Middle school math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

"Notorious" is not a valid statement for statistical analysis. It is from personal experience as a university instructor, plus the same for my wife, and a good number of colleagues. Many homeschoolers have had to re-take Precal, even though they "aced" the course in Saxon. Some really do well, but they are the exception, not the norm. I wouldn't have the same concern with a well-trained teacher. Saxon does problem solving / application very well, at least through Precal (Advanced Math). I don't dislike it -- I just recognize its limitations.

Saxon himself is changing his curriculum in response to the shortcoming (he recognizes it). It's really obvious if you look at the material. It is structured to provide an application or concept each day, and lots of review. A theoretical derivation requires focus from time to time, and Saxon (at least, the old edition) doesn't allow for that. The teachers have to make up for it.

Basis still uses the old edition, which is more oriented towards application and testing skills. The teachers usually do provide the theory as needed, particularly in the "higher" math classes. Those kids are doing just fine from what we can tell. We will keep watching, though, just to be sure.

Yes, but those homeschoolers who "aced" Saxon pre-calculus may not have done the curriculum correctly since some have the false belief that it is OK to skip problems with Saxon math or to do every other problem. Saxon is designed in such a way that it is very important to do every single problem. Or they skip the weekly tests or do not avail themselves of instructional videos that go along with Saxon. Or they only correct every other problem or do not figure out why they get problems wrong. Or perhaps those homeschoolers were not so good in math as many public school students are as well. OTOH, I have heard of many success stories with Saxon math among homeschoolers, and BASIS has had fantastic results with Saxon.

As for John Saxon, he is dead so he is not revising his books. The publisher that bought his books have done revisions which I am skeptical of since many newer textbooks tend not to give adequate practice or teach math in convoluted ways such as Everyday Math.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I should have said, "they," not, "he." The classic edition and higher maths should be supplemented for students needing theory.

I did say that Basis is doing well with it, but they do have math majors teaching math. DS comes home with worksheets where saxon is lacking (eg, functions and determinants in alg 2). This is precisely how I feel saxon should be used. I just can't help being concerned, because I am not in control of who will be teaching precal next year, and precal theory is critical for a proper derivation of the calculus.

I am also sure that some homeschoolers are doing fine. The material is not wrong, unlike some "approved" high school texts. Certainly some concepts are being overlooked by these kids and/or their parents. I just have only come across a handful that did not require some remediation, and dozens who did. Their calculation skills were always strong, and their theory was always weak. It tells me that saxon is excellent at application. The bite-size approach seems to work well for that, while limiting opportunities for deeper development.

I found a review which matches my thoughts very closely: http://cathyduffyreviews.com/math/calculus-saxon.htm. Mostly positive, with a couple of big caveats.