Achievement gaps and gifted & talented or test-in programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course genetics matter but kids cannot fully access their full potential without a stable beginning. The point is to not write off poor kids with the "not everyone can be Einstein" before seeing what they are fully capable of. Why can't we get everyone to a point where they can feel stable and cared for so that they can concentrate on school?

Right, not everyone is genius material-we come in all varieties. My own kids are all generally bright but one is a go-getter, one is lazy and the other just has things fall into her lap-same genetics, same environment-different levels of achievement. But because they are well nourished, well rested, are allowed to follow their interests and have their individual difficulties pointed out and worked on, we get to see what their potential really is.

I have worked in schools for years, special ed/regualr ed/privileged/diverse etc. What we see often are kids who come to school from a chaotic background. They come to school and experience some stability/routine, get food, have adults talk to them, care for them, help them, but they are not really ready to fully access all the academics yet, they are just working off the chaos. Just my opinion, but I have seen it, worked with it, been frustrated by it for years.

I agree with you, PP. I am compassionate and believe in social justice.

However, there is only so much a school can do to dampen the effects of a chaotic home life. I firmly believe that, in many cases, the Herculean efforts of teachers, counselors, etc. on behalf of these children are wasted. In the absence of fundamental changes at home, there is little that can be done at school. Sure, the kids can have a warm meal or two, but will that have a meaningful impact on their lives?

I am not advocating that DCPS write these children off. On the contrary, I would advocate for a CFSA-DCPS partnership, in which DCPS opens a number of public boarding schools to serve these children and CFSA uses its authority to place children in these boarding schools until the parent(s) get(s) her(their) act(s) together.

Imagine how dramatically the outcomes for these kids would improve if overnight they moved from a chaotic environment to one in which they received three healthy meals per day, 8 to 10 hours of sleep per night, a complete wardrobe, preventive medical & dental care, glasses when needed, teachers to help with homework, a caring to read to them at bedtime and tuck them in, etc.

Its much easier to bear children than to raise them well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course genetics matter but kids cannot fully access their full potential without a stable beginning. The point is to not write off poor kids with the "not everyone can be Einstein" before seeing what they are fully capable of. Why can't we get everyone to a point where they can feel stable and cared for so that they can concentrate on school?

Right, not everyone is genius material-we come in all varieties. My own kids are all generally bright but one is a go-getter, one is lazy and the other just has things fall into her lap-same genetics, same environment-different levels of achievement. But because they are well nourished, well rested, are allowed to follow their interests and have their individual difficulties pointed out and worked on, we get to see what their potential really is.

I have worked in schools for years, special ed/regualr ed/privileged/diverse etc. What we see often are kids who come to school from a chaotic background. They come to school and experience some stability/routine, get food, have adults talk to them, care for them, help them, but they are not really ready to fully access all the academics yet, they are just working off the chaos. Just my opinion, but I have seen it, worked with it, been frustrated by it for years.

I agree with you, PP. I am compassionate and believe in social justice.

However, there is only so much a school can do to dampen the effects of a chaotic home life. I firmly believe that, in many cases, the Herculean efforts of teachers, counselors, etc. on behalf of these children are wasted. In the absence of fundamental changes at home, there is little that can be done at school. Sure, the kids can have a warm meal or two, but will that have a meaningful impact on their lives?

I am not advocating that DCPS write these children off. On the contrary, I would advocate for a CFSA-DCPS partnership, in which DCPS opens a number of public boarding schools to serve these children and CFSA uses its authority to place children in these boarding schools until the parent(s) get(s) her(their) act(s) together.

Imagine how dramatically the outcomes for these kids would improve if overnight they moved from a chaotic environment to one in which they received three healthy meals per day, 8 to 10 hours of sleep per night, a complete wardrobe, preventive medical & dental care, glasses when needed, teachers to help with homework, a caring to read to them at bedtime and tuck them in, etc.

Its much easier to bear children than to raise them well.

Yes, which is why free and easily available birth control should be provided. It's a lot cheaper to stop unwanted pregnancies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will we have to close the achievement gaps across demographics and class before we can implement top quality DCPS options to draw in high quality students?

The achievement gap has proven stubbornly hard to close and probably reflects fundamental social problems that cannot be addressed by education alone. Thus, if closing the achievement gap is a condition precedent to serving the needs of high quality students, the needs of those student will sadly continue to go unmet.

Or there are fundamental differences in the abilities of the different groups. I think this will become clear one way or another in the next 15-20 years as genetic testing/analysis progresses.

We'll, if social intelligence is any indicator, I'd say your genetic group is fundamentally flawed...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will we have to close the achievement gaps across demographics and class before we can implement top quality DCPS options to draw in high quality students?

The achievement gap has proven stubbornly hard to close and probably reflects fundamental social problems that cannot be addressed by education alone. Thus, if closing the achievement gap is a condition precedent to serving the needs of high quality students, the needs of those student will sadly continue to go unmet.

Or there are fundamental differences in the abilities of the different groups. I think this will become clear one way or another in the next 15-20 years as genetic testing/analysis progresses.

We'll, if social intelligence is any indicator, I'd say your genetic group is fundamentally flawed...

