both teams went to the clients' offices and ran meetings around the clock, and we had rooms at the next door hotel where people would shower and nap.

It's bad for your health and I'm very glad to be out of it.

But, yes, clients do pay for 12+ hours a day for weeks at a time because the legal fees are dwarfed by the value of the deal.

This woman's husband is in litigation I'm fairly sure, so again, I call bullshit. I know corporate work is a completely different beast, but im super doubtful this happened so consistently in litigation.

[Anonymous]

Yes, litigation. It was a nearly year long settlement conference for a deal worth billions of dollars. The client's In house counsel or other employees were often at the hotel working alongside them so knew they weren't lying about hours.

Thank god we didn't have a kid then.