NY cutting gifted programs due to lack of diversity
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Anonymous
Yes, we looked at it. DCPS started offering a "SEM" program at two schools last year - which puts some existing things under a new moniker, but even that is not a "G&T" program and even DCPS acknowledges it isn't - for G&T, DCPS suggests Johns Hopkins CTY. But unfortunately, at a cost of $1000 and up per individual class, CTY is a bit much for many of us to afford. http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Learn+About+Schools/Academic+Offerings/SEM+FAQ None of the schools where it's offered are IB for us. It's not exactly compelling at this point. |
Anonymous
"Failing the brightest kids in DCPS"? Really? Get a grip. |
Anonymous
The problem is that when NY did do interval testing, no kids were dropped. Apparently parents created major administrative headaches trying to prove that their dear darling should still be considered gifted. It became an administrative headache. Basically it just entrenched early privilege. |
Anonymous
The whole "poor people just need a library" to compete with rich kids might have held water back in the 80's but there are now so many families gaming the system and a whole cottage industry of companies that help prep 4 years to pass a g and t test that poor families couldn't compete. that said maybe dcps should model itself off mcps or fcps and create some gifted centers at schools with low enrollment. Then they'd like get more economic diversity in their school |
Anonymous
| DCPS is failing the brightest students. Why else are they leaving elem DCPS schools in 4th grade for Latin and Basis? Unless you IB for deal, parents who care about academic rigor bail on other DCPS by end of elem school. It's ignorant to think all students academic needs can be met in one classroom. |
Anonymous
I don't think your "so many families gaming the system" argument holds water. There are many aspects of an IQ test that cannot be "gamed" and any gains that can be learned through test prep will be modest at best. A normal kid with 100 IQ will not be able to get a score of 145 through test prep. The far bigger issue is that many poor families do not even avail themselves of the many options that are already available to them - some of which we have here in DC are the best in the world. As such, what good would any additional enrichment do? |
Anonymous
Except many gifted and talented programs don't use just IQ to prove gifted-ness. There's usually several tests like the non verbal assessments, cognitive assessments. Go to the AAP forum of this board and tell me there aren't parents trying to game the students by having them do test prep, tested independently if they didn't like the kid's first results. The same thing is happening in NYC and probably all over the place. |
Anonymous
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The fact that Latin and Basis draw people shows that a challenging middle school, not necessarily gifted but aimed somewhere way above the lowest common denominator. If Latin can't take anyone other than who the lottery serves them, it shows that a challenging school is a good idea and that it could work without test-in and such divisive things.
Take a space and put a program in like this. I kind of think this is what Chancellor Henderson meant when she made her remarks about middle schools. A charter knockoff. Like take the Meyer space now that Cardozo's out of there and set up DCPS Challenge Middle School and put in a clone of a top suburban middle school program, lottery entry only. |
Anonymous
| I think there was just a thread on here last week about how DCPS was putting in Junior Great Books programs for advanced students in their elementary schools, or had already done so. That was being done as part of providing students who need more academic challenge with what they need but not necessarily labeling kids as gifted or not. |
Anonymous
First of all, the AAP forum is irrelevant, because this is a DC thread, check the title: "DC Public and Public Charter Schools" and AAP is meaningless in DC because there are no similar options available here in DC. If you are talking about Fairfax or elsewhere, then why are you even posting here? For our part, we're in, what, according to DCUM is a "well regarded, highly sought after" top DC school with a student who's in the top 5% of high performers there (who did test with high IQ, not that it ever got us anything because DC doesn't offer anything for G&T students) - and we know a lot of families of the other top performers there as well, and virtually none do much if any outside enrichment courses as you are trying to suggest - if anything at all, we (and most other families we know) just use some free online content like Khan Academy, we go to the library, we go to the museums, we let DC explore curiosities, and that's about it. No expensive "prep", camps or outside classes. Frankly, we can't afford it and would prefer to save for DC's eventual college. Secondly, even if someone were to try and boost IQ scores through prep, or getting an independent test result, any gains would be minimal. Even a gain of 10 points would be an unrealistic expectation. Maybe Fairfax has some parents who are a little nuts like that but I hardly think what goes on in the AAP thread is any meaningful indication of anything other than that a handful of nutcase angst-filled posters exist on DCUM. And, "trying to game the system" doesn't necessarily translate into "successfully gaming the system". No amount of test prep will meaningfully boost little Johnny Average's IQ into the gifted range. Thirdly, to what ends? It ultimately just ends up putting the student on a more demanding and challenging path, with a lot more work and a lot higher expectations involved. It's not as though you just get a medal for achievement, barriers are removed, a red carpet is unfurled, and somehow everything is suddenly magically better for the student. And fourth, you didn't address the question - if low-SES families aren't even going to the library or museums or making use of the wealth of things they already have available to them, do you seriously think adding something more will somehow change anything? |
Anonymous
Is that it? Or was the earlier PP thinking of one or more other services? |
Anonymous
Is there anything else? The only things they tout as even remotely relating to G&T are the things that have already been discussed here - Junior Great Books, AP classes, SEM et cetera. http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Learn+About+Schools/Academic+Offerings If there's something else, it's a well kept secret. |
Anonymous
| PP--what else do you need? Advanced Placement courses, SEM, Junior Great Books, it looked like it mentioned some other advanced reading program too on that link. Also it mentioned IB schools at elementary, middle, and high school levels throughout DCPS. The thing it looks like they're missing to me is mainly the scale of programs. There should be SEM at all schools, not just those ones. But are people just not happy because their kid isn't getting the label of "gifted" likethey would in Fairfax or Montgomery? |
Anonymous
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I could care less about the label. What's important is that the students get the support and level of academic challenge that's appropriate to their level of capability.
SEM, as implemented in DCPS, appears to just be in-class differentiation. Historically, differentiation at DCPS has been in name only, they teach to the middle and ignore everyone else. The majority of teachers cannot do differentiation well. Even so, DCPS does not implement the full SEM model, they only do a few small pieces. There's no real opportunity in DCPS for acceleration. Maybe it's a start - but it's a very small one and they have very far to go if they want to attract or retain students. |
Anonymous
| I don't think being top 5% according to DCCAS is likely a high bar, isn't it comparing only to other urban school systems? |