Is a college degree the waste of time and money that some people say it is?

[Anonymous]

A person with a business degree says, "How can I get paid when it works?"
A person with a finance degree says, "How much do you need to borrow to get it to work?"
A person with a degree in science says, "How does it work?"
A person with a degree in philosophy says, "Why does it work?"
A person with a degree in theology says, "Who makes it work?"
A person with a degree in mathematics says, "How many ways will it work?"
A person with a degree in liberal arts says, "Would you like fries with that?"
A person with a psychology degree says, "Why do you want fries with that?"

[Anonymous]

A person with an associates in medical technologies can pull in more than an liberal arts major (without graduate school in law or something completely different).

If you can break into medical sales you can easily pull in 160-250k +

[Anonymous]

Let me let you in on a little secret: with very few exceptions where there is defined entry point for a job requiring a certain level of professional certification and defined skills, what you study in college and what you actually do in the end for a living can be totally unrelated. I was a Political Science major in college (late got a grad degree in international affairs). What I do now is international marketing and export business development. Everything I do for my work life today I actually learned on the job. What I got in college was the ability to think critically, write well and be able to hold a viable conversation on just about any topic with anyone in any filed. Grad school, in the end, was more about building the connections that got me my next level job. While I indeed improved my foreign language skilss. it was the connections along with my own pluck and a good deal of luck that has made me the successful person I am today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I each grew up in poverty, in a family where no one had attended college and blue collar jobs were the norm. Thanks to hard work, ambition, and a good deal of luck, we were able to end up middle class with decent white collar careers. Our HHI is comfortable, but we never really earned enough to save a college fund for our daughter. However, we were determined that somehow we would make college happen for her if that's what she wanted. We've always read voraciously and valued higher education, and we have tried to pass those values on to her.

She is 19 now and a freshman in college. Aside from some small scholarships, the bulk of her tuition has been paid via loans. She will graduate in debt, but with a degree. We plan to help pay off those loans to the best of our ability, but sometimes it scares us that the amount owed is going to be sky high -- between our daughter and us, it will take years.

So my question for you all is, do you really believe that a college degree is that important in today's American culture? So often I read opinions to the contrary -- that graduating with a mountain of debt is foolish and that if you have to take out loans to attend college you shouldn't bother wasting your time. Thoughts, please?

(Please don't flame me... we were never taught money management skills and I'm sure we have made mistakes over the years that led to us having to take out student loans, but we have done the best we could and are very proud that she is going to be a first generation college graduate; in fact, one of the scholarships was for just that reason but it came nowhere near close to paying the full tuition bill.)

How much debt are we talking about?

Do I think the 4-year, residential college experience and education is extremely valuable and desirable? Yes.

Do I think it is worth any price? No, I don't.

I work with some young people who owe close to $100K for their undergraduate educations. Total lunacy. I would sooner cut my kid's hand off than allow him to saddle himself with that kind of debt.

Personally, I would not allow my child to take on more than about $20k in loans, give or take. If that meant community college, or living at home while attending George Mason or Marymount, so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on what kind of degree they are getting (most humanities degrees are pointless unless from specific top schools) and what they want to do later in life. I know several people who didn't go to college and who are very successful. I know several people who went to college and are struggling to find steady employment in their field 5 years later.

I don't think it is neither foolish nor wise, I think there are a lot of questions that have to be answered first before judgment can be made.

I disagree and this is one of the most pathetic things I keep reading. Either knowledge for knowledge's sake is worth it or it isn't; the school shouldn't matter.

Knowledge for knowledge's sake is a LUXURY. Always has been, always will be. Doesn't mean it's not "worth it" just that few can afford it.

[Anonymous]

In many cases, a college degree shows employers that you have the persistence and foresight to invest four years in improving your critical thinking and writing skills, as well as picking up some generic skills in finance, analyzing data, or another area.

Employers appreciate a college degrees for these reasons, and the result is that college grads have more opportunities. Employers know that college won't teach you to build their particular widget, because it doesn't.

(Note, things are different for STEM, finance and some other majors, or if you are going on to grad school.)

[Anonymous]

It sounds like you have significant concerns about this investment. Why don't you talk to your daughter about your concerns - maybe she shares them and would prefer the trade school route?

