Interviewing design & build firms for doing extensive renovations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here, just to bust into this discussion a bit - we're getting ready to start interviewing folks (DB firms and architects) on our major addition, and I have no idea what kinds of questions to ask. Does anyone have suggestions for a place to start a conversation/interview?

For contractors and DB firms: How many jobs do you do a year? What size jobs (some firms do a mix of kitchens and baths and major jobs in order to round out their schedule)? How many employees do you have, and what trades are employees versus subs? (A lot of contractors will have at least one trade in house, most have some if not all carpentry inhouse.) References, references, and more references. Copy of insurance certificate (you shouldn't have to ask for this, it should be given to you up front)

Architects: Typical approach (full service or fee for service)? Typical project budget? Design philosophy (e.g. environmental, traditional, modern, etc.) References references references.

[Anonymous]

Thanks 9:38!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We just finished a $300k plus renovation and came in just $3,000 over budget. The more work you put in ahead of time, the more accurate the budget will be. We had researched and knew what appliances we wanted, the materials we would use for counters (kitchen and bath) and floors before we sent the job out for bid. A contractor can present a very favorable bid if there are a large number of "allowances" that bear no reality to what you will choose. For instance, we looked at cabinet knobs that cost as little as $2 and as much as $15 a piece. If the contractor provided an allowance based on $2, our final selections which were in the $7 range would have been off. Same for the counter-tops. You can get a good price on granite right now, but we wanted soapstone. If the price had been based on granite, we would have needed a change order because soapstone currently costs a bit more. I was very clear that nothing makes me feel like I am being ripped off more than getting a price that turns out to be much lower than the actual cost.

The one thing I would have done differently, however, was to keep a tighter rein during the initial design process. There were a number of "you know what would look great" things added that when we got the initial bids, the costs were much higher than I wanted and I had to remind everyone about what we initially wanted to accomplish with the renovation. It is was too easy to get caught up in the idea of adding a powder room to the first floor and redoing the entry floor when you are doing the initial drawings. Resist the urge. Be flexible, but keep the goals of the project in mind. It will save you time.

And be honest with the arch or designer. My wife waited to admit that she wanted to move the shower from one wall to another and move the vanities in the bathroom until after we had obtained our building permit. I am glad she finally said something before we broke ground, but I wish she had spoken up sooner.

soapstone is terrible you made a huge mistake

[Anonymous]

I have heard Cook Brothers is a good firm for Arlington/FC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Builder-man here...

main feedback is hire who you trust and if you can't trust the allowances then you perhaps you should not trust the contractor.

And, I do get tired of hearing Architects marketing that they need to manage the bid process (for a fee) and the builder because the builder will cut corners. Managing the bid process is an income stream for them; having to redesign because of designs that exceed budget is an income stream; and managing construction is an income stream.

They should sell their value; not that the client needs protection from a builder who will cut corners. Well, who was paid to manage a competitive bid situation ? Who is making it about lowest dollars. You didn't hire architect based on low bid, why should you hire builder ? And you don't think that their buddies don't get last look ? BS. Happens all the time...

If they had any balls they would just do design build themselves - but ask of any of them and they will tell you the building part is a pain in the ass. So they don't want to do it but they begrudge the builder making money on their plans. In truth, we should go back to the master builder concept that existed before architects separated from builders. And that is why Design Build is actually superior. You get a better product, because a master builder takes it from design to implementation. So me, personally, I would go Design Build every day. And that's from a builder....

Yes & No (again)... we had a good architect and a good contractor. It was worth it for us to have someone who knew more than I do as the arbiter of what can be substituted and can be changed and what can't... Construction oversight fees from architect were not that much in the scheme of things and definitely ensured that a few things were re-done or caught early (even with a quality builder with integrity). We had no redesigns because of exceeding budget and no change orders due to errors or oversight by either architect or contractor.

We had no serious issues to resolve because architect, builder and we were on top of things and coordinating and communicating from start to finish.

I respect your experience but I don't believe that you or any particular builder are the sole authority who I want to trust with a couple/few hundred thousand $ of work where it's builder's view vs. mine. I want an experienced second opinion, in this case, the architect. Some things they raised we said were not an issue and were fine or we worked out between the builder, architect and us. Others we asked the builder to rethink or stick to original plan.

Your last point assumes -- again, with respect to your experience -- that you, or any particular builder are, in fact, a "Master Builder." Since there is no such certification or guarantee, your point is a good one in theory but it's not realistic to think it will fit all builders and all situations in the real world (IMO/ IME).

If I was a builder I would agree with you 100%. As a customer/owner, I've seen the value of having the oversight of an architect working with a quality builder (remembering that "value" does not mean "cheapest price.").

Builder here - you seem like a good client and I like your point about a built in arbitrator. And my point about the Master Builder may have been misconstrued. In all actuality the Master Builder would be the architect not the builder in today's terms. As with most fields construction went through specialization and as part of that design was separated from production. I personally do think that was the best path; so my comment was not that I am a master builder but rather that we should still have that construct.
My frustration that you witnessed is how the architects, especially today, position their services. They should position it in terms of aesthetics, knowledge, and quality of drawings. I know a lot of very smart architects. But invariably for the most part they sell their value as being required to supervisor the builder lest they cut corners. Well, they set up a competitive bid process that rewards disingenuous behavior. More guys have stayed home because they gave a customer an honest assessment than have won the work. And that fosters an environment of either change orders or a cut in the overall finished product. But architects love the bid process - it is a significant source of income, makes the contractors beholden to them for work (ask an architect for a sketch one time and see how they feel about free services), and if they price is too high the construction drawings normally don't get completed so builders are motivated to keep initial estimates low. to So, my take is that they should compete for the whole process on their abilities not the need to police errant contractors.

And the irony is alot of qualified builders, in normal times, won't play - they don't bid so in reality the home owner is not drawing from the complete pool of applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just finished a $300k plus renovation and came in just $3,000 over budget. The more work you put in ahead of time, the more accurate the budget will be. We had researched and knew what appliances we wanted, the materials we would use for counters (kitchen and bath) and floors before we sent the job out for bid. A contractor can present a very favorable bid if there are a large number of "allowances" that bear no reality to what you will choose. For instance, we looked at cabinet knobs that cost as little as $2 and as much as $15 a piece. If the contractor provided an allowance based on $2, our final selections which were in the $7 range would have been off. Same for the counter-tops. You can get a good price on granite right now, but we wanted soapstone. If the price had been based on granite, we would have needed a change order because soapstone currently costs a bit more. I was very clear that nothing makes me feel like I am being ripped off more than getting a price that turns out to be much lower than the actual cost.

The one thing I would have done differently, however, was to keep a tighter rein during the initial design process. There were a number of "you know what would look great" things added that when we got the initial bids, the costs were much higher than I wanted and I had to remind everyone about what we initially wanted to accomplish with the renovation. It is was too easy to get caught up in the idea of adding a powder room to the first floor and redoing the entry floor when you are doing the initial drawings. Resist the urge. Be flexible, but keep the goals of the project in mind. It will save you time.

And be honest with the arch or designer. My wife waited to admit that she wanted to move the shower from one wall to another and move the vanities in the bathroom until after we had obtained our building permit. I am glad she finally said something before we broke ground, but I wish she had spoken up sooner.

soapstone is terrible you made a huge mistake

Nope. We love it. We actually cook I'm our kitchen so it works well for us. Let me guess, you have granite.