Curious why you think that. Is it that you think it's not possible and that anybody who entertains the thought must be racist or is it that you think it's possible but simply something that people shouldn't talk about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reality is that you cannot create a white and Asian school in DC. Don't try to create something you won't be able to achieve. Setting the bar above the achievement gap too far makes this a non starter.

And let's be optimistic. If this gets going and we have success in closing achievement gaps in DC, we can do better.

But don't go asking for a school that will only serve a couple of DC's tribes, even if for good reason. Access, equality and fairness are politically important.

There are definitely more than enough kids in DC to fill a high performing school in DC. And, there are definitely enough parents who would be behind something like this in a heartbeat. The only thing lacking is the political will.

These kids currently DO NOT have access to a school that fully meets their needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reality is that you cannot create a white and Asian school in DC. Don't try to create something you won't be able to achieve. Setting the bar above the achievement gap too far makes this a non starter.

And let's be optimistic. If this gets going and we have success in closing achievement gaps in DC, we can do better.

But don't go asking for a school that will only serve a couple of DC's tribes, even if for good reason. Access, equality and fairness are politically important.

There are definitely more than enough kids in DC to fill a high performing school in DC. And, there are definitely enough parents who would be behind something like this in a heartbeat. The only thing lacking is the political will.

These kids currently DO NOT have access to a school that fully meets their needs.

Exactly. I guess it is not important for advanced learners to have access and equity to an education that truly meets their needs.

Also, who said anything about a white school or Asian school?? I do not care what color kids go to school with my kid. I only care about my kid truly being challenged and a safe, non-disruptive school environment. Sure such a school might skew white or Asian, but that does not mean we should not meet advanced learners needs who might also be black. Not everything is about race you know. Schools should try to support and identify disadvantaged kids for gifted prgramming early in their schooling. All kids should be provided solid instruction in reading and math which unfortunately has often not been provided in many cases in schools for the past several decades.

[Anonymous]

The white and Adian school is what you could create because of the achievement gap. Not by fiat. In effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The white and Adian school is what you could create because of the achievement gap. Not by fiat. In effect.

So what. I say continue to try and nourish all kids to that all might have a shot.


Are you saying that school should not meet the needs of advanced learners as long as their is an achievement gap? Why not try and meet the needs of those affected by the gap and everyone else including advanced learners?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The white and Adian school is what you could create because of the achievement gap. Not by fiat. In effect.

So what. I say continue to try and nourish all kids to that all might have a shot.


Are you saying that school should not meet the needs of advanced learners as long as their is an achievement gap? Why not try and meet the needs of those affected by the gap and everyone else including advanced learners?

The point isn't that this school shouldn't happen, it's that the powers that be in DC wouldn't allow it to happen based on the expected demographics.

[Anonymous]

What could realistically exist would set the bar to take the best students from every Ward. Do you see how a CM Barry or CM Alexander goes after this when entrance standards are set that no one in DCPS east of the Anacostia has tested high enough to qualify? A school in Chocolate City with token black students won't get off the ground.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you, PP. I am compassionate and believe in social justice.

However, there is only so much a school can do to dampen the effects of a chaotic home life. I firmly believe that, in many cases, the Herculean efforts of teachers, counselors, etc. on behalf of these children are wasted. In the absence of fundamental changes at home, there is little that can be done at school. Sure, the kids can have a warm meal or two, but will that have a meaningful impact on their lives?

I am not advocating that DCPS write these children off. On the contrary, I would advocate for a CFSA-DCPS partnership, in which DCPS opens a number of public boarding schools to serve these children and CFSA uses its authority to place children in these boarding schools until the parent(s) get(s) her(their) act(s) together.

Imagine how dramatically the outcomes for these kids would improve if overnight they moved from a chaotic environment to one in which they received three healthy meals per day, 8 to 10 hours of sleep per night, a complete wardrobe, preventive medical & dental care, glasses when needed, teachers to help with homework, a caring to read to them at bedtime and tuck them in, etc.

Its much easier to bear children than to raise them well.


I agree with you completely. I am the pp who talked about the chaos in the lives of the lower performing kids. Yes, schools can only do so much. As I mentioned, school is a place for these kids to experience calm and let their guard down a little. They are not fully available to learn. Yes, there is only so much teachers can do-I know this first hand.
I love the idea of HHS, Dept of social services or any other agency to partner with DCPS to help parents be parents. Maybe expand schools to be community centers where parents can come to be supported and to learn to be parents.
I think the idea of a dorm like living situation for teen aged moms and their babies where everyone can be helped to learn solid life skills and live a calm, stable healthy life. Our schools will improve when the lives of the children improve. Why can't we do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What could realistically exist would set the bar to take the best students from every Ward. Do you see how a CM Barry or CM Alexander goes after this when entrance standards are set that no one in DCPS east of the Anacostia has tested high enough to qualify? A school in Chocolate City with token black students won't get off the ground.

In other words, we have to deny all of DC's star academic performers an opportunity and either hold them back or chase them away to some other school system either in Virginia or private, just because some asshole DC politician is too concerned about counting faces and seeing what color they are. That's what you are saying.

What a bunch of sickening BULLSHIT!