[Anonymous]

I don't know about that. I graduated in 2008 and know quite a few comm/liberal arts people who are struggling to find employment of any type. And I know several non college educated people pulling in 80K-120K a year (which is considered a good salary where I now live)

While we all know people like this (I graduated in 2010, so I'm not an old person who has no clue), statically, what I said previously is unequivocally true. Of course we all know the unemployed liberal arts majors and the person without a degree who makes six figures, but in aggregate, these are outliers. Someone with a college degree earns on average 17K a year more than someone without a degree, and is four times less likely to be unemployed. For our generation, the gap between the wages of those with and without a degree has increased even more. In the past twenty years, the gap has been growing.

While people love to talk about how college can be a waste, if you look at the data, it is a much larger risk to not get a degree at all. While certainly some majors are more lucrative than others, not everyone is cut out to be an engineer. Of course, some talented people will find a way to make it without a degree--I certainly know some talented programmers who are like this--I think it's important to recognize that they are outliers.

[Anonymous]

OP,

This confirms that yes a college degree is an important investment.
http://www.wtop.com/346/3560791/Widest-earnings-gap-for-college-grads-in-48-years

[Anonymous]

Without a doubt a college degree is essential. I would also argue that it is important if you are planning on being part of the upper middle class. I would highly discourage my kids from marrying someone who didn't graduate from college and I think they would be unlikely to date someone who only graduated from HS. There are very very few professional jobs that don't require a college degree. In upper middle class circles everyone goes to college, except a very few outliers. You also learn skills like persistence, follow through, responsibility, and you grow up. It's a shame that college is so expensive and that people go into debt, but if you want to be a white collar professional and have the maximum doors open to you, there is no alternative.

[Anonymous]

Statistically, people with college degrees earn more than people without them.

But I look at my cousin's ex-husband -- he was the first in his family to go to college, but when he got out with a BS in chemistry, he didn't want to do the kinds of jobs that required his degree (=working in a lab). He wound up going into sales, and he felt pretty bitter about his degree.

My husband, has a similar story -- he has a college degree (BA in history) but works in a field that doesn't require one. BUT, he really enjoys what he studied, and to this day (20-plus years after graduation) it adds to his quality of life. He doesn't feel bitter at all.

I, OTOH, have a BA in English, and I work in publishing, which I love. So definitely not a waste for me. (But note that my first job out of school was answering phones. My parents are happy now, but they were a little worried the first couple of years.)

It really depends on what your daughter wants to do (or think she wants to do) once she gets out. If she already knows what she wants to do, and it's not a field that requires a degree, then a college degree might be a waste -- unless she really loves what she's studying, in which case, it still might be worth it for her.

I will say that, in this area more than most, a BA in a random field (English, communincations, poli sci) can get you started with a decent job that will lead to something better.

[Anonymous]

Yes, statistically people with college degrees earn more, but statistically those are also kids from wealthier upper class homes who had significant parental support.

If you are paying it all on your own, then no, it is not worth it.

I know an architect who had a parent pay for college and at graduation went to work in his fathers firm and inherited it later.

If he had to pay his way through college with no support or a guaranteed job from daddy, then it would not have been worth it

[Anonymous]

One thing I would encourage your daughter to do is keep applying for as many scholarships for which she qualifies. Here's more:
http://thefamilyceoblog.com/

[Anonymous]

PP, you are talking anecdotally here, not based on statistics. What the statistics show is that for the vast majority of college graduates, the return is well worth the investment. I would tend to stick with the statistics and not based on various isolated anecdotes. By the way, that is one of the skills that you learn in college - how to read, digest, interpret and analyze large amounts of data so that you are making informed decisions.

Does this mean that everyone is cut out for or needs to go to college to be successful? No, of course not. However, I am hedging my bets. I have two college degrees in supposedly "worthless" majors and I am earning 2 1/2 times the median national average income. Did I earn that right out of school? No.

FYI, here is some of the types of jobs that are available for an English major (which I am not), just to counter the belief that someone with an English degree is "unemployable."

<div>Popular Careers for English Majors</div><table><tr><td style="vertical-align:top"></td><td style="vertical-align:top">
Methodology
Jobs ranked by popularity among graduates. Annual pay for Bachelors graduates without higher degrees from all colleges. See full methodology for more.</td></tr></table>

[Anonymous]

Honestly, this is a no brainer. What company or organization will hire you if you only went to HS. If you want a blue collar job, sure, but the pay is usually not very